Today I called the Finale "completed". Oh, there are still a few very minor details that we need to attend to, but they ARE minor details and ARE few. Some are just because I may want to make some changes in colors or style. Some of the things are a change (possible) of grille color, still thinking about the EL gauges, possible different steering wheel because the turn signal stalk is a little loose. Minor items like that.
I have lots of pictures and won't get them posted all tonight but I'll split them up over several posts and if there's something in particular you want to see or have questions about let me know and I'll take more.
The shots I took tonight are not the quality I'd hoped because of an overcast and late evening waiting for things to clear, but they're still pretty good, I think.
So, on with the show.........
I like this shot, but not the background. I'm going to do it again from a higher angle in daylight sometime.
I think it looks hungry. 8-)
The view most often seen by other drivers. 8-)
John Stricker
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10:56 PM
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jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6261 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
John, That is SWEET!!!!!! You have to bring it to hutch. I have a dig. camera with 108 pics on it... we can use them all up Great Color! Damn Nice Job! WOW! Thanks for the pics... Chris.
------------------ 88 Formula WTB White 88 Formula t-tops w/5spd, pw,pl,cc,a/c,tan int.
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11:05 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
OK, so it's only a 3.4L. It still runs respectably and should be stone reliable.
This shows the airbox I built. It's triangular shaped and made of sheet metal. The outside has a high temperature tape on it (like you wrap wires with) and the inside is lined with bulk exhaust gasket material. The whole thing has cold air ducted to it from the drivers side body vent through 2 3"ID pieces of SCAT tubing. I was curious how well it worked so I put a indoor/outdoor thermometer in the engine bay and ran the remote probe to the inside of the airbox. The temperature today was 79°F OAT. The engine compartment temperature, while driving at 70 mph, was about 127°F and the air inlet temperature was 81°F. I consider that a success, since the airbox sits just above the crossover pipe.
This is a shot inside looking through the back glass. It shows the three vents, two stock ones and a modified vent from an '84 Fiero in the center.
John Stricker
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11:30 PM
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cstricker Member
Posts: 103 From: Russell/Manhattan, KS, USA Registered: Sep 2002
Not sure if my dad's still up so I'll say what it's packing. We put a crate 3.4L pushrod in. MSD ignition and MSD Hellicore, Hypertech chip, cold air intake with a K&N filter, headers(don't remember what brand), all bolted to a 3spd automatic. I think that's all, other than the SpinTech(sp?) muffler. I think that's all, did I forget anything dad?
------------------ Chris Stricker 85 Metallic Copper 3.4L Finale
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11:36 PM
Cutra Member
Posts: 61 From: Maple Ontario Canada Registered: Apr 2002
Great job. When I see some great work like this I just have to praise it. This makes me want to buy myself another fiero and do a Finale... Way to go.... wow
------------------ Cutraman
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11:38 PM
litespd Member
Posts: 8128 From: No where you want to be Registered: Aug 99
John and Chris....I'm not a big fan of the Fino/Finale body kits. Just a personal preference...but I have to say, you have one hell of a beautiful car there. The time you've spent on all the details really shows...and I love the choice of color, wheels, and Mr. Mike's seats. You two really have something to be proud of...you have built a very special automobile! Hope to be able to see it in person someday!
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11:42 PM
Heretic Member
Posts: 1102 From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. Registered: Aug 2001
To help answer questions, I'll try to list all the stuff we did to it. I'm sure I'll forget some of it.
We bought the car in pretty sad shape on 4/14/02. It was an '85 SE with a 2.8L and automatic with a rod out. We had the car mechanically correct for Chris' graduation around the 20th or May. Although it was nothing to look at, it ran well and had *0* leaks or problems other than the rear brake cables. He drove it for about 3,000 miles to be sure we had the mechanicals debugged while we were waiting for the body kit from Archie. We received the body kit from Archie on 7/18/02 and we began pulling the '85 body parts from the donor on 7/22/02. The install of the kit took less than 60 days to complete, but it took a lot of coordination and planning. For example, I had the paint scheduled to be done the day after the body arrived. Parts were ordered ahead of the body and a lot of what we needed was sitting in the shop when the kit arrived. If it hadn't been, we'd have never gotten done in this short amount of time.
Total Work time on the car, I estimate, was around 1200 hours, including the mechanical repairs. Somebody worked on it every day and most of the time there was two of us, many times 3 or 4. It was a family project from the start and my farm hand worked on it alot as well. He's a master welder and heavy metal fabricator if he has plans or sketches to go from. That is worth a lot when you have to redesign rear body mounts (due to the tail lights), fabricate brackets, and repair rusted frame areas. I can't count the number of nights we all came in after 11:00 pm covered in micro and fiberglass dust from sanding. None of us had enough fingerprints left to leave any by the time the car went in for paint.
It took 1 day short of 5 months from the time we bought the donor car to calling it "done". If a thing like this can ever be called really done. 8-)
From there, here's the list of changes/fixes that I can recall:
GM 3.4L Crate Engine WCF Shorty Headers, wrapped in Thermo-Tec MSD Coil, 6-AL, Wires and harness Ram tube with K&N Filter Underdrive Pulley set New A/C compressor Hypertech Chip, Fan Switch LinTech Injectors New Alternator New Water Pump New coolant and fuel lines (flex lines, not hard lines) WCF Poly Transmission and Engine Mounts Poly Dogbone bushings Poly Cradle Bushings Rebuilt Transmission RCC Bump Steer Correction Kit New Rear Tie Rod Ends All new Poly control arm bushings (f&r) All new ball joints (f&r) New half-shafts New carrier bearings New rotors, calipers all four corners Blazer master cylinder Braided Stainless Brake lines KYB Shocks and Struts Eibach Springs (f&r) All new parking brake cables Spin Tech muffler Ractive tips All new switches in the interior (they all showed wear) Mr Mikes leather interior Repaint vinyl trim in interior New headliner Finale kit from V8 Archie Shaved door handle kit from Dakota Digital with 7 channel remote. New in seat and in dash speakers Sony CD Receiver (already had it, DIN Spec) Power antenna
Some of the custom touches on the car: '98 Bonneville Rear tail lights Molded in LED third brake light in the wing Driving lights Custom trunk cover that seals the entire trunk area Power antenna Custom mount cell phone antenna All power acc (locks, doors, windows, mirrors, a/c, cruise, deck lid) work properly and hatch, doors, & locks are keyless remote Custom cold air box and intake Custom rigging to have hatch and deck open as one unit Custom modified '84 engine grille in rear deck Blended wing into rear section, smoothed and molded all body panels together into one unit ALL wiring soldered, shrink wrapped, and taped into harnesses. Eastwook Caliper paint Custom aluminum grill The paint is a custom mix that is very close to the 2000 Mazda copper that we tinted to try to match the Metallic Beryllium Copper of the Saleen S7. It's a Dupont Chroma Basecoat/Clearcoat system. The interior was painted with Sherwin Williams Ultra Interior with a touch up gun and airbrush.
Little details just kill you on time. my hired hand and I spent a full afternoon and part of an evening doing nothing but figuring out the mechanics of the power hatch release and the back-up key lock release, a necessity with the shaved door handles. Figured that way, we have about 15 manhours in the hatch release. We figure we have at least 200 manhours in figuring out, contouring, and fabricating brackets to mount the rear tail lights.
I'm sure there is more, but the project came together so fast, and so many modifications, that some of the things that seemed like real big deals at the time have sort of faded into oblivion. 8-) Mechanically, if it moved or could wear, it got replaced. Cosmetically, if it showed any sign of wear it was either replaced, modified, or improved.
It's a kick in the butt to drive, and you don't have to drive it fast to get that feeling. All you have to do is stop somewhere, anywhere, and you'll have questions about what it is, how you built it, what's under the hood, you name it. There are no quick gas stops anymore.
John Stricker
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12:24 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
The wheels are Sport Edition Fox 5 and the tires are Dunlop 9000. All from The Tire Rack. I wasn't crazy about them but Chris picked them out and now that they're on the car I think they're about perfect. If I was doing it over, I might have tried 235's in back instead of 215's, but the wheels look really good.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Heretic: Thats one sweet finale kit!! The color fits the car perfect.
What kind of rims are those? They look great!
Later, Chris
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12:30 AM
Standard Member
Posts: 4667 From: St. Cloud, MN Registered: Apr 99
You bring up an intersting point. Although we did 95% or more of the work ourselves, some of the things that really make the car special you just (or at least we can't) can't do without things like paint booths, proper respirators, or equipment to bend exhaust tubing, etc.
Kudos are definitely in order for the people that helped us on this.
First, I have to praise the Fiero Store. Yes, their prices are a little high, but they have 1st class customer service and do things when they say they will how they say they will.
V8 Archie. When I first told him my ideas for the tail lights, I'm sure he thought I was nuts. After I sent him some in progress picks, he started to get excited. He never once tried to tell me "we couldn't do that" or "it wasn't possible". He answered my questions. He sent the kit with the Grand Prix headlights and, to be blunt, I didn't like them or the mods required to make them fit. When I told him that, instead of saying "tough, that's what we use" he said "no problem, I'll send you a set of the Caravan lights and you can see if you like them better. Whichever set you don't use, send back to me." If Archie wasn't on the road, he always answered the phone and if he was gone, John or Martin tried to help. He spent as much time as we needed, particularly when we were having problems with panel alignments. (No, it doesn't just "bolt on". Bolting them on is barely getting started, if you want to do it right.)
West Coast Fieros. I know Archie and the boys at west don't exactly get along, but when we called them about the headers and mounts, and told them about or time constraints, they had them to us in less than the 10 working days promised (it actually took 8). I have no complaints and when I suggested a change in the headers (moving the O2 sensor position clocking) Eric was very receptive. They did right by me.
Wicks aircraft supply. There's so much stuff on this car that's aviation it should be able to fly. If you do fiberglass work, they're the people to see. Their customer service is the cream of the crop. They're in St Louis and that's 2 days UPS ground to me. One order, after 3 days and not here yet, I called them to get a tracking number. Customer service knew why I was calling before I called because THEIR computer knows UPS preferred routes and if one of their shipments deviates from that route, it alerts them and THEY call UPS and get it taken care of. Our order had been misrouted to Birmingham, AL instead of Lenexa, KS and they caught it so that it was there only two days late, before UPS even knew it had been misrouted. We also used them for heim joint ends, aluminum bells, SCAT tubing, vinyl trim, all the fiberglass supplies, and on and on. No, they're not cheap. The stuff is aviation quality, after all. But if you want good stuff, done right, Wicks is just the place.
My exhaust was done by EQ muffler in Great Bend, KS. They have done several Fiero's in the past and even done a V8 swap. He let me in the shop to help and show him how I wanted it to make sure it was the way I wanted it to be. It was actually started by another local shop but they decided they didn't need to finish it when I gave them a week's notice ahead of time to finish up 1 hour's work. I don't tolerate that so I called EQ and they got me in at 8:00 the next morning.
The paint was done by Auto Body Specialists in Russell, KS. Mike Schoech owns the shop and his employee, Jeff, does most of the custom work. When we had the panels hung, Mike came out and looked the project over, helping us to know what we could do better/different to make the painting go that much quicker and easier. The paint job was not cheap, they did the final blocking and sanding. But I think the results speak for themselves. I've had two other custom vehicles done by them and all of my "regular" work is done by them as well. No, they're not cheap either, but quality paint and work never is.
The pinstriping was done by Mark Guthrie of Marks Signs and Designs in Great Bend, KS. Mark is truly an artist. What you see on the car was all freehand with brush. This is the third vehicle he's done for me and I've always been impressed not just with his brush talents but his eye as to what looks "right" and what doesn't. He's also dirt reasonable. The striping cost me less than $90 including tax.
Linder Technical Services provided the injectors. When I called them initially they thought they knew just what I needed for injectors. About 2 hours later they called me saying to "hold on" as they had another customer doing the same thing and that he claimed to have an intake leak at the injectors. The next day they called again saying that there was no leak, the guy hadn't even run his engine, but since the o-rings looked different from his old ones, he just assumed they would leak. They didn't, mine didn't either, and they were very reasonable. I paid $185 outright (I didn't return the cores) for a set of 6 that had been flowed (and that included shipping). Good, knowledgable people.
I *think* that's everybody. If anyone on the forum was left out, it wasn't intentional so PM me and I'll certainly give you the credit you deserve. (or blast you if you sucked at your job)
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by RedGTFieroKCMO: Cool design with the rear taillights. Did you paint it yourself? Do you paint professionally for others?
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01:01 AM
Dan Robinson Member
Posts: 482 From: South Milwaukee, WI Registered: May 2001
WOW......that looks beautiful. Real sweet. I like how you did the pinstriping. I'm not a big fan of pinstriping but yours is very tasteful and goes well with the lines. What color are they?
------------------ DiZZI
Matthew 11:28,29 28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." www.geocities.com/captain_cu_cu/danro.html
[This message has been edited by Dan Robinson (edited 09-14-2002).]
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01:02 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
The tail lights are from a '98 Bonneville. We decided on them after getting the kit from Archie. We made a cardboard template of the curve of the back of the Finale and then went to car lots and parking lots, holding the templates against the backs of likely candidates.
That was kind of fun because, at car lots, we'd pull up behind a car and get out, holding our template against the car and measuring. A salesman would come out and look at us. "can I help you?" "no" "OK, uh, what are you doing?" "measuring the tail lights on this car" "OK, uh, why?" "that's really none of your business now is it?"
That would generally confuse them pretty well. 8-)
Actually, at a Pontiac dealer in Wichita, when the salesman came out and we told him what we were doing, he told us that back in the late '80's he and another guy put Fiero panels on a tube chassis with a big block Chevy and went bracket racing. He also had a new Fiero at the time.
The big problem was contourin and modifying the rear end, and not just the fiberglass. It took a new rear body mount, trimming of the frame rails and corners of the tub, and a LOT of work. I wouldn't recommend it for the faint of heart.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by The Fieromaster: WOW my favorite kit car!
Is that a custom tail lamp assembly? Because i thought all the Finale's had the round tail lights?!? I like the tail lights you have even better!!
WICKED COLOR too!
Good luck and thats a car ya got there!
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01:07 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
The stripes are freehand brush by Mark Guthrie of Mark's Signs and Designs in Great Bend, KS. He does top notch work. They are One-shot (pretty much all the pro's use that) black. I wanted to keep it simple. This was also the only one he's done for me that he signed, in paint, with a brush, in letters less than 1/8" tall. I asked him to since we're going to a couple of shows with it.
Mark's a real modest, quiet guy with a great hand and better eye.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Dan Robinson: WOW......that looks beautiful. Real sweet. I like how you did the pinstriping. I'm not a big fan of pinstriping but yours is very tasteful and goes well with the lines. What color are they and were they hand painted or decal?
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01:11 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Oreif stole my post But I concur: That is a very beutiful car. I REALLY like the taillights as I thought that was the weakest part of the Finale kit. I like the seperated design.
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03:14 AM
Will-Martin Member
Posts: 1164 From: DFW, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2002
That is a very nice looking car you have there. I think I speak for most PFF members in saying how much we appreciated how you kept us informed of all your progress. Good luck with your new toy Now get out there and get those new tires dirty! That car was meant to be driven. To me the tailights are really what does it. That is a very unique feature I doubt we will see on another car.
------------------
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04:30 AM
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
Haven't said anything yet, because the new wheels weren't on, but now that they are...
Car needs a WIDETRACK suspension kit like the stars need hydrogen and gravitation? (uh, insert a good metaphor here.)
Maybe could use low-offset, wide wide wide rims, but widetrack is really the way to go with these things. (can keep the more available high-offset wheels.)
Best! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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04:47 AM
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FieroJames Member
Posts: 322 From: Corpus Christi , Texas , USA Registered: Feb 2002
GREAT WORK (hands clapping) It looks great and my favorite part (that no ones said anything about outright) is that it still says PONTIAC on it! Way to go!
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10:02 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20696 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
I really like the tail lights. Those really look like they were designed for that car. All the work was worth it!
There were a couple of things I didn't like about Archie's cars when I saw them in person at the Dells. One was the door handles didn't look right, shaving them definitely was the right thing to do there. The other was the headlights had gaps around them that made it look like they didn't belong there. Did using the Caravan headlights resolve that or are there still gaps there? I ask because it's hard to tell from pictures, I never noticed it on Archie's car until I saw it in person, then it jumped out at me.
Again... Nice work!
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11:54 AM
AgaricX Member
Posts: 1165 From: A genetics lab somewhere in TX, USA Registered: Aug 2001
If you have any questions or need any help with anything, let me know. If you're coming to RRR, I plan to be there (although I forgot to make my room reservations, I'll have to do that before I leave for the weekend.)
Haze is working on a show sign for us as we speak.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by AgaricX: Ok, you can get Archie to thank you. You have SOLD me on this kit. Seriously.
I was wavering, but I'm going to buy one. That's a big definite.
VERY VERY NICE!!
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01:57 PM
Rare87GT Member
Posts: 5086 From: Wichita, KS USA Registered: Oct 2001
John all I can say is wow. That is one beautiful car. You will have to bring it to Ark City on October 5th. I have a few mods to put on my 3.4 before then and hopefully my goal is to break into the 14's. You should give it a try down the track as well. A few new parts I got to throw on the engine a underdrive pulley, fuel pressure regulator, new 24lb injectors, new NGK Plugs, the dynotuner from Travis to hopefully make it run to its maximum performance, new walbro fuel pump, and a MSD Ignition 6al box. What kind of gains did you see with your msd box? A little difference up high? I am also wondering about idling and so on because my 3.4 has a tendency to surge after it is warmed up from 1000rpm to 700 at times but its mostly around 1000 to 900 back and forth. I am going to get a new O2 sensor as someone said that maybe the problem with the surging so I am going to try that out. Any other ideas. Also do you have a Cam in your car? And again I can't wait to see this car in a few weeks hopefully. See ya great work!
car ya got there!
That is a very nice looking car you have there. I think I speak for most PFF members in saying how much we appreciated how you kept us informed of all your progress. Good luck with your new toy 
