I started this post to gather comments from anyone that has done the Cadillac 4.5/4.9L swap or anyone like myself that plans to do one or even anyone who won't consider one.
As for the pluses IMO these are:
1. Best V8 for HP per $$ value. One of the more inexpensive swaps gaining popularity.
2. The Engine can be used with any Fiero tranny or the matching 4T60E.
3. 275 ft lbs of torque and great gas mileage in stock trim.
4. Aluminum block makes for very little added weight that will not upset the suspension or the handling
5. Fits Fiero engine compartment nicely without any cuts or modifications.
As for the minuses IMO these are:
1. Few performance modification possibilities exist. Even fewer speed parts are available
2. The engine is next to impossible to rebuild Most rebuilders won't touch this engine.
3. Unproven reliability record for "performance use"
4. Low 4500 RPM redline/ rev limiter in ECM also set low.
5. Hard to find running so that you can test and hear before buying.
6. Not a great breathing engine ( small valaves and small ports as a result it develops only 200HP.
In view of the above, I still believe that this swap has merit and I've been looking for a good used engine/tranny combo for quite some time. HOwever,since this swap is not for everyone, all comments both pro and con are welcome.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

I see only pluses.

Superchips and Fastchip both have chips for the cars to get rid of the rev and speed limiters with 15-20 hp and 22-30Ftlbs. gain. Tranny gear ratios are changable. Stock reliablity add 55 shot of NOS for the extra performance when you need it. I have the best freeflow Exhaust you could ask for. And only 35 Lbs added to the rear.

See thread for my build up. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/027460.html

Mine should be running by next week

------------------
Jesse Thomas
Founder ofVa Fiero Club
racer_jt@playhomes.net
4.9 Swap Has Begun

Hi Dennis,

This was the swap I planned for my 87 Coupe 5-speed.

Only one problem, I haven't been able to find a donor car (well that and the 87 Coupe getting stolen just before I got to put my big brake package on it).

I just found a complete 98 Lumina LTZ with 40K miles on it... $800 (semi up the tailpipe at a stop light). So, I'm going 3800 Series II, 4T65e, CD deck w/ steering wheel controls, maybe ABS even and going to attempt to keep ALL the OBD2 systems functional.

Of course... a day later, I get a customer in for a used vehicle inspection buying a 1998 Lincoln Navigator that is going to get rid of his 1991 Seville with 4.9L. He's looking to donate it to a charity so he can claim it's $4k book value. Shift linkage is only problem but apparently repairing that involves pulling the transmission. If I find out which charity gets it and if they are going to sell it, I'll post more info (unless I can buy it from them for a few hundred bucks :-> )

One of the worst parts of this swap is the integration of the cadillac systems, they are not happy missing inputs at all.

Second problem, parts are freaking expensive, I think I saw that rebuild kit is about a grand.

All the guys running 4.9l engines running GM's cooling supplement? (ie. stop leak)

I think it's a great swap bang for the buck IF you don't need to do a rebuild and especially if your going to use the transmission out of the cadillac also.

Dennis, you will love the 4.9 Its a really straight forward swap. I am working on 2 swaps right now with many lined up. ASG makes a 300hp 4.9 as well as a 250hp variant. I dont know if their claims of HP are true since they retain the stock cam and valvetrain.
My modded 2.8 made 197hp and 293 ft-lbs on the bottle. Caddy makes that stock and only has room to improve! I plan on a 65-85 shot on my 4.9 once I am finished with the install. Look for future dyno tests. Plus Mr Turbo.... I am sure you can come up with a home brewed turbo for the 4.9!
Give me a holler if you need any help. You do still have my #'s? BTW try www.car-part.com to find 4.9's in your area.

Steven

------------------
88 Fiero coupe 2.5 5 speed, Custom IHI RHB6 turbo equipped, gutted and track abused
88 Coupe Project "F-88" has begun....Classified TOP SECRET **your gonna love this**
88 Fiero Coupe 2.5/auto Not sure what I am going to do to this one!
87 Fiero GT 14.9/ 89mph **4.9 PFI swap in progress**
87 Fiero Coupe 91k miles
86 Fiero SE
88 Mazda RX-7 'vert SBC v8 383/T-5
Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.

i too am considering the 4.9 swap. the only things holding me back(other than time, money, and an engine) are gas mileage. I thought the 4.9 would be pretty poor, but you said in you pros that it gets great mileage. How great? 18-20mpg great? and is that with 4T60 or 4T60E(does it matter?)
sorry i have more questions than answers.
i think though, that with the growing popularity of this swap, things like wiring, and adding turbos and such will only become more and more documented.

------------------

quote Originally posted by fierce_gt: but you said in you pros that it gets great mileage. How great? 18-20mpg great? and is that with 4T60 or 4T60E(does it matter?)

Ed Parks says that his demo Fiero with the 4.9L with 4T60E matching Caddy tranny gets 27mpg all day long on the highway running on the cheap 87 octane. Around town is less of course, but apparently pretty good (I've been told better than the 2.8L with the original 3-spd auto).

Remember the Caddy 4.9L was designed to be an efficient engine with the power to move a Sedan deVille and so on while getting decent fuel economy. The Fiero is a heck of a lot lighter than the deVille and other Caddys so the 4.9 doesn't have to hardly work at all when driven casually around town compared to what it was doing pulling a Caddy luxo-cruiser.

Ken S.

quote Originally posted by kslish: Remember the Caddy 4.9L was designed to be an efficient engine with the power to move a Sedan deVille and so on while getting decent fuel economy.

AKA a Granny engine for toting around Retired folk to various golf courses in Florida. J/K

BTW Out of a twisted curiousity does any one know of anyone that used the pontiac 4.9 in a Fiero swap? not much in a HP gain (35 hp?) but maybe a bit more torque, are they a bolt up to the trannys??

[This message has been edited by GMGW3 (edited 04-30-2003).]

1985 GT with '91 4.9/4t60e and '2240 (caddy ECM)
The biggest pain in the A$$ is the wiring, I had no wiring/schematics abilities before this project and still have problems with reading them.
I followed the schematics and asked about a million questions, and when i turned the key it fired right up.
What i'm trying to say is that if i was able to do this, anybody can do it.

The negative: See above

The plusses are:
The sound comming from that flowmaster, not loud, just powerful.
Torque, torque, torque and more torque
The "i can't believe it fits" at the local inspection station
Torque, torque, torque and more torque
Gas mileage in town is the same as my old 2.8
Torque, torque, torque and more torque
Idle that fluctuates between 625 and 675RPM
Torque, torque, torque and more torque
4.9 runs cooler than the 2.8 did
And i almost forgot to mention about the torque (what a wonderful thing torque is)

Ed

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Dennis, you will love the 4.9 Its a really straight forward swap. I am working on 2 swaps right now with many lined up. ASG makes a 300hp 4.9 as well as a 250hp variant. I dont know if their claims of HP are true since they retain the stock cam and valvetrain. My modded 2.8 made 197hp and 293 ft-lbs on the bottle. Caddy makes that stock and only has room to improve! I plan on a 65-85 shot on my 4.9 once I am finished with the install. Look for future dyno tests. Plus Mr Turbo.... I am sure you can come up with a home brewed turbo for the 4.9! Give me a holler if you need any help. You do still have my #'s? BTW try www.car-part.com to find 4.9's in your area. Steven

Steven: I'm really in favor of the 4.9L swap. I don't know who ASG is but those power numbers you posted are impressive.
As mentioned in this post about using a new performance chip; I'm not buying the Superchips claim for their performance 4.9L chips. I know someone who tested them and they didn't make 300Ft lbs of torque as claimed. They were just ever so slightly better than stock.
My real concerns with the 4.9L are reliability for high performance use and the apparent inability of this engine to be rebuilt.
As for adding a turbocharger; Pete that rascal from Canada already beat me too it and added a turbo to his wifes 4.9L GT. Pete did a great job and in the process made me envious. BTW, going to be at Carlisle this year???

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Steven: I'm really in favor of the 4.9L swap. I don't know who ASG is but those power numbers you posted are impressive. As mentioned in this post about using a new performance chip; I'm not buying the Superchips claim for their performance 4.9L chips. I know someone who tested them and they didn't make 300Ft lbs of torque as claimed. They were just ever so slightly better than stock. My real concerns with the 4.9L are reliability for high performance use and the apparent inability of this engine to be rebuilt. As for adding a turbocharger; Pete that rascal from Canada already beat me too it and added a turbo to his wifes 4.9L GT. Pete did a great job and in the process made me envious. BTW, going to be at Carlisle this year???

Those numbers aren't as impressive as you think they are. Check out the prices on that 300 HP engine, and you'll quickly discover that you coulda had a genuine 300 HP SBC *and* purchased Archie's kit, for the same price. Easy to rebuild, power parts galore, and great reliability -- for the same price as the hopped-up Caddy.

That said, I've driven two -- one with a manual, and Ed's demo with the auto -- and I love them both! They are wonderfully easy to drive, make a great sound, and are not expensive! And heck, if you aren't satisfied with, a little shot from the bottle should help that a lot!

I had Ed Parks install a 4.9 auto in my 86 GT back in Feb. It drives like a 2.8 only it does everything much quicker.No high speed lag and I got 29.8 mpg going to the swap meet last weekend cruising at 80mph. The only drawback I have found is that the Caddy engine doesn't hold you back when you let up on the gas so you stay in the brakes more. I had them to "burn" the chip to remove the speed and rev limiter. I haven't tested to see 0-60 times or top end. I know it will do 115mph. It runs 60 at idle, 80 at 2000rpm and 110 at 3000. I LOVE IT.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Pete that rascal from Canada already beat me too it and added a turbo to his wifes 4.9L GT. Pete did a great job and in the process made me envious. BTW, going to be at Carlisle this year???

Yes, We are going to be at Carlisle this year sporting the new modifications Looking forward to meeting new people too.

As for the plus and minus to the 4.9, the engine is hard on gas if you have it reving down the highway with no overdrive. But this winter I swapped out the 125 for a 4t60.

I have also found ours does run cooler than the stock 2.8, Now I just need to cool the engine compartment down from the turbo.

Pete

------------------

quote Originally posted by Jack Cooke: I had Ed Parks install a 4.9 auto in my 86 GT back in Feb. It drives like a 2.8 only it does everything much quicker.No high speed lag and I got 29.8 mpg going to the swap meet last weekend cruising at 80mph. The only drawback I have found is that the Caddy engine doesn't hold you back when you let up on the gas so you stay in the brakes more. I had them to "burn" the chip to remove the speed and rev limiter. I haven't tested to see 0-60 times or top end. I know it will do 115mph. It runs 60 at idle, 80 at 2000rpm and 110 at 3000. I LOVE IT.

60 mph at idle? Damn!!! Me want engine now

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PONTIAC FIERO OUTLAW

-JESSE JAMES-

1984 Pontiac Fiero SE, Red, Blown Iron Duke, 4:10 4 speed. On a 1-10 scale, it's a 7. <Pipedream>What it will become: 1984 Pontiac Fiero GT Fastback, some sorta big ass engine, black interior, Mr. Mikes leather, Blue or Black Paint, and whatever else. On a 1-10 scale, it'll be a 12. :) ;)</pipedream>

Cons:
Everyone will know you are a cheap bastard.
Everyone knows that the 4.9 is a garbage engine.
Everyone will ask you why you didn't use a Northstar or a SBC.
You will get your arse whooped by V6s.

Expense/difficulty of a rebuild in not an issue when you can buy a complete low mileage replacement engine for less than the cost of the rebuild parts. You don't get a new engine, but you also don't have to break it in or worry about the quality of the rebuild. Another plus factor is that the engines hold up very well. All of mine are 80-130k and the only one that didn't run like new is the one that I did a half-assed rebuild on. I ended up pulling that engine out and putting in a high mileage junkyard engine, and that car is now my daily driver.

The 15-20 hp and 22-30Ftlbs. gain from any chip should be considered BS until proven by an independent dyno test.

The ASG engines are too expensive for most of us to even consider, but it proves that the 4.9 can make power. Well, I guess it doesn't prove anything since we haven't seen dyno results from that either.

People complain about the low redline. I don't really get it. Shift sooner and there's no problem. There's no need to rev it any higher when it's making all the power you need at low RPM. I'd rather have to shift early than wait for an engine (OHC) to start making power. Maybe it's just me.

The 4.9 swap really isn't much/any cheaper than a 3800 swap, so if you think the 3800 is a better engine, go with it.

quote Originally posted by Dave Rodabaugh: Those numbers aren't as impressive as you think they are. Check out the prices on that 300 HP engine, and you'll quickly discover that you coulda had a genuine 300 HP SBC *and* purchased Archie's kit, for the same price. Easy to rebuild, power parts galore, and great reliability -- for the same price as the hopped-up Caddy. That said, I've driven two -- one with a manual, and Ed's demo with the auto -- and I love them both! They are wonderfully easy to drive, make a great sound, and are not expensive! And heck, if you aren't satisfied with, a little shot from the bottle should help that a lot!

1 the prices include installation (w body). 2 300hp from a 4.9 is a 100hp gain! How is that not impressive? Also, consider they are using the stock valvetrain. Id say thats REALLY impressive. I would like to know how much for the engine alone.... bet it isnt cheap.
Now, I am not a fan of SBC fieros. I have built a few and was never happy with the end product. Way too many custom parts that cant be found locally if it happens to break. I like the 4.9 for its LACK of custom parts needed to install it. I am not writing this as a flame toward SBC fiero owners/buiders. I have tried it and it just isnt for me.

Steven

------------------
88 Fiero coupe 2.5 5 speed, Custom IHI RHB6 turbo equipped, gutted and track abused
88 Coupe Project "F-88" has begun....Classified TOP SECRET **your gonna love this**
88 Fiero Coupe 2.5/auto Not sure what I am going to do to this one!
87 Fiero GT 14.9/ 89mph **4.9 PFI swap in progress**
87 Fiero Coupe 91k miles
86 Fiero SE
88 Mazda RX-7 'vert SBC v8 383/T-5
Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.

bump...There is some great info here
Thanks--Nathan

------------------

Please E-mail me at Wicked88GT@yahoo.com

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: 1 the prices include installation (w body). 2 300hp from a 4.9 is a 100hp gain! How is that not impressive? Also, consider they are using the stock valvetrain. Id say thats REALLY impressive. I would like to know how much for the engine alone.... bet it isnt cheap. Now, I am not a fan of SBC fieros. I have built a few and was never happy with the end product. Way too many custom parts that cant be found locally if it happens to break. I like the 4.9 for its LACK of custom parts needed to install it. I am not writing this as a flame toward SBC fiero owners/buiders. I have tried it and it just isnt for me. Steven

No, it doesn't include installation. If you will read http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/asg.htm#Price%20List you will see that installation is a $750 option. In addition, even with the transmission delete, the enginen alone would be over $3600.

Archie says, and he is correct, that you can install and SBC conversion for $4000 or less. He even has a thread on this forum dedicated to that topic.

As for the 100 HP gain -- until I see a dyno sheet, I have a LOOOT of trouble believing that figure. Ever seen the heads on the 4.9L? I don't see 100 extra HP *anywhere* in those heads, and especially not if they are using the stock cam. If it's true, it is indeed impressive. I just doubt that it's true.

As for the SBC parts not being available, do you mean for the kit? SBC parts are like so much dirt, and you can get them anywhere.

I believe in "to each their own", when it comes to modifying their cars. If the SBC swap is not for you, then it is not for you. But that ASG stuff just strikes me as shady, and waaay overpriced for what it is.

quote Originally posted by Dave Rodabaugh: No, it doesn't include installation. If you will read http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/asg.htm#Price%20List you will see that installation is a $750 option. In addition, even with the transmission delete, the enginen alone would be over $3600. Archie says, and he is correct, that you can install and SBC conversion for $4000 or less. He even has a thread on this forum dedicated to that topic. As for the 100 HP gain -- until I see a dyno sheet, I have a LOOOT of trouble believing that figure. Ever seen the heads on the 4.9L? I don't see 100 extra HP *anywhere* in those heads, and especially not if they are using the stock cam. If it's true, it is indeed impressive. I just doubt that it's true. As for the SBC parts not being available, do you mean for the kit? SBC parts are like so much dirt, and you can get them anywhere. I believe in "to each their own", when it comes to modifying their cars. If the SBC swap is not for you, then it is not for you. But that ASG stuff just strikes me as shady, and waaay overpriced for what it is.

Oh I agree with you 100%! ASG is way overpriced. I think I made that clear (or maybe it was on my update for jesse's 4.9 thread). They perform installs on W bodys w/ the 300hp motor for 9,500... thats alot of $$. As for Archies 4k SBC engine swap. I have not followed the thread but I am sure that not including labor. So we arent compairing apples to apples. Or is Archie doing COMPLETE SBC swaps for 4k now a days? Jesse's 4.9 conversion with extras was just @ 4k complete. Have to get back to this post... gotta run

Steven

------------------
88 Fiero coupe 2.5 5 speed, Custom IHI RHB6 turbo equipped, gutted and track abused
88 Coupe Project "F-88" has begun....Classified TOP SECRET **your gonna love this**
88 Fiero Coupe 2.5/auto Not sure what I am going to do to this one!
87 Fiero GT 14.9/ 89mph **4.9 PFI swap in progress**
87 Fiero Coupe 91k miles
86 Fiero SE
88 Mazda RX-7 'vert SBC v8 383/T-5
Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.

Getting back to one of the key points on the pro's of doing the Cadillac 4.9L swap; it's $$$ cost per HP gained. IMO, a SBC is hands down a better engine but it also costs way more.
I've heard many claim that a good used 4.9L swap can be done for below $2000 in parts. Hopefully I'll find one of these engines with low miles and prove the point but my engine must have a turbo like Petes. I believe that I can boost and tune this engine for 5 psi turbo boost. I estimate that with 5 psi pressure 325 ft lbs of torque and 250 HP is possible. One question remains- will this combo prove reliable???

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

Just for the record, ASG does use a custom cam. They also use a chip from Fastchips with some pretty aggressive spark advance changes.

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Cons: Everyone will know you are a cheap bastard. Everyone knows that the 4.9 is a garbage engine. Everyone will ask you why you didn't use a Northstar or a SBC. You will get your arse whooped by V6s.

Are you joking man?

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quote Originally posted by Elenor84: Are you joking man?

I don't think soo, I get it all the time! Oh its not a 350, oh it must be a N*, oh its a 4.9, Whats a 4.9....... AS for a V6 beating me...it is very possible. But the V6 guy has more invested. I had the 4.9 N/A in and running on the street for $1200.00 cdn in parts.

------------------

Kickin' thread.

Personal taste and use. I have researched this since for a couple of years and that's what it comes down to.

If I wanted to blow the doors off everybody in town, I would do SBC. However, I care nothing about that. I want my car to perform for MY needs. Sure, I want more power than the 2.8 and the 4.9 RELIABLY delivers that. When I'm driving, it is a relationship between me, the car and the road. The guy at the redlight with the rumbling, primer-grey Nova can bite me. It ain't about him. My personal opinion.

4.9s are RELATIVELY cheap. That's what originally attracted me to the swap. Low end torque suits my driving style perfectly.

300 HP 4.9? I doubt it, but even if it did, why? The weight issue? If I was looking for that much muscle, I would go SBC. Archie's stuff is just too appealing for that market.

I'm not for or against either setup. An engine is basically a tool. As we all know, you should always select the right tool for the job YOU are doing.

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Just for the record, ASG does use a custom cam. They also use a chip from Fastchips with some pretty aggressive spark advance changes.

Hey Jon, do you have any info on this custom 4.9 cam?

------------------
88 Fiero coupe 2.5 5 speed, Custom IHI RHB6 turbo equipped, gutted and track abused
88 Coupe Project "F-88" has begun....Classified TOP SECRET **your gonna love this**
88 Fiero Coupe 2.5/auto Not sure what I am going to do to this one!
87 Fiero GT 14.9/ 89mph **4.9 PFI swap in progress**
87 Fiero Coupe 91k miles
86 Fiero SE
88 Mazda RX-7 'vert SBC v8 383/T-5
Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.

Also, ASG mentions a couple of other things involved in their build-up:

They replace the crankshaft with a "hardened" crank. I think they also replace the rods & pistons as well. I wonder where they get these? Don't suppose a N* set will fit?

And they "balance & blueprint" the engine. This is easy enough to get. If you just have your rotating mass balanced, they pay off is worth whatever the cost. If the engine is truly blueprinted, even better...but I sort of doubt the extent of their blueprint process.

quote Hey Jon, do you have any info on this custom 4.9 cam?

I have the cam specs around here somewhere, I'll see if I can dig that up. I also have the chip.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2412531653&category=33615
1993 4.9 with 91,xxx miles, $300 current bid, little over an hour left...

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Cons: Everyone will know you are a cheap bastard. Everyone knows that the 4.9 is a garbage engine. Everyone will ask you why you didn't use a Northstar or a SBC. You will get your arse whooped by V6s. Expense/difficulty of a rebuild in not an issue when you can buy a complete low mileage replacement engine for less than the cost of the rebuild parts. You don't get a new engine, but you also don't have to break it in or worry about the quality of the rebuild. Another plus factor is that the engines hold up very well. All of mine are 80-130k and the only one that didn't run like new is the one that I did a half-assed rebuild on. I ended up pulling that engine out and putting in a high mileage junkyard engine, and that car is now my daily driver. The 15-20 hp and 22-30Ftlbs. gain from any chip should be considered BS until proven by an independent dyno test. The ASG engines are too expensive for most of us to even consider, but it proves that the 4.9 can make power. Well, I guess it doesn't prove anything since we haven't seen dyno results from that either. People complain about the low redline. I don't really get it. Shift sooner and there's no problem. There's no need to rev it any higher when it's making all the power you need at low RPM. I'd rather have to shift early than wait for an engine (OHC) to start making power. Maybe it's just me. The 4.9 swap really isn't much/any cheaper than a 3800 swap, so if you think the 3800 is a better engine, go with it.

There are some excellent points made here by Jon who owns a 4.9L Fiero or is it two?
I agree that the 4.9L is for the Fiero owner who wants a V8 Fiero on a budget. As with the 3800SC you do have to fab new mounts, use new axels (if you like the matching tranny) rewire and reroute many items. It's probably just about the same work as swapping in the 3800. However, I believe that the cost of this engine will always be less than what a 3800SC engine will cost. Perhaps a $500 savings?
It seems that the real advantage of this swap is great mileage, excellent torque, it's quiet and smooth running and has ample power, plus you can now use your Fiero to pull your 40" house trailer!!!!. We'll almost!!!
I hope that someone will post some 1/4 mile timeslips soon so we can get an idea of the real performance potential of the 4.9L. We hear figures mentioned like mid to high 13's but no data to confirm this so far.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: It seems that the real advantage of this swap is great mileage, excellent torque, it's quiet and smooth running and has ample power, plus you can now use your Fiero to pull your 40" house trailer!!!!. We'll almost!!!

40" house trailer yes, 40' trailer perhaps. Sorry I teach drafting. lol

------------------

Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 Supercharged
White 88 GT Stock
Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution.
History of Skitimes Car

quote It seems that the real advantage of this swap is great mileage, excellent torque, it's quiet and smooth running and has ample power, plus you can now use your Fiero to pull your 40" house trailer!!!!. We'll almost!!!

Yes, and the 3800SC has all of those same qualities.

FWIW I own three 4.9 powered Fieros. I've built several 3800SC Fieros, but have never owned one. That should mean something.

This is all great info. but I would like to hear more from the guy who has the 4.3 turbo Syclone engine in his Fiero. Does anyone know the cost and difficulty of this swap? Just wanna explore all the opportunities
Thanks for the info--Nathan

------------------

Please E-mail me at Wicked88GT@yahoo.com

quote Originally posted by White88GT: This is all great info. but I would like to hear more from the guy who has the 4.3 turbo Syclone engine in his Fiero. Does anyone know the cost and difficulty of this swap? Just wanna explore all the opportunities Thanks for the info--Nathan

Who's "That guy"????
Are you talking about Her86gt's turbo?

------------------

I'm also considering a 4.9 taking everything into consideration the 4.9 seems to the engine best suited for the Fiero tho I prefer the caddy automatic with it.

No STOCK naturally aspirated engine short of a SBC can touch it for low end torque. It weights about the same as a 2.8, it has great MPG when mated with the caddy auto trans. It is reported to be rock solid reliable. It is relatively inexpensive to replace. The only possible drawback that I can see is it possibly lacks punch at high speeds.

Other than that no other naturally aspirated engine short of a SBC can touch it. IMO tho I would be interested in hearing other opinions.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 05-04-2003).]

Make sure to hear the engine run before you buy it. When I bought my engine I couldn't hear it run, the throttlebody was removed by someone. I took it home and decided that I wanted to do headgaskets while the engine was out of the car. I pulled the heads and one of the cylinders had water in it. Luckily the piston was near TDC so no real damage was done but if I would have cranked it over it would have definitly busted something.

Also, I find this conversion more expensive than most people do. Cheapest engine I could find between Edmonton and Calgary was $1000 with wiring harness and ecm. I decided to go carb so to convert the distributor and buy a carb was about $350. I also decided to go with a 5 speed instead of the auto in my car so a cavalier clutch, pressureplate and flywheel will be another $350(including the cost to modify the flywheel). I ended up rebuilding the top and bottom end of the engine. Gaskets for this engine are not cheap. A kit runs for $150 but is missing some important gaskets. Oil pan gasket and timing cover were another $100 on top of the kit. Bottom end was fairly cheap insurance. Main bearings were $75 and con rod bearings were $30. New timing chain was $40. Mounts from bubbajoe are $150. I can't weld very well so I will be going to an exhaust shop to custom make my exhaust. I expect to pay around $500 for a decent stainless setup. I will be making my own mounts for the swap.

I could have saved myself alot of cost if I would have kept fuel injection and went with the stock 3 speed auto. In most cases you shouldn't have to open the engine up, just bolt her in and hope for the best.

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87GT 4.9 in progress!

quote Originally posted by crzyone: I also decided to go with a 5 speed instead of the auto in my car so a cavalier clutch, pressureplate and flywheel will be another $350(including the cost to modify the flywheel).

Hey cryzone...I as well am planning on doing this swap. Just gathering my info and parts list now. Just curious as to where you got your flywheel redone? Know any good machine shops around here?

Elenor84: http://www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero
That is the guy I was talking about. He is on the forum as like vortec fiero or something similar, so I was hoping he could join in this thread and tell us about his swap (hint, hint)
Thanks--Nathan

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Please E-mail me at Wicked88GT@yahoo.com

ASG info and dyno #'s

The ASG 5.0 Performance results:

Engine Dyno Data (taken at the crankshaft, not at the wheels):
RPM HP TORQUE
2000
112
295

2500
146
305

3000
180
316

3500
211
317

4000
245 321

4500
268
313

5000
285
299

Note: although the ASG 5.0 is capable of more HP, peaking at 290 hp at 6000 rpm on an engine dyno, the shift points on the 4T60-E will limit the engine to approximately 4900 rpm. The figures shown reflect this real-world in-car limitation.
What is the HP/Torque at the wheels, as shown on a chassis dyno?
Well, we don't know yet. ASG has not tested a car and/or has not released the figures. Assuming a 25% drive train loss through the 4T60-E transmission, they might be:

RPM ASG 5
HP@Wheels? 92 STS 4.9L HP@Wheels
3500
158.3 146

4000
183.8 154

4500
201.0 164

5000
213.8 148

Note that with the torque converter, you won't see chassis dyno's for an automatic much lower than 3500 rpm. The 92 STS 4.9L is my personal car's composite results from 3 Dynojet dyno pulls.

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Price List
Kevin Heider
Pricing Last Updated: Wed Jan 5 03:43:14 2000

ASG V8 W-Bodies
BASE KIT: $1,530
Includes all necessary hardware, mount brackets, engine and transmission mounts, specially crafted half shafts, hoses, oil cooler and lines, Power steering hoses, A/C hoses, and all bolts, clamps and miscellaneous. Also includes specific wiring instructions for your exact vehicle.

NEW STYLE CRADLE FOR CARS '90 AND OLDER: $525
Reconditioned cradle with new high performance bushings, ball joints, and cradle mounts.

YOUR DRIVE TRAIN CHOICES:
ASG 5.0L DRIVE TRAIN: $5,543 -- Engine & Transmission
The ASG 5.0L is a hand built, balanced and blueprinted, performance engine assembled at ASG Engine Works. The engine is then fitted with brand new injectors, reconditioned accessories, wiring and engine management computer. Except for the obvious badging, the 5.0L has the appearance of a stock Cadillac 4.9 liter. A brand new specially modified 4T60-E transmission is also included. The assembly is complete from transmission to serpentine belt, oil pan to air cleaner.

ASG-BUILT STOCK 4.9 CADILLAC V8 DRIVE TRAIN: $4,150
A better-than-new stock Cadillac drive train equipped with the same accessories and engine management equipment as on the ASG 5.0L. A reconditioned 4T60-E transmission is included.

USED 4.9 DRIVE TRAIN $1,700 -- Engine & Transmission
HAND-PICKED AND LIVE TESTED BY ASG.
A quality way to create an economical conversion. These drive trains are meticulously chosen for their low miles, and excellent condition. They are each rigorously checked for quality and live run tested at ASG.

TRANSMISSION DELETE OPTION $(1,900)
While not recommended, new transmission can be deleted in favor of a reconditioned one for cost reduction credit. ($1900)
Reconditioned transmission assembly add $750

PROFESSIONAL INSTALLATION: $750
Installation of any complete assembly at ASG in Indianapolis.

EXTRAS AND OPTIONS:

Equipment:
Heavy Duty Radiator $315
Tach translator module for cars with tachometer $105

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-05-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Elenor84: Hey cryzone...I as well am planning on doing this swap. Just gathering my info and parts list now. Just curious as to where you got your flywheel redone? Know any good machine shops around here?

Well I went to the one in Redwater and they quoted me $450. I pretty much smiled and walked out the door. Bubbajoe says he has all of his done for $90 in Toronto. I think I'm going to have the holes welded at work and then have a machine shop drill the new pattern and make the metal sleve for the center of the flywheel. You can weld these flywheels, they are cast steel, alittle more friendly than cast iron. I figure it will be stronger than plugging the holes.

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87GT 4.9 in progress!

Just found this. May help those using the 4T60e
http://www.autotransinc.com/intercept.htm

Anyone using this?

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88 Fiero coupe 2.5 5 speed, Custom IHI RHB6 turbo equipped, gutted and track abused
88 Coupe Project "F-88" has begun....Classified TOP SECRET **your gonna love this**
88 Fiero Coupe 2.5/auto Not sure what I am going to do to this one!
87 Fiero GT 14.9/ 89mph **4.9 PFI swap in progress**
87 Fiero Coupe 91k miles
86 Fiero SE
88 Mazda RX-7 'vert SBC v8 383/T-5
Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.