quote Originally posted by FastFieros: This is a 3800SC installed the clean way. More pics > http://www.fastfieros.com/carsavailable/88GT5speed.htm Loyde

Hey, there's that "deckless" fiero again.

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85 SE 2M6 "Fiero Addiction"
85 SE SC3800 Series II 5-Speed

quote Originally posted by 2Fast_Fiero: What do you mean the clean way Loyde?

Clean install can be defined by looking at my own workmanship. You can define what you consider clean yourself.

I installed this 3800NA over a year ago. Now I did not do the orginial install, but I did remove the powertrain and change some things before I sold the car.
NOTE: No wires over the main plemun. Injector wiring is very nicely run, accessories for emissions removed and rerun out of site.

Then we have a 3800SC I installed in January 2003. This client paid for base install. No relocation of wires, EGR, evap, and other accessories which make this look real "busy" as one person here on PFF called it.

Then we have my car which I did July 1-14 this month. Total ripped the wiring harness and redid every wire to custom lenght. Deleted EGR, evap, boost control, and other items not needed for performance gains. Then relocated the coil pack to rid any spark plug wires showing or in heat related problem areas.

So, what is your idea of clean install?

MinnGreenGT - That is 3 inch from the TOG's to the SpinTech muffler, then 2.5 inch to the tips. I have 12 PSI boost with a 3.4 pully. I will be running a 2.8 as soon as I get a working ZZP ICCU.

Loyde

Whuffo, my first car a brand new 1976 Monza Towne Coupe, 262 (4.3L) V8, 4 speed, posi, Edelbrock Streetmaster single plane intake manifold, Holley model 4360 450cfm 4 barrel, Addco sway bars, 1 1/8" front. 7/8" rear, Gabriel Adjustamatics set on full firm front and full soft rear.

I wish I still owned it.

Ira

BTW my driving will be street, with possibly an attempt at the strip and autocross. In other words a street performance car.

[This message has been edited by Monza76 (edited 07-28-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Monza76: Keep me informed of any work you do on your Duke, I just want to explore all of my options. Ira

IRa, it might be a little while as I am trying to work a deal and sell the 86 PoSE and then get an 84 with an Archie kit installed :-) I will be working on that project prior to the 2.5 Duke. Plan is to get the two to look alike as close as possible so folks will not know which one I have that night...Hmm is it the V8 or not???? <evil laugh>

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87 2M4 5 spd "Almost" Daily Driver with working A/C!
86 "PoSE" Needs every thing but a Sunroof Seal!!!
http://home.cfl.rr.com/fierose

I like the other engines like the 3800 and the 3.4, but if I were to change my engine it would be an LT1. I looks great in a Fiero and it just sounds so good. The 3800 is a great engine, but lacks the "impact" of see a corvette engine in a Fiero.
You can not say this does not look great!

The aluminum head 3.1 I put in my fiero was a fairly easy and cheap swap. It is probably one of the best v6 choices for you it is the lightest v6, it is probably the narrowest and shortest v6 so it has alot more room for working on it than the 2.8, it is cheap and easy too find, fix and hotrod, you can get it with an obd1 computer so it is easier to wire up, I get close to 40mpg with mine you could get it with a manual trany but you don't need to have a manual trany engine because the obd1 computer doesn't care, If you want too you can swap in a 3400 and run it on the same computer with a new chip, it has alot of torque so you can slide the back out if you want too It was a good choice for me because any kind of hi-performance v6 is incredibly exspensive around here.

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'69 AMC Ambassador sst 2dr hardtop 390ci 3 spd B&m shift kit-the cruiser(315hp/427ftlbs)
'86 Fiero GT 4spd, aluminum head 3.1, vented rear brakes, Cavalier seats-got a T3 turbo just need some time
'93 Cavalier Z24 5 spd (engine donor)-parting out
'82 Yamaha Heritage Special 400cc 6 spd, hi-flo exhaust and air filters-For Sale to buy more Fiero stuff

Rockchip, I have the same problem with costs, but a 3.1 from a rusted Sunbird or Cavalier may be easy to find and cheap (about $500 if I take the whole car) so it may be the easiest engine to find out of the list so far. 3800s are not that common here, 2.4 DOHCs are obdII I believe, 2.8s are common but most are old and well worn, the 3.1 may be the easiest to find a decent engine.

Thanks
Ira

The 2.4's are OBDII, but you may want to look into changes that were made to the crank and cam sensors going from OBDI to OBDII, as an OBDI Q4 ECM may be able to run a 2.4.

quote Originally posted by Monza76: Whuffo, my first car a brand new 1976 Monza Towne Coupe, 262 (4.3L) V8, 4 speed, posi, Edelbrock Streetmaster single plane intake manifold, Holley model 4360 450cfm 4 barrel, Addco sway bars, 1 1/8" front. 7/8" rear, Gabriel Adjustamatics set on full firm front and full soft rear. I wish I still owned it. [/COLOR][/SIZE]

I had a brand new '77 Monza hatchback. It had the 2.3 with a 4 speed and more problems than you could shake a stick at. After the 3rd engine failed at 68,000 I sent it to the crusher - I wish I'd never seen that POS.

Anyway, for the kind of driving you're thinking about you might want to consider the Cadillac 4.9. It bolts up nicely, and they're inexpensive. I just saw one go by on eBay with no bids - they were asking $350 for it.

And you might want to look into collector car insurance - much more reasonable for the modified "toy" car.

Whuffo, you should have gotten the small block chevy, the only problem mine had was the rear shock mounts.

Ira

In my opinion the best swap is a removed, professionally rebuilt, modified, re-installed, and turbocharged factory original 2.8

Correct, looks great, everything hooks up nice as it is designed to, and nice power (200-250) for the Fiero.

*shrug*

quote Originally posted by Monza76: Whuffo, you should have gotten the small block chevy, the only problem mine had was the rear shock mounts. Ira

That lousy aluminum block Vega engine was only one of the problems. What really bothered me were the structural integrity issues. There were several places where the sheet metal fatigued around an attachment point: at the hatchback hydraulic support (ouch, right on my head), at the door latch posts, and where the front subframe attached to the body (this is why I crushed it). Not to mention the spontaneously disassembling steering gear and other blatant examples of haphazard engineering. Sheesh; I never had a set of front wheel bearings last more than 4,000 miles on that thing.

I'm glad you had good luck with yours, but I sure didn't have good luck with mine. After that I had an 84 Olds Cutlass Ciera; good car for about 50K and then it started shedding parts. I swore off GM and changed to Ford at that point. I still drive Fords; my daily driver is a new Taurus.

The Fiero? Yes, I know it's a mid 80's GM product and know very well what that implies. But these little cars are unique and a whole lot of fun. Better when you realize that in many places, "good as new" isn't good enough - and with some judicious swapping of parts from newer / better built vehicles you can make a pretty reliable little car.

Just a little input from me, FWIW...

On engine swap selection: Actually find my V6's easier to work on than the Duke, generally speaking - mainly because it's shorter. Tends to steer me away from 4-cyl and V8's. See posts on water pump R&R, for example. No flames, please - just my humble observation.

On Monza structural problems - I must agree, saw my chassis cracking out from under a pretty decent drivetrain (3.2-liter oddfiring V6, Saginaw 4-speed). Too bad the car had to go - looked good, handled well, ample torque, decent fuel economy. But the creaks and groans couldn't be ignored, so had to bid the car farewell.

Ira, thanks for starting an interesting and informative thread . Loyde, beautiful job. What your re-routing of wiring and hoses does for engine compartment appearance, is simply "plumb" amazing.

Sorry, Loyde. One of these days, Stu will be lernt to spel. Loyde: One "L." buddycraigg: Two "g"s. Okay Stu, now write these hints 1000 times on the board...

[This message has been edited by StuGood (edited 08-03-2003).]

Thanks guys, as for the Monza, if I had kept it long enough I may have had the same problems, I seem to remember some gaps opening in front of the doors.

A 3.1 V6, or a Quad4 (or 2.4) (if I can get the whole engine electronics, 5 speed transmission), or a Caddy 4.9 if one comes my way. Most likely I will work at getting just a little better response out of the Duke until I can get a decent donor. The 3.1 may be the easiest for me to find here. An Ecotec would be cool, but it is brand new and therefore scarce and an unknown comodity for a swap (read some good things about this engine, lots of potential). The 2.4 has an available supercharger kit, ideal if I had lots of bucks.

Thanks again, I now have lots of food for thought.

Ira

Proud88GT. Thank you for showing my LT1 installation. Was that shot from the Daytona Show this year? Thanks to Archie for the install as it helped me take a first place modified award at the show.

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88GT LT1 5SPD
87GT AUTO
FOCOA CFOGI CFF

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: So, what is your idea of clean install?

Rated a 10 by the 20th judges too and it has a intercooler with a decklid. J/K Loyde

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Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 INTERCOOLED SUPERCHARGED
White 88 GT Stock
Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution.
History of Skitimes Car UPDATED 6-20-03

Hey Ski how do you keep your engine so clean?
Do you drive the car or do you tow it around the block LOL!!!
My is nowhere tidy as yours, but then again my has over 350 000 km on it!

quote Originally posted by Quad GT: Hey Ski how do you keep your engine so clean? Do you drive the car or do you tow it around the block LOL!!! My is nowhere tidy as yours, but then again my has over 350 000 km on it!

Well hours spent in the engine compartment with no engine in it for starters. The engine was a new crate engine so there is no grime on it. I also spent a lot of time cleaning the old transmission till is was spotless. After the engine and trans was install then keeping it clean has been easy. Soap and water from a hose makes it spotless again.

Does anyone have any good pictures of some quad 4 installations? Please post them if you do.

Ira

quote Originally posted by Monza76: So Will, the 2.4 has less power but better reliability. This would suit me just fine, with a freer flowing exhaust and intake system it would probably pick up 10 hp anyway. I could check out the J-car guys to see what the latest hp tricks are for this engine. Not the 180-190hp I could expect from a 2.3HO but probably a reliable 160-170hp. Any other comments. BTW Will, we better check out this shifter question, if you get an answer let me know. Ira Oh! One silly question, are the top aluminum covers necessary on these engines (you know the fancy name plate over the cam boxes), or are they just dress ups? I think the engine would look cool without it, but I was assuming that it was an integral part of the cooling or ignition suppression system. Anyone have an answer? [This message has been edited by Monza76 (edited 07-28-2003).]

Not to mention GM has a Super Charger available for it. The same one as the ecotec 2.2 and it makes 225HP whne force feed. been looking at putting it on my alero.