We keep seeing people beg GM to bring the car back. whatever.............
Fiero is DEAD. This is a Good thing.
The only way Fiero would return is as a variation of some GM FWD POS car. It's like F'ing Neon that is the same car no matter what else Chrysler sticks in front of or after the Neon name... A car that the paint literally falls off of after a couple years.
Everything that GM, and their contractors, did on the Fiero project has moved to other GM/Chevy/Buick/Olds/Saturn cars. The Only exception is the mid engine and that was half assed anyway. The entire Fiero powertrain is a parts bin FWD system. (Except maybe the axles...) What else could it be? There are only so many ways to transverse mount engines...
People bit_h about performance.... ALL GM FWD cars from that time had the same problems. None of the GM FWD cars from 83-90 had anything but 4 and 6 cyl setups. (Ignoring Cadilac for the moment.... Caddi had magor problems adapting V8 to the 4T60. And Sprint... A 3 Cyl engine....)
A close friend of mine had an 85 Cavalier Z24.... The same HO V6 used in Fiero. It was at least as big a POS as the car rag people all said the Fiero was. I don't know anyone that had a V6 Cavalier that didn't have major problems that were blown off by both GM and NHTSA. These F'ing cars would die in the middle of the road.
You really Don't want GM to build the Fiero again. For all the problems you though it had... they can make it worse and likely would. Their new ad's say it all... we made sh_tty cars for years... PLEASE give us another chance... BARF.
Many whine that Fiero is a "parts bin" car. This is a very GOOD thing for 84-87 Fiero owners. It means you will continue to find parts for some time. 88 owners are often stuck with Fiero wh(st)ore or other price gouging scum for parts. It will get worse for them quickly.
A NEW Fiero would have as much in common with the original Fiero as a current Mustang has with one from the 60's. Nothing but the name would be the same. Actually,,, at least the Ford Mustang is still a RWD car.... GM has Zero instrest in mid engine cars.
It's like BMW and the Mini... Mini went from the Euro Pinto, a Cheap car that you could do all sort of things to, to a 20+ thousand dollar car only Yuppies can buy. It's both a joke and an insult.
I for one hope to god that GM NEVER makes Fiero again.
------------------ Screamin' Yellow Zonkers... If it's Screaming and Yellow, I aint eatin it.
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11:32 PM
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Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12400 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
I really don't think any other car manufacturer was doing much better during the years you mentioned. I do happen to think that G.M. and other automobile manufacturer's are doing a whole lot better jobs in designing products that better meet the customer expectations. I also know that G.M. has made the most improvement of any U.S. manufacturer and can back that up with J.D. Power surveys. Please don't bad mouth our U.S. built products, we have definatley shipped to much of our manufactured products out of the country already. by the way I think pretty highly of my 88 Fiero GT and did not enjoy your rant at all!!!!!
[This message has been edited by laffer98 (edited 05-31-2003).]
A NEW Fiero would have as much in common with the original Fiero as a current Mustang has with one from the 60's. Nothing but the name would be the same. Actually,,, at least the Ford Mustang is still a RWD car.... GM has Zero instrest in mid engine cars.
It's like BMW and the Mini... Mini went from the Euro Pinto, a Cheap car that you could do all sort of things to, to a 20+ thousand dollar car only Yuppies can buy. It's both a joke and an insult.
Theogre throws more boulders--but he has a point.
Let's say that Pontiac did build a new Fiero, and actually remained true to the original concept. What do you think it would COST?
Ford took the Thunderbird off the market for a couple years; when it came back, it was as a retro-styled 2-seat convertible (true to the original concept) with a sticker price 2.5 TIMES HIGHER than the previous existing model year.
GM would price the "2003 Fiero" at $50,000 and it wouldn't even perform as well as the base Corvette does...and when it didn't sell all that well (as the T-bird, apparently, has not) GM would then stop making it with the excuse, "we want to keep the interest high..."
I wish I had theogre's strength; I feel like tossing a few boulders of my own....
Ed
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12:03 AM
laffer98 Member
Posts: 194 From: Independence, Mo USA Registered: May 99
No one is going to produce a car that they can't make a profit on. In the case of the last 4 door 4 seater Ford Thunderbird the car was built and sold as a family car and they sold large quantities to amortize the cost over a large product run and it was built on a platform that other Ford cars were built on. Then Ford decided to take a risk and build a two seater, they knew that it would not sell in anywhere near the same quantities of a family car would so they had to price it accordingly. Also they had some incentive to price it even a little higher because of initial demand, and uniqueness. Like most low run automobiles built today, Plymouth Prowler, Dodge Viper, Pontiac GTO, a lot of the uniqueness of an automobile is how much it cost. I am sure you know this by example, Chevrolet Avalance vs the Cadillac Escalade. That is not to say there are not some significant differences between those two products, but just not enough difference to warrant the markup between the two.
Now can G.M. or Ford or Chrysler build a car priced at the same competetive break point as they did the fiero back in the 80's? Sure! They are doing it today, as we speak, it's called a Ford Mustang. There really is no manufacturable reason a mid-engine car built on a front wheel drive platform, that is already in production, cannot be built as inexpensively as the original Fiero was and the Mustang is.
Is there a business case for such a product, a lot of us think there is, but there are a lot of bean counters at the head of most autombile companies that would say
"yes, but if we were to put our investment dollars elsewhere we could get a much larger return on our dollar".
Then with G.M. you also have an old interdivisional rivalry that prevents Pontiac from having a product that would even slightly compete against the well established Corvette line. Speaking of the Corvette, it has been recognized as the best maufactured sports car ever, at it's price point. No other manufacturer in the world has so far shown the ability to build a comparable car at the same cost. So give G.M. credit where credit is due and if you've never driven a C5 you should and by the way the C6 is and will be even better.
So get off the Rant and give it up
IT DON'T WASH
[This message has been edited by laffer98 (edited 05-31-2003).]
I tend to agree. The Fiero name may some day be back but the car we know is a forgone conclusion. However the part about the mid engine design being half assed, I'll only half agree. It was a new idea and basicly the infancy of the technology. I feel that if GM had continued production of the fiero it would have VERY little in common with what we are used to in our antiquated machines.
I would more liken the return of the fiero as the return of the crystler 300, just a name and nothing more, woopie
What GM should do is design (yeah right) I mean buy a midengine jap (or other forgin) design and produce it.
The only way I will ever buy a new car from GM is IF it was designed by americans from the gound up and built on good old US soil.
GM used to be like baseball and apple pie but it seems more and more like cricket and sushi
As far as the conclusion that GM FWD is a POS well name any car that does not die or have problems on the road from time to time. Triple A is not a division of GM
But alas, the fiero is history, there no telling what it would look like or perform like today. Just speculating I'm sure by now the fiero would give most sports cars a serious run for their money, I have no doubt about that.
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12:58 AM
Xantavar Member
Posts: 1158 From: Big Rapids, MI...Ferris State Registered: Nov 2002
Tell me...how is something like the Fiero going to come back from its bad reputation to conquer the masses and gain profit for GM? Where do you think R&D will come from to reproduce these cars? I dont think they have a care in the world for the fiero as another new model car. With the introduction of the GTO and the (supposed) Solstice, there would be no more room for profits inside the division.
Why would you want it back anyway? I believe that the new Mini is nice, but strays a bit from the tradition of "function before fancy". What do you think the new fiero would be? Hello...can you say new F-body? It'll also be grossly overpriced to meet the niche-like demand the car will have. No go there.
Next thing...you will be trying to tell us the General doesnt like its cash flow....
------------------ #7277 of 46581 built in 1987. My thoughts are on you Sean and Chris! Come back safe!
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12:59 AM
laffer98 Member
Posts: 194 From: Independence, Mo USA Registered: May 99
Will they build a Fiero again....... IN NAME ONLY!!
Would I or other Fiero owners buy it..... PROBABLY!!!
Will Ford build the Model T again.... I DON"T THINK SO BUT THE GT40 IS COMING BACK!!!
Is it the same car?.......... NO!!!
Let's enjoy the good cars that we had, have and will get in our lifetimes and quit ranting about something that may or may not be possible especially when we don't have any real clue. As I said.....
IT DON'T WASH!!!!!!
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01:19 AM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15253 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
A close friend of mine had an 85 Cavalier Z24.... The same HO V6 used in Fiero. It was at least as big a POS as the car rag people all said the Fiero was. I don't know anyone that had a V6 Cavalier that didn't have major problems that were blown off by both GM and NHTSA. These F'ing cars would die in the middle of the road.
that's something i've asked before, especially with the 4cyl. seems like other '84 gm cars using that engine would have gotten some of that same batch of engines with weak rods. why didn't the bad rep stick with them? because it was the fiero's first year and it made the problem easy to link to them?
as far as a reintroduction, it's a moot point for me. if they made it in a way that would make it desireable, say, with all the improvements you would expect if it had been made all this time and steadily improving, i probaly couldn't afford it anyway.
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01:41 AM
Garethster Member
Posts: 363 From: Duncan, BC Canada Registered: Oct 2002
you're comparing a car that ford built to beat ferrari with in the 60's, to a car that GM built in the 80's as an economymobile? Maybe you guys don't like ford, but at least they have the balls to bring out cars that people love (Gt40, thunderbird, 390hp mustang)..
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02:29 AM
GT-X Member
Posts: 1507 From: Crestwood, KY Registered: Feb 2003
Does anyone remember what Chrysler did a few years after they castrated the Dodge Challenger (70 was available with the 426hemi and a 4spd, 73-74 I don't think you could even get a 340 in it and no manual transmission)and then discontinued production. Wow, we can make some money off the name so we'll get a cheap import and release the all new "Challenger", what a POS.
I don't see GM execs sittin' around going, "we sure could sell alot of cars if we just put that Fiero name back on a platform". Don't see it happening.
As far as, "imagine the great leaps GM would have made in midengine design by now if they would have kept the line alive". It would have the same FWD drivetrain as any other GM car, most likely no better or worse than a GrandAm. If anything GM is moving closer to consolidating parts, I remember when there actually was a Pontiac motor! That was long ago and increased the cost of production so they standardized throughout there different divisions.
I like the fact that you in most likelyhood will never see another car made with the Fiero moniker!
Also like to say that I took NO personal insult against the comment Ogre made about the 88 model year, I don't think he meant it as any kind of insult...... did you Ogre (LOL).
In closing, instead of trying to get GM to bring it back we should be trying to make sure they never do!
Lighten up and enjoy, or was that light up and enjoy?
JohnnyK Ford in my oppinion always seems to be a step behind GM here's my reasoning...
base model sports car: Ford=base mustang 6cyl. GM=base firebird 6cyl. diffrence= theres many stock 4 cyl cars on the road that slap the v6 mustang in the face. the camaro at least hold to the sport part. One step up sports car. Ford=mustang GT V8 GM= Firebird formula/camaro Z28 LT1 diffrence= the many many a day have i seen a 'Stang GT fall to a stock Z28 those LT1's are just hard core. Top of the line sports car. Ford=Mustang Cobra GM=Trans AM/ Camaro SS diffrence= ... really who in the same class holds a pink birthday candle to the SS?
and i figure i'm being kind seeing as i didn't even bring up the eternal mistake that is the probe as the base sports car. And seriously if the fiero was still in production GM would have B*tched it. seriously they'd have slapped a weak 4cly. in there, slapped it on the tail end and told it to sell. It's life span would have been quite similar to the Nova. At first a true muscle-car but then taken to it's very very tragic end... *weeps gently* ...a 4cyl. family sedan that promises saved gas. Lets be glad they didn't take it into further shame. i mean i'd have maybe liked to see maybe a large production untill 1992. Which was considered (89 prototype) but denied. I think the should have stopped production when they updated the f-bodies. Let the fiero at least have a respectable run on the market before killing her. 4 years i must say isn't quite enough. POST SUMMERY: Fords suck, Fiero would've shared Nova's tragik end. Should have produced Fiero till '92. P.S. maybe in '92 GM should have produced a iroc-z fiero with a V8!
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08:20 AM
87FieroGTx Member
Posts: 2630 From: Bath, New York, USA Registered: Jun 2001
I'm with theogre. I know you folks have some nice Fieros but I think comparing their production run to GT40s, Novas, GTOs and such are delusions of grandeur. Our cars (short of the 88) sit on a Chevette suspension. They came with 4-cyl engines. The first write-ups I saw on the Fiero (from GM) called it a "commuter car". I don't think the other cars mentioned above would ever be accused of that.
The Cavalier was and is a piece of crap, in MY opinion. Take the new one, cross it with a Sunfire and there you have the "late-model Fiero"...a car for teenage girls and guys who don't know enough about cars to realize they own a piece of crap.
I don't like F-bodies. The best place to find F-bodies around here is in a trailer park. Lolita and Tangeray LOVE those things! Automatic transmissions abound the F-body. SPORTS car, you say? Key word is f-BODY. It's a Camaro, it's a Firebird, it's THE SAME TIRED, NON-HANDLING, HEAVY BOAT OF A CAR!! The body on GM cars should be a dealer option.
Anyway, that's my rant on GM...don't get me started on Ford
I know plenty of you love the F-body and GM. This is not a slam on you guys. You guys are the ones who modify the cars enough to make them actually decent. Not my cup of tea, though.
If they did come out with a new Fiero, we would do the same things we do now to get performance out of it: New suspension, brakes and engine. Diffrence is, instead of an initial investment of 2K in the car, it would be more like 25K THEN start paying for mods. Can you say RICER?
I'll keep my less that perfect, cheap, easily modified 1987 GT, thank you.
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08:58 AM
johnt671 Member
Posts: 2271 From: sugarloaf pa usa Registered: Feb 2001
I'd have to agree with ogre also. For every person person I've met that had a good opinion of the Fiero I've met two that have a bad impression, saying they burn up or you'll be dead if you crash in a Fiero.
I just had someone at work tell me about crashing and I started to tell them about the safety test results I saw that I might as well go talk to a pile of pallets and just shut up.
I think the Fiero name is in history along with many other names because of the negative opinion of the car.
Hey, maybe some day the History Channel will have a historys mystery called Fiero : Flaming Death Bomb or Super Safe Car. Or Fiero, the Tucker of the 80's?
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09:07 AM
Fformula88 Member
Posts: 7891 From: Buffalo, NY Registered: Mar 2000
What really amazes me is the number of people here who think GM would use the Fiero nameplate again. I suppose it could happen... right after they resurrect the Corvair name. A nameplate with such a poor public image will NOT get used again. The common perception is that Fiero means engine fires, poor reliability, and a garbage failure of a car. Why in the world would GM attach that to a new car? They certainly won't do it in hope of attracting the few thousand of people here who like the Fiero.
The Solstice, or a car like it, will be as close to the Fiero as Pontiac gets. They won't do mid engine again because they will need something that can be built off of an existing platform to cut costs. It will be a parts bin car again. Yet, even the hope of seeing a Solstice production car is small, and at the very least far off into the future.
Enjoy the Fiero you have. Its a unique car in the American Auto industry history, and a unique car on the road today.
AS for the Ford T-Bird, the blue oval guys ruined it as soon as they went from two to four seats years ago. They had their chance to fix it, and came out with an underperforming, ugly POS that is way overpriced. Sad.
The corporate bean counters always win, regardless of the company (Porsche Cayenne SUV anyone?).
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09:12 AM
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Gordo Member
Posts: 2981 From: East Guilford, NY, USA Registered: Mar 2002
I agree with Ogre, but prefer not to use such attention grabbing language.
Yes, the iron duke engine would be better suited running an air compressor...but I love it anyway.
Yes, the Fiero was born on the parts shelf...But so were most american cars of that era.
Actually, cars from the 80's were some of the most boreing cars ever produced but the Fiero did bring some innovations in construction and visual appeal. I am still baffled why GM ever produced it in the first place.
The Fiero must never return. I like it that way. It's bad reputation is one of the reasons that you can get them so cheep. I like the idea of owning something unusual and face it, it's probably the most fun that you can have behind the wheel for a couple thousand dollars.
There is no snob appead in our cars. This is one of the reasons that Fiero owners in general are the best group of people that I have ever met.
Someone at work just picked up a new Lexus SC430 and while I am not going to begin to make a comparison of the cars, I would much rather have a Fiero with $10,000 worth of mods and $60,000 in my pocket than pay for and insure a $70,000 vehicle.
Just my opinion.
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09:28 AM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 16083 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
I would like to see the Fiero brought back as per the original GM concept- an economy car with a sports car look sold at an affordable price. Fieros did not use the best components that GM had to offer way back then, The Fiero did provide nice styling or a "poor mans" Vette as some call it. For instance, GM could use Saturn parts to build a similar styled vehicle if they wanted to but apparently they don't see a market for a two seat vehicle. GM has tried several times to enter the two seat economy car market and each time the car was dropped. Does anyone remember the Buick Reatta?
My Fieros are moments in time. I love the car and will keep them till something else comes along and gives me greater pleasure. Bottom line that is why I have the Fiero in the first place I enjoy it. Will I buy a new car? No, I have never own a new car and will never probably. Besides the cost I don’t see anything that catches my eye on the show room floor. Besides even if GM did build a road burning fire breathing demon, it would probably come with some extra features like a black box that e-mails you a ticket every time you do something wrong. I like my cars to be seasoned. I like the fact that I can go buy a car and pay cash for it. The Fiero reputation help keep the price down. If everyone knew how cool these cars are then I could not afford 3 of them. Would I buy a new Fiero? No. I would probably spend my money on a Archie kit and sit outside the Dealer and race people that are test driving the new ones
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10:22 AM
deceler8 Member
Posts: 2139 From: Sioux City, Iowa USA Registered: Sep 1999
Maybe Ogre is trying to get his first thread in the Trash Can...
All I know is I bought my Fiero four years ago for $500, probably have another $300 in it as far as needed non-maintenance repairs, and it's the first used car I've ever owned (other than my 1951 Chevrolet 3100)...
Maybe my experience is not typical, but this car is the best running, best performing auto I've ever owned and the looks it gets continue to amaze me.
At the radio station where I work, the high school and college kids think it's some kind of exotic foreign car, and the other day, some guy in a brand new Chrysler 300M parked next to it and was checking it out.
Ogre had a point...my Camaro and my Cutlass and my Dodge Shadow were all pieces of crap in one way or another...the Camaro was a rust bucket, the Cutlass lost sheets of paint in a gentle breeze, and the Shadow...come to think of it...never had a problem with it...regardless, loved all those cars.
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10:25 AM
Freshj Member
Posts: 1250 From: Holly, Michigan Registered: Nov 2001
Originally posted by laffer98: <Snip> So give G.M. credit where credit is due and if you've never driven a C5 you should and by the way the C6 is and will be even better. </Snip> [This message has been edited by laffer98 (edited 05-31-2003).]
Why do I need to drive a C5? My car is just as fast (proven multiple times over), looks better, and is still a Fiero to boot
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10:51 AM
derangedsheep Member
Posts: 3089 From: Myerstown, PA Registered: Mar 2003
i agree with ogre. although, heres my .02 that i always throw in when these topice arise. The VW beatle. in 1995 or so, you could by a good condition 1960's beatle for anywhere from $500-1000. the new beatle came out and the 60's ones started to fetch 2000+.
imagine if this happened with fieros!!! our $100 parts cars would all of a sudden be $1000 or 1500. think about it...
------------------ "I'm a rage-a-holic. I'm addicted to rage-a-hol!" - Homer Simpson
I got a great idea on how to build a decent affordable car with great looks, designed and built by americans IN america.
First we cut the salary of the execs by about half a million or more each or maybe say cap it at 100k a year, sound reasonable?
Can the way! overpriced management and hire in some fesh new faces with alot of ambition, drive and dedication that are willing to do a good job at a modest yet reasonable pay and sheer satisfaction of creating and nurturing ideas.
Hire some under graduates from Caltech, MIT and a few other well know places fairly cheap to design and test the computer models (like they do with aircraft) and come up with a radical new design that is easy to maintain and build.
Get quotes from companies for tooling, parts and materials then flatly deny the initial inflated quotes(Auto makers are cash cows) and allow rebid untill something reasonable comes up.
Hire a few of the millions of out of work americans to build it with pride.
But it will never happen because the rich will suck up all the money for themselves and build a world around their overpriced products that only they can afford to buy.
What I have typed above USED to be the way America did things. A few bright people willing to do a good job for little more than the satisfaction of it, that would put in 18 to 20 hrs a day because of their enthusiasm and not because of the overtime pay. They did it not for a 75k a year (time to make the doughnuts) pain in the ass, I hate my job attitude but because they WANTED TO.
Hell I'll do it for 25k a year if I can put pride in my work and it shows, that's good enough for me. If the critics balk at me well, I'll just make it better but I won't require more money to do it, just my determination, "can do" attitude and good ole american pride.
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01:39 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41355 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
What really amazes me is the number of people here who think GM would use the Fiero nameplate again...
The Solstice, or a car like it, will be as close to the Fiero as Pontiac gets. They won't do mid engine again because they will need something that can be built off of an existing platform to cut costs. It will be a parts bin car again...
I agree about the name. Most people, right or wrong, associate the Fiero name with engine fires. I think if anything similar to the Fiero is ever produced, and if Pontiac wants to make it recognizeable to all the faithful (read: us), they will call it Pegasus. Truth be known, the faithful would recognize it if it were called Fred. I'm guessing that any new Pontiac sporty car (other than the Solstice) will be called a Firebird. BUT (here it comes)... There's still that rumor I read a couple of years back, that had to do with GM looking for floor space in the Corvette plant to build a Pontiac of some . This, in additon to the Corvette and XLR. (I'll keep repeating this until it happens, or someone *who knows* tells me it won't.)
------------------ Raydar
88 3.4 coupe. 17s, cut springs 'n all.
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02:02 PM
ThaFieroMunk Member
Posts: 945 From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada Registered: Dec 2002
Let the fiero at least have a respectable run on the market before killing her. 4 years i must say isn't quite enough.
The Fiero was built for 5 years (84, 85, 86, 87, 88).
I'd also like to mention that I agree with theogre in one respect: the Fiero should never be produced again. If they are going to build another mid-engined sports car let them build a new one with a new reputation with a new community. I like what we have and a new model Fiero would just make things worse.
------------------ 1987 GT - out to play for the summer
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02:20 PM
Doug Chase Member
Posts: 1487 From: Seattle area, Washington State, USA Registered: Sep 2001
seems like other '84 gm cars using that engine would have gotten some of that same batch of engines with weak rods. why didn't the bad rep stick with them? because it was the fiero's first year and it made the problem easy to link to them?
When the FWD cars put a rod through the block the oil poured all over the road, the engine quit running, and the car coasted to a stop (this happened to me in an '81 Pontiac Phoenix).
When the Fiero put a rod through the block the oil poured all over the catalytic converter and started the car on fire.
On the greater topic at hand, one thing you all are missing when comparing the Fiero to Minis, Bugs, Mustangs, Thunderbirds, and F-bodies, is that all of these cars were very popular in their day. Not to burst anybodies bubble, but the Fiero was not an icon like all of these cars. Sure, it sold a lot in '84, but for a number of reasons its popularity had declined significantly within five years.
The closest real comparison is the Corvair. Both are unique vehicles that were sold for a few years, got an arguably undeserved bad reputation, fell out of favor with the public, and were discontinued. Both have cult followings but are largely unknown to the general public. And of course, both have the engine behind the passenger compartment.
I bet half the people on the street today have no idea what a Corvair is, and Corvairs were made for ten years! In another ten or twenty years Fieros will be all but forgotten about except among a few of us freaks.
It's possible that GM will build another rear / mid engined car some day. They've already built two. If they do I may buy one but I'll be under no illusion that it's another Fiero.
------------------ Doug Chase '88 Fiero Formula 5-spd (autocrosser) '88 Fiero GT 5-spd (daily driver) '85 Fiero GT 5-spd (rally car) '87 Fiero SE V6 5-spd (for sale $2200) '88 Fiero Formula 5-spd (parts car / future rally car #2) Custom roll cage fabrication available Custom exhaust fabrication available
the 84 Fiero was VERY popular and very well supported, crap man it paced the indy 500 (modifications granted) out of the box. 85 GM pulled back it's PR machine because of bad press and impending suits. GM unwisely tried to hush hush things instead of fixing it promptly but they did wisely not try to promote a car that the press deemed dangerous and deadly no matter how sound the design was or how outrageous claims of spontanious combustion or a 100% fatality rate in an accident.
Why fight a loosing battle? You can't beat the voice of masses no matter how misinformed they may be. GM is a big bad company spreading hype not facts, general people believe hype good or bad but trust the bad more than good and mistrust by that virtue alone, smart people who educate themselves with facts don't subscribe to good hype or bad hype. Just the facts ma'm
Fact it broke Fact they fixed it Fact the problem mostly went away Fact all cars are death traps Fact all cars contain volitile fluids and have the potential to burst into flames for a multitude of reasons.
I just described a problem with fords ignition switch!
This brings up another issue. Magazine writers! they are almost as bad as lawyers! Piss one off and lookout, I don't care how good the product is, your name will be mud and god forbid there is a valid problem! Good thing for the writer because he / she now has a focus for the article. Screw C&D and Moto clique. Nothing more than focused hype with a small blurb of factual usefull information. Skid pad..who cares as long as it stops before I hit something. 0 to 60 times... why? not like I need 1000 HP to get to the store or work, friken moped will do the job. Hype, all hype.
If I want to buy a car I'll look around for what I like and meticulesly maintain it once I have it.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 05-31-2003).]
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03:08 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41355 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by Doug Chase: ...It's possible that GM will build another rear / mid engined car some day. They've already built two. If they do I may buy one but I'll be under no illusion that it's another Fiero.
Let's see... Last Corvair was '69? First Fiero was '84. Sounds like a fifteen year span to me. Last Fiero was '88. Fifteen years forward brings us to 2003.
We're waiting.
Anybody else think that GM ought to use the Corvette to go after the new GT-40 (or whatever Ford is gonna call it), the Viper, and other "hypercars"; let the XLR take care of the "Grand Tourers" (Cripes. It only has 235/50s on it for crying out loud.); and build a "less expensive" two seat (preferably mid engine ) hotrod Pontiac for the rest of us? IMHO, It would make perfect sense from a marketing standpoint.
And no. I don't want another Fiero. I want something with more leg room, more storage space, and a V-8 or 3800SC (I'm not picky.)
R.
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04:56 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Except for the 7,000 or so members on this Forum, the name Fiero carries a bad reputation. I don't think we'll see it used again in our lifetime.
GM has a general problem in that all its nameplates carry a stigma from the crappy cars that were produced up until the late 90s.
USA Today just had an article about it. The new Grand Am scored 5 out of 5 in market testing until it was revealed that it was a Pontiac then the score dropped to 3 out of 5.
The Malibu scored higher in JD Powers in intial quality than the Camry and Accord, costs less and has more features, guess which one has the higher sales? (hint:it's not the Malibu).
If I were Lutz I would dump all the old GM make and model names and start over.
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05:26 PM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by laffer98: Please don't bad mouth our U.S. built products, we have definatley shipped to much of our manufactured products out of the country already.[/SIZE]
What does being US-Built have to do with it? Why would you possibly make a statement like that? Out of some perverse sense of Patriotism? *ALL* US car-companies made GARBAGE in the mid-80s. Ford sucked. GM stunk. Chrysler SUCKED. The ONLY decent cars on the road during that time were German, and Japanese.
It's one thing to love your country, it's another to use that love as a petty excuse to defend 3 huge, blood-sucking, vicious, soul-less companies, based solely on the fact that they are "US Based."
Nothing wrong with being US based, that's not my point. They weren't crappy BECAUSE they were American (or maybe they were... Capitalism has some really ugly facets... but I digress). But being American does NOT excuse shoddy workmanship, shoddy materials, crude business practices, or over-emphasis on bean-counter production tips.
In response to Ogre: I agree on all points, except that in my experience, the Fiero has never been anyhting BUT reliable and solid, at least until I started messing with it (and shoe-horned a huge [relatively] motor into it)
I would NOT like to see a re-emergence of the Fiero.
I wouldn't mind seeing a genuine GM attempt at a cool-looking MRWD sports car. But do NOT call it the Fiero.
That'd be like having your dog run over, and your parents trying to mend your broken heart with a puppy with the same name.
I can learn to love a new puppy, but it gets a NEW name, thanks!
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05:43 PM
Tonker Member
Posts: 612 From: Ottawa, ON, Canada Registered: Jun 2001
Let's say that Pontiac did build a new Fiero, and actually remained true to the original concept. What do you think it would COST?
GM has made the Fiero and it's called the Opel Speedster. I really hope the bean-counters at GM have properly reserched this, because I just can't see how a car like this couldn't be an effective product. Personally, I am never going to buy a 'vette. It's not my style; I don't need a huge sports car with a v8, I'd be happy with a turbo'ed 4 cyl ecotech that I can rev the crap out of. Something that will hug the twisty roads. I mean, Mazda is making a go of it with the Miata and has been since the Fiero was cancelled.
As for pricing, my guess is in the 37-38K USD, 51-52K CAD range for a base model. Now I'm sure you're wonder, how does this genius (alright, shaddap ) manage to pull these numbers out of thin air, right? I went to the Opel site and priced the Speedsters in France and the UK. Now obviously this is going to be a pretty inexact number, but I'm willing to bet the GM can keep the in this range price if they produced it and marketed it here even with the increased emissions and safety standards.
So how do you like THEM apples? *boom*
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06:15 PM
HappyFiero Member
Posts: 216 From: Salem,IN. USA Registered: Feb 2002
The Fiero was one of the best things going on in the 80's But the whole fire thing killed it. I have had so many non car people say they catch fire dont they . thats all the general pop remembers.
Why bring back the dead?. A new 2 seater rear engine would be nice But it still wouldnt be a Fiero. by name or in any other way.
Anyone remember the Edsel they were good cars. Just didnt sell.? To far ahead of there time. But Ford wouldnt use that name because of its history . Same thing ,just differnt with the Fiero.
[This message has been edited by HappyFiero (edited 05-31-2003).]
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06:17 PM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
, we've come along way since, though. Our cars now come with BSE and SARS! 
