Here's something I've come up with after reading "On a clear day you can see General Motors" by John Z. Delorean, watching back to the future and talking about the Delorean with a friend of mine I started realizing that the two cars had alot in common and the fact that the first fiero was driven in 1980 and the Delorean was available in 1981 sparked my curiousity.
I've done little reasearch on the subject and I don't claim that any of this is true or provable, just some food for thought so don't get to critical.

“While I was running Pontiac, we put together a sprightly, low-cost, two-seat sports car that incorporated the Pontiac overhead cam six cylinder engine and a fiberglass body”
- John Z. DeLorean from “On a Clear day you can see General Motors”

In the late 1970’s John Z. Delorean made a decision to quit working for General Motors where he enjoyed a $650,000 annual income because he felt he didn’t fit in and went to create his own car company. But you don’t just say no and walk away from the world’s largest company without consequence.

He created the company known as DMC (Delorean Motor Company) and based it in the industrial area of Ireland. The first car he created seemed as though it was the small car he tried so desperately to get off the ground at Pontiac. With all the same ideals, small rust resistant, rear-engine, two-seater powered by a V-6. Although they were broad and classical ideals no other cars could fit the whole bill. He finally had the car ready for the 1981 car market and, of course, he called it the Delorean.

It is rumored that GM sent Pontiac (the division Mr. Delorean try to persuade into making the small car) on a mission to create a car with the same ideals as the Delorean but improved and more affordable, able to sell by the thousands. Hulki Aldikacti became the leader of the operation and came up with innovative and award winning concepts. Instead of expensive stainless steel Pontiac used plastic for they’re body panels, and formed the engine grills from magnesium. Other than that the cars were very similar, with the mid-engine and the small two-seat design.

So after DMC made its first car it is said that GM decided to end his career for him, instigating strikes in the Ireland manufacturing plants and strong-arming dealers into rejecting the Delorean. Unlike in fairy tales this time Goliath crushed David. That was the end of classic DMC and now all that’s left is a company that provides engine upgrades and replacement parts.

Interesting concept, and there is a connection between John Z and the Fiero, although not a direct one.

A bunch of people who were involved with the 2 seater concept at Pontiac (pre-Fiero during the John Z time) were still at Pontiac when the need for a fuel efficient car arose in the late 70's. Shawn Estes was one of these people, and I believe was president of PMD at the time the Fiero project took off. He was one of its biggest supporters, and helped it along.

Although John Z did start the idea at PMD years ago, the Fiero finally came to market more as a result of the conditions of the economy and enough backers in enough high places with GM (although almost not enough!).

quote Originally posted by FieroLaird: ...Instead of expensive stainless steel Pontiac used plastic for they’re body panels, and formed the engine grills from magnesium.

Of course, you do know what is under that stainless steel, don't you? Plastic! Just like the front & rear fascias (of the Delorean). I believe the material used is a very close "relative" to the Fiero's "Enduraflex" panels as well. Coincidence, or not?

I have no doubts that both cars were somewhat stimulated by the same concepts and ideas- I also have no doubts that GM Execs were rather displeased with John Delorean... although I'm sure that any/all tracks were certainly covered well enough so as not be able to pin anything on GM. Too bad too, because J.Z.Delorean certainly had a lot of things going for him (drug issues aside ).

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Looking for Fiero posters?

Thanks for the info guys, this was more of a instigating conversation post than preaching, like I said I hadn't done much looking into the whole idea. very interesting stuff.

?????Shaun Estes? Mid engine v6?

Guys You've got the basics but a little befuddled. But you are on the right track.

Elliot M. (Pete) Estes was President Of GM while Roger Smith was CEO in the late 70's.
Estes was chief engineer at PMD prior to that position which John Z. followed as Chief Engineer and later General manager of PMD until 1973 when he headed over to Chevrolet. John left in the mid 70's to pursue his dream but his aroggance caught up with him as did the deep recession of the early 80's. While at PMD he attempted to do a 2 seater with a inline six rear drive front engine fiberglass body that looked like a cross between a firebird and a vette. GM managmement already had the new "F" body 67 Firebird/Camaro pretty much ready to go and that was in retaliation to the Ford Mustang which Ford had a 3 year head start on in the Pony car market. John did build 2 prototypes of that car and it was called a banshee. I beleive 1 still exists today and lives in Florida after they bought it off of a retired engineer that saved it from the crusher. I believe an issue of Smoke Signals or HPP did an article on it in the lst couple of years. DeLorean could not get anyone to support the project and reluctantly went along with the Firebird. It was probably a good thing as the F car was a hit and cut into Ford's sales deeply. The Delorean when it hit had problems from quality to a lack luster performing engine at a time when the world economy was in a tailspin and interest rates in the US were running 21-22%. John was a good engineer and a maverick manager that survived and succeeded with GM at a time when a General Manager could have more say in what a division did. Case in point the GTO. Estes and Delorean got it off the ground by sneaking it past corporate management as an option package instead of an individual model. Thus they skated past the corporate edict of no big block V8's in mid size cars. Delorean may have 1st had the idea within the division to make a two seater but when the Fiero concept was born he had been gone for at least 4 or 5 years.

When John proposed the 2 seater banshee no one cared about fuel economy and even the overhead cam six which died a quick death after just a couple of years as no one wanted it. It was available in the LeMans and had almost as much torque as the 326 V8 and lighter too. Shame as it was a great little engine. The times were right for the Fiero by the end of the 70's when gas was rumored to be headed for $3 a gallon. Pontiac was in a tailspin and had gone from 3rd in the market to 7th or 8th. Performance had made them great but since OPEC, EPA and the like they lost track of their roots. They tried to compete with Buick & Olds and they damn near turned the lights out on them in 1979-80. If it were not for Smokey & the Bandit in 76-77 the momentum of 250,000 F body sales that carried through until 79 they would have been gone as total sales by 81 were lucky to hit 300,000 for combined sales on all carlines. Hard to believe from a company that sold over a million cars in one year and was 3rd in the US market behind Ford & Chevrolet. The Fiero was the catalist and spark that got them going again and put them back on track with their roots.

I think you can credit some guys in the forward planning group and our Turkish friend who designed and executed the project. Bob Stemple was General Manager of PMD when they proposed the Fiero and soon after was replaced with Bill Hoglund who continued the project and helped keep it going underwraps when GM was bleeding red ink for the first time in it's history and the order came down to stop work on the car. Bill was smart enough to keep it rolling and released tidbits to the motoring press periodically which helped upper management to finally give in and give the green light to proceed with the project. Hoglund was a finance guy but loved cars unfortunately soon after the Fiero was launched he was promoted on and Mike Losh proceeded him. He got to bask in Pontiac's resurgence breifly and also made the decision in 88 to cancel the P car just when we got it right but too little too late. Delorean had problems from the begining and picked a car with a limited market potential and not much in the performance end of things. He was desperate to build a car had some neat ideas but let's face it....how logical is Ireland to build a car? Not only from a labor standpoint but logistically! If you will recall the Irish had several years of strife and bombings courtesy of the IRA trying to take Ireland back from Great Britian etc. not a great place for stability. I don't recall any of my dealers being strong armed to stay away from handling the car. I'm not sure now that Delorean had the distribution and service network in good shape at start up. If I recall a lot of dealers got burned on warranty work even before he went belly up.

Had it not been for John's success at GM he never would have had the backing of investors to go along with him but I think in the long run you can boil it down to lack of capital to get it off the ground the right way thus his "Let's Make A "Dope" Deal in which he became the dope. Poor John...I certainly admired what he did at PMD but I think he lost it in the end.

Mike Murphy
DSM PMD 82-87
St. Louis & Portland Zones

[This message has been edited by Mike Murphy (edited 01-07-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Mike Murphy (edited 01-08-2003).]