So there I was, trundling along in stop and go traffic. Doing about 15-20mph, applied the brakes, and BAM! Something broke in the rear with a LOUD clanging banging noise. I still had brakes and steering, so I worked my way over to the shoulder and stopped the car. For those in the know, 287 and I-20 in Fort Worth is a very busy merge with the nearest phone being a good hour round trip hike. So, I get out of the car and go around to the right rear, and see that my tire is deflating as I watch. Within a minute it was completely flat. That wouldn't have cause the noise, though. So, I looked in through the wheel and see the shiny ragged metal edges of what appears to be a broken rotor.

I don't have a cell phone, and I'm not leaving the car, so I sit there for half an hour listening to the radio, hoping that one of the 50-70 cars that were passing me every minute (it's 6 lanes wide heavy traffic) would either stop to let me use a phone, or maybe would call in a disabled motorist. No luck.

So, after a while I realize that I would have to get myself out of there. I recalled that the brake pedal didn't go to the floor when I stopped, that meant that the pistons and caliper were still intact. So, I proceed to remove the wheel on the side of highway and this is what I saw:

As you can see, I didn't have much to work with. I took the smaller piece of the broken rotor, which was still in the caliper, and used the electrical cord from a trouble light I had in the trunk to secure it to the caliper. I also secured the top of the caliper to the knuckle. Since this caliper will no longer be seeing any braking or rotational forces, the wire will hold up just fine.

The caliper itself is trashed, you can see the top mount is broken off. The bottom bolt was nowhere to be found, I presume that it came out. I took the top bolt and used it to bolt the bottom of the caliper to the knuckle. The knuckle is trashed, the upper caliper mount is bent. The wheel is broken, that's why my tire went flat:

I took the remnant of the rotor hat and used a hammer to break off the rest of the edge, leaving a disk. This served as a spacer so that the emergency spare didn't rub the caliper.

The rotor piece in the caliper keeps the pistons from coming out, that way I have full brake pressure to the remaining three brakes. Oh, I'm not happy with this, but if I didn't get this done I'd still be out there tonight.

Here it is ready to hit the road:

Meanwhile I went to the shop and grabbed a spare rear wheel and took it and the broken one to a tire shop to get the tire swapped over. I ground the ragged edge of the hat off and put it back in as a spacer for the moment.

I just got back from the junkyard where I pulled the right strut, knuckle, and manual axle off an '88 coupe. I didn't particularly want the strut and axle, but didn't have the means to separate them there. That cost me $71 including tax, plus the $5 for the tire swap. I'd previously bought calipers and rotors off of another wrecked '88, so I have to run a caliper to a shop tomorrow and get it cleaned up, and I have to get the knuckle off the parts I bought today and get it swapped into my Formula.

Man, what a day....

JazzMan

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 02-23-2004).]

Hey Jazz what could have caused the rotor to do that? Ive never heard of that happening accept in Nascar on a short track.

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I have no idea. My best guess is that the lower caliper bolt came out, why I don't know, and the caliper got snagged by the wheel, that would have bent it inward, and since I was braking, the inward bending would have broken the rotor. Or, the rotor could have had some defect in it and just decided to let go at that particular moment, possibly by fracturing around the base of the hat. Or... I have no idea.

I'll be checking (and relubing) the remainder of my caliper slide pins though.

JazzMan

To me, it sounds like the lower caliper bolt was not torqued down properly (I don't remember, but something tells me they're supposed to be torqued to 140ft-lbs... Which most people don't bother to do... and came loose, the caliper hit the wheel, grabbed the rotor, snapped the one piece off, the rest tried to continue turning and broke off the rotor hat at the easiest point of stress. Which of course, is a directional transition (horizontal to veritcle) in this case.

I hope you can get it fixed up nicely, and be on your way soon, that really sucks.

Good luck!

I wonder how long you would have had to wait before loved ones missed you & sent out a search party?

Anyway, that's a pretty ingenious fix. You would have spent the 75 bucks on a tow easily. Keep the pics, that's one for the books!

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Dang. When you break down, you do it proper!

Sorry for your misfortune. Neat that you took pics to show us.

Well I thought i personally experienced everything that could mess up on an 88 but that is all new for sure.

Glad you got it home. Glad that as bad as that was the fix is not a huge deal.

Good luck

Nothing like that has ever happened to ANYONE I know before!congrats! you are now a #1 in my bad repair book.j/k Very strange! must be a Dallas thing

I have two old rotors if you need one!!
lmk

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98 3800SC GTP motor, 5sp.
custom hood,trunk,side scoops,IRM front spoiler, dk.Shadow Grey

Good to hear you got out of it without having to get towed in! I have never (fingers crossed and knocking on wood) had to have a Fiero towed in for repairs, they always got me home. It pays to know your car. Sounds like a "one of a kind" incident and that you have things well under control.

Yeah, I've got AAA, Platinum no less with 3 free 100 mile tows, but no cellphone. After stewing in the car for half an hour I started to picture myself as being in the middle of the desert, that's when I started to think that I might be able to do something. Good thing I always carry my tools around with me, at least a basic enough set to deal with the brakes.

And I'm the one that torqued those bolts last spring when I did my brakes, so if indeed it was a bolt falling out that caused this, I've got nobody to blame but myself.

JazzMan

Yikes!

I have heard of two instances of 88 caliper bolts backing out. Both were on the same car (not mine, btw.)
Ever since then, I have used blue Loctite on my caliper bolts.

The only other broken rotor I have ever seen on a Fiero was the front hub/rotor on an 86 that skidded sideways into a curb, hard enough to break the transmission in half. Trashed the entire right side suspension, front and rear. Broke the front rotor into about three pieces, and bent the knuckle. I'll bet it made a hell of a noise.

Anyway...
You're very lucky that you weren't doing 65-70 MPH when this happened. Coulda made your day much worse.

...and you even had the presence of mind to take pics.

Thanks for sharing, and good luck.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe.

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-12-2003).]

I had a similar problem happen to me a while ago.

The only thing is that the upper bolt holding my caliper to the knuckle fell out

I heard a clank,and that was it until I applied the brakes, then *GRIIIIND* I was close to home, so I limped it home the 100 yards and then inspected it.

Unlike yours though, my rotor was fine. The only thing that happened was that the rotor ground two big grooves into the top part of the caliper. I got a new bolt, put it in and it worked fine. Unfortunately for you though, it didn't turn out that easy. I'm just glad it you didn't get hurt and made it home allright.

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Your new name is MacGyver!

All I can say is WOW
and you took pics too.

Kudos to you
Mr. MacGyver!

broke a leaf spring on a nissan patrol once halfway across the simpson desert..400 miles from the nearest house .i used a railway spike as a splint and exhaust u.brackets to hold it together..drove it for 3000 miles before i finally got it fixed properly..sometimes you just gotta use whats handy ..or hitch hike for a long ways.

If you get a cell phone, you can leave your camera and tools at home!

Very resourceful! Never seen anything like that...scary! Glad you're ok

Hey Jazz,

What time did this happen? I drive right by there twice a day going to/from work. Aren't there a couple of nuddie bars there you could of probably used there phone and enjoy that traffic.

toms...

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In your case, it looks like the caliper mounting broke and caused the damage.

Generally when you see a rotor fail in this fashion, one or both of the slider pins on the caliper have been siezed for some time. This stresses the rotor by pulling and/or pushing it laterally, until it ultimately fails.

Where did you buy the rotors?....Paul

JazzMan: Nice save! Glad no one was hurt.

Guys (& gals), this may be a chronic problem with '88 rear calipers!

JazzMan's is about the sixth '88 (including my own) that I have seen this problem on. Based on a very limited data sample, it seems to happen only to '88s and only to the rear calipers.

In my own case, I bought my Formula about two years ago. It had a bad engine, so I trailered it home from Arizona. It rolled off the trailer and into the shop just fine, but I soon noticed that while the car would roll forward easily, it would roll only a few inches back before locking up hard. Upon inspection, I found that the upper attach bolt for the left rear caliper was missing entirely, and the lower attach bolt was loose. From the wear on the threads (see picture), it looks like the remaining bolt had been loose for quite some time. Both attach bolts in the right rear caliper were loose as well.

Incidentally, this bolt did have evidence of thread locker on the threads before I cleaned it up.

Apparently, here is what happens: Both of the caliper attach bolts loosen, and one eventually backs out entirely. The dynamics due to friction between the rotor and pads ... going forward if the lower attach bolt has come out, going backwards if it's the upper bolt ... cause the caliper to pivot on the remaining attach bolt and wedge against the wheel. What happens next depends mainly upon how fast you're going.

In JazzMan's case, it was almost certainly the lower attach bolt that had backed out completely. Then when the caliper swung out and jammed against the wheel, the impact broke the wheel, the rotor, and finally the upper caliper mounting ear. There was a huge amount of energy released in a short amount of time, dissipated into a relatively small amount of material!

'88 drivers: Check your rear caliper attach bolts ASAP! Then let us know what you find, so we can all be safer.

For what it's worth, I now check my caliper attach bolts whenever I have a wheel off, and they have not loosened in the two years since I first encountered this problem.

- Marvin McInnis

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'88 Formula
Project Testostarossa
"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing."

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-14-2003).]

Marvin... thank you for the safety tip. (+) to you!

James, I'm glad you & car are okay. That looks like it could have caused an out of control condition. And nice jury rig to get home. Very creative AND exactly what I would expect from you.
*Friendly plug for James. He has his own side business doing Fiero repair.*

I gotta try & find some spare time this week to play with my waterpump. They are keeping me slammed at work. I haven't even popped the decklid yet.

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REMEMBER: stoplights synch'd for 35mph are also synch'd for 70mph.
(and for 140mph, now that I think about it.)

Thanks for the warning! I'll check that. I haven't taken my calipers off, though, so I imagine I'm ok. Last time I tried to, I couldn't budge the attach bolts.

I ended up splitting the caliper and removing the rotor to swap brake pads, rather than remove the caliper from the knuckle. After seeing this, I think that may become S.O.P. from now on.

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Jazzman, nice roadside repair! A little ingenuity and you're home where you can work on it properly. Very impressive work and I'm glad you weren't hurt or the damage wasn't worse.

thanks for the info. on my 88 coupe, I once had a rear caliper bolt come loose, but I noticed the change in sound almost immediately (a slight clunk when the brake was applied), and found the problem and tightened it up that night with no other mishap.
I wish I lived in a place where I could drop by a junk yard any old time and find an 88!!!

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88 4cyl 5spd & 88 Formula 5spd Formula is SOLD :( One day I'll have another...

Ok, scoped out my spare caliper and it looks servicable, no fluid or wetness around the piston plug or seals. Got the parts I bought yesterday at the wrecking yard disassembled tonight:

The long thing with the curved bit at the end is a tool I made to hold a hub while loosening the CV axle nut.

More progress tomorrow, need to find someone who can flycut a rotor.

JazzMan

I'd expect the same from you. Nice job. Bad luck!

Well, add mine to the list! Mine did that over the summer, but it was at low speed and it was the front right caliper. Bottom bolt backed out completely, the caliper then wedged between the wheel and the top bolt of the caliper and broke the caliper in half. Didnt do that much damage tho! It's all fixed now tho.

quote Originally posted by FieroMaster88: Well, add mine to the list! Mine did that over the summer, but it was at low speed and it was the front right caliper.

Another '88 all right, but it's the first front caliper I've heard of. Hmmmmm......

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-14-2003).]

Final status report: Decided not to cut the rotor as it is already at its minimum, and after bead blasting it actually looks pretty good. I painted the knuckle with POR-15 and the rotor with Eastwood's 1,500° silver, and installed them:

Here's the final broken part's tally:

Cracked wheel (previous pic posted), can be repaired, will TIG at school next semester.

Broken rotor (previous pic posted), junk.

Broken caliper, junk:

Bent knuckle, junk:

Here's a trick for installing the P-brake spring: I clamped it in a vice and ran three zip-ties through it to hold it compressed until I could connect the cable, then cut the ties.

All in all, considering that only seconds before this happened I was doing 70+ and when it happened I was in stop and go traffic, I got really, really lucky.

JazzMan

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 11-23-2003).]

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 11-23-2003).]

I just checked my sons 88 coupe rear caliper bolts, all four were loose, actually laying on the top of a bucket with all the other bolts I have off because I pulled the engine last night :^)

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Cracked wheel (previous pic posted), can be repaired, will TIG at school next semester.

Go ahead and weld your old wheel for practice if you want. But get a new wheel! We want you to stick around a while.

Good safety practice says to never repair a cracked cast alloy wheel. Even repaired, the old cracks are stress risers. In addition, there may be other microcracks you can't see. Either way, there is the possibility of crack propagation and future wheel failure, and there is no guarantee that the wheel will begin to leak air before it fails.

Incidentally, a damaged alloy wheel makes a really cool hanger for your garden hose. I have two of them from a Porsche 928, driven over a curb by the previous owner.

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'88 Formula
Project Testostarossa
"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing."

In the case of this wheel, the crack is fairly localized in the span between the beads and is not in a stressed location. I'm going to end-drill the crack to relieve the stress riser, then the TIG will serve only to make the wheel air-tight again. The wheel is in 99% cosmetic condition, and a new one is not available. Even used ones in this condition are prohibitively expensive. For that matter, I could even use epoxy to air-tight the crack.

JazzMan

I have 2 things to say:

1. Get yourself a cellphone! (preferably one with a camera attachment )

2. If I had to pick one person in the world to take on a long trip with me, I'm gonna pick you!

[This message has been edited by Jaygee79 (edited 11-23-2003).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Here's a trick for installing the P-brake spring: I clamped it in a vice and ran three zip-ties through it to hold it compressed until I could connect the cable, then cut the ties.

Cool!
Man... I sure coulda given my vocab a rest, if I'd known this trick.
Never would have thought that zip ties woulda held the sucker.

Great thread. Thanks for sharing. You were very, very lucky.