Does anyone have a computer permanently mounted to the car that actively controls the vehicle in any way? Climate, Cruise, Blinkers, Lights, Turbo, NOS?
Or any kind of monitoring? Multiple temperatures (oil, water, intake, exhaust) boost pressure, engine sensors, speed, acceleration?

I know that you can get the ECM that comes with a wiring harness and can be computer controlled and monitored... But thats not what I mean this time.

I found a circuit board for computer controlled logic that makes it cheap enough for a hobbyist to use wherever they want. 16 I/O channels (either or) that connects to a paralell port and is custom programmed by the (advanced) user. With the ability to control 4 boards with one computer. The wheels in my head are really spinning.

Thats 64 IO channels controlled by one PC. Its not that this is so cool, its just that these boards are $100 a pop, this technology 3 years ago meant spending thousands for 10 channels making it impractical.

Anyone know where to get cheap VGA LCD Screens? maybe 6 to 8 inch.. Too Cool!

JesterFox.

There is a thread about putting in a DVD player and a PS1 mobil monitor in a Fiero. In this thread it had a link to a site for supercheap monitors. Try searching or maybe someone else can post it. I would but I can't remember its name.

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87 GT
Holley Side Scoop---DELETE
K&N Air Filter
Home Page

I put computers in cars all the time. Usually 6-10" TFT screens and BookPCs.

I'm working on one using the ALDL connector for the Fiero... but i need a Fiero to work on!! (ROB!)

I also build LCD screens. What price range is cheap? I have an 8.4 that needs an inverter and controller I can sell cheap.

I have also worked on engine monitoring via CPU on my old Nissan 300ZX.

See sig
I have a computer waiting to go in. Will control car functions eventually. Right now it programs/monitors the TEC-II engine management system, has DVD, TV, MP3 through stereo, voice control, mobile internet, GPS, 2 CD drives(1 will be swapped burner), 10.4" LCD, wireless keyboard, etc. Installed in a custom case.

All is ready to install except for extending power supply wires and I have to finish venting front compartment.

I want another monitor, Agaric, I have a spare TDK inverter which may work, and can get a controller no prob. If you want to sell, PM me. Also, how are you powering these computers? I'm going to use an inverter because I don't trust the car's charging system. I figure the inverter will smooth out the power so I don't fry anything. Have any other safe methods?

Have any pictures?

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DECALS,FIERO SHOWS,STUFF...www.purplefiero.com

quote Originally posted by Joe Torma: Also, how are you powering these computers?

heheh, I started reading your post and was going to ask you. I figured an inverter running off a second battery was the safest bet. However, I would like to have the computer run all the time. How long can I run a 200w computer power supply on a car battery? If I do that, and <deep cycle?> the battery that often is that damaging to the battery? Then I wonder if I need to look into a differnt type of battery, a 12v that is meant to be charged and drained frequently.

How about a thermometer that connects to a PC? I would want 6 of them. oil, water, intake, exhaust, external, internal. Serial device might work, if a serial card could be used.

Agaric; What do you mean by an inverter and controller? Is this a VGA screen? Will a regular VGA Controller work? Or are you talking about vga controller to inverter to tv inverter? What is the resolution of this screen?

JesterFox

[This message has been edited by jesterfox' (edited 08-01-2002).]

OK, I'm behind you all the way!

I have a decent amount of programming experience... but it's mostly limited to database access etc... I have no experience with hardware input.

I DO have the sourcecode to WinALDL...

And I DO have a SERIOUS interest in this. I would love to do away with the A/C controls etc and replace them with an x86 computer.

How much experience do you have designing circuits and software programming?

My tools are at your disposal, but my time isn't what it used to be. I work for a University, so my soul belongs to them.

Keypower makes a 250 watt 12vDC ATX power supply. Bought it for about $250 for the computer I will be Installing in my car

I've also got a AutoPC ready to go in, I've got a 5.6" LCD monitor from Parts express you can get bigger but the price jumps up quickly. My biggest concern is heat, right now my home pc overheats and crashes(but it is overclocked). The whole controlling of lights and stuff seams pretty simple basically off and on, also the tempeture monitors "Seam" easy, If you want some really good infomation on how to control and motitor things with your computer get the book "How to control the world with your pc"
By the way I'm no progamming expert either!

I'm not exactly sure here what your trying to do. Why would you use an inverter to convert the DC to AC when the first thing the PC does is convert AC to DC. Everything inside a computer runs off DC power. Sounds to me like you should get a processer and make your own board and computer. A microcontroller could also be used if you could find one with enough I/O's. I might be able to answer some questions if you have them but you have alot of work ahead of you in my opinion. Many of these sensors are already used by the ECU, maybe you should try to communicate with that one first.

I've been thinking about doing a simple daq but have too much other stuff going on to start another project.

AgaricX, I have 3 bookpcs I could let go cheap if you're interested. They have cellory processors. I don't remember how fast. 700-800mhz most likely.

Joe, is the Tec 2 working for you? Our FSAE team used to use electromotiv $hit, but it never worked right, even with factory support.

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If you want the computer to run all the time, you're going to either have to 1) drive your car a lot or 2) use multiple batteries. The best bet, I'd say, is the Optima Yellow Top. You can drain it fully dead and recharge and it's fine. I've found NTSC color LCDs for as little as $125.. all you need is a video card with TV-out. Mount an infrared remote pickup somewhere and you have a kickass sound/video system.

200 watt drain.. ouch.

If you don't use a power inverter you will need to make a DCtoDC converter, since computers require at least: +12v, +5v, -12v, and -5v in order to run. The +12, and +5 are pretty easy, just be using regulators, but the -12, and -5 are much harder when all you have is 12-14 volts, and you need a common ground between them all.

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: Joe, is the Tec 2 working for you? Our FSAE team used to use electromotiv $hit, but it never worked right, even with factory support.

Yup works great. If you need some help(if you are still trying to run them) let me know.

I'm using a DC-AC converter because I don't trust the DC system in the car. The inverter suppsosidly has circutry to provide a nice stable power source. Also, the DC power supply(above) will work, but draws 37amps...which is no problem for my 200amp alternator, but I could use all the juice for other things. I'm not sure what the inverter draws, but its much less than the 30amp fuse in it.

You can't run it for long before the battery dies. Batteries are heavy so I'm not adding another one. I may make a mini-UPS to sustain it for a second or two(while car cranks) but thats it.

It is my opinion that I have the basic programming and electronic knowlege to do this as I have described... I also think I can fly.

I would use the existing engine sensors, but would want that to go to a programmable ECU. And would use the ECU Monitoring to get the info from the sensors. (I think)

Besides the complicated wiring and the fact that you need the 5 volt lines, a powersuplly attached to an inverter would do a whole lot of power filtering. I am wondering though if I would be better off tearing apart an old laptop and taking the battery circuits out and using that as a "powersupply" (Using a larger battery with the laptop "Powersupply."

The only other thing I thought of was to have the car start itself and recharge every couple of hours. In Alaska my lil sister had her car starting every 4 hours in the winter nights, so its not *that* unreasonable.

The Computer would also controll the alarm, so it would be neccesary.

This is nothing more than ideas of grandure, I can barely afford the engine swap I am doing. But I do have a bit of equipment I could throw into the car... this computer would be my first candidate.

JesterFox

We used the TEC-II as well on our FSAE team. It is not reliable at all, I think it isn't really made for a motor revving at 13,000RPM's. It crapped out in Detroit at the competition. It's also kinda complicated to tune. The Tec-III looks much better, with 4-GPI's and 4-GPO's. I believe we're going with a Motec this year. I was thinking of using a Haltech unit when I do a 3800SC swap. I'm also thinking of developinig my own engine management system for my senior design project. Anyways I think I'm putting this post way off topic, sorry.

What about using a PC104 board? I can't think of anything that is samller, besides, it's made for industrial use. As far as a VGA display goes, check out MCM Electronics and get there catalog. I've been kinda toying around with the same idea myself... I thought that it would be really cool to have a touch screen though.

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-Chris
'85 SE

Yeah the touchscreen is cool, I forgot to mention I have one of those too.

I'm making my own "operating system" with "buttons" for the most common programs.

Ok, I'm also thinking about a night vision camera system. But I can only find IR that will "illuminate" 50' anyone have suggestions?

You can get car alarms that program via computer, but I don't think it should be a part of the computer system. Although I've been toying with speech recognition to start the car And I already programmed a carjack feature using the computer that kills the engine and reprograms the TECII with a bad program. Plus the TecII has a nifty "valet" mode that I can switch on to limit the RPMs to somthing real low, so they won't be going anywhere fast!

Hehe...I'll add an mpeg with me waving my finger in a jurassic park like- uh uh huh, uh uh huh.

[This message has been edited by Joe Torma (edited 08-02-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Joe Torma: Ok, I'm also thinking about a night vision camera system. But I can only find IR that will "illuminate" 50' anyone have suggestions? [This message has been edited by Joe Torma (edited 08-02-2002).]

Isn't there a night vision option on one of the Cadalacs? If I remember correctly, it had two IR lights in the front that projected something like 150'. The image was displayed on the windshield by a ceiling mounted camera... looked way cool. If you can find one that's been wrecked, you could nab'm. I think the HUD systems were made by AC Delco, so the night vision systems may be as well. You could try and contact them directly. Oh yeah, once you've got it done, you have to post pics... lots of pics.

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-Chris
'85 SE

quote Originally posted by newfie: Anyways I think I'm putting this post way off topic, sorry.

Original designs and technological breakthrougs are not made by staying on topic. ;>

What is a PC104? How would you apply it? If you are talking about what I think you are, say more.

I thought about touch screen, and there would definately have to be a way to control the entire thing easily. One thought is to mount a trackball into the center console somehow, or just stuff it behind the passenger seat when not in use I guess. I was thinking that I would want the software to run under windows so that I can use a computer for whatever while I am in the car... there are millions of reasons why. So I was thinking about mounting a full keyboard either under the dash (pass side) real inconspiciously, or agian, behind the passenger seat. But if there was a numeric key pad available, you could easily navigate menus and select whatever with cursor keys. There are simple add on 10 key pads that would work for that. The really wild thought that I had was to chop up a maxiswitch programable keyboard and somehow use the programable functions of the keyboard to remap the 17 keys of the keypad to do whatever you wanted them to. Even if the device were not permanently fixed to a part of the car, but tethered by a cable that would be fine. As long as it was reasonbly easy to access.

To attach the alarm to the entire system use one of those IO Cards, and wire the two devices up (easy to say) When the shock sensor goes off, the computer will know it has a shock. You could even event log the whole thing, or mount sensors to the windows for windows breaks. Microwave as well. I would never trust microwave alone, but if the computer knows to wait for 2 sensors before going wild... No matter what you wanted, you could get so detailed as to have a PA system with a voice screaming to get away from the vehicle, just run a sound card to a bullhorn, and play .wav files or .mp3's based on simple logic. With enough AI you could have the car start screaming help me someone just broke my window. Or get away from the front of the car. When everything is operated by custom software, you can do whatever you want.

One thought is to use 2 sound cards, one for PA and one for driver information. I wouldnt run the Sound system through a sound card unless you were going to pay out the nose for one that you arent going to hear line noise or bus noise. If you dont know what I mean turn your computer speakers up all the way.
BZZZZZZ I would however run from the Audio card to a line in on the reciever deck. That way you could play MP3's.
With driver information through voice you could have your car tell you everything from good morning beautiful, to telling you its current temperature and engine status... or whatever. When it starts overheating it could tell you through its voice. It could tell you how much fuel was remaining. etc.

Mount a radar detector to the system and it could nag like a girlfriend to slow down.

Mount multpile radar dectectors and have a real threat assesment system. Add a jammer for good electronic counter measures.

time to stop.

JesterFox

Dude, yer nuts.

Essentially, PC104 is a different way of building a PC w/ a different form facter... one that is MUCH smaller than most normal stuff. You can get all of your I/O controllers w/ chip (sound, nic, serial, kyb, etc) in a form factor that is about the size of two decks of playing cards set side by side. Advantages? No case needed. If using some of the VIA cpu's, no cooling is needed, really small, your car is already DC, so most of your power supply issues are already solved. Type in "PC104" in google and a bunch of stuff will come up. You cold save even more space & power by booting off of a flash card. Oh... and Windoze bad... Linux good.

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-Chris
'85 SE

I am not sure if I can contribute anything here that hasn't already been brought up, but I can try. As far as inverters, don't use them. I use a custom build ATX DC-DC power supply that is no bigger than a a tape measure. It also has a ciruit built into it that will put the computer into standby after a certain amount of time. It will also eliminate the ripple voltage when starting the car, as well as keeping the computer booted up so you can eliminate that boot up time.

I have also used many different LCD's and anything will work as good as any other. The PS1 LCD add-ons work well when taken out of the casing and only run $125 for a 6.4". I have also used Datalux units too. I have used touchscreens quite exclusively for quite awhile since this eliminates the keyboard and mouse issue. I never really used the keyboard that much and I have on-screen keyboards anyways.

I have also used the data input boards as well for importing data. I had built a system that monitored all the amplifiers in a competition audio car, including water temperature, amp temperature, amp on/off control and alot of other things. It was also coupled with the Alpine processor to drive the EQ via Ethernet cable.

I have since abandoned this project as the owner of the car decided not to pay me for my time. All of this technology is out there right now, you just need to search around. I have over 900 hours invested in this project and I would like to see somebody get something out of it.

Questions? Fire away!

quote Originally posted by 87fastback: I am not sure if I can contribute anything here that hasn't already been brought up, but I can try. As far as inverters, don't use them. I use a custom build ATX DC-DC power supply that is no bigger than a a tape measure. It also has a ciruit built into it that will put the computer into standby after a certain amount of time. It will also eliminate the ripple voltage when starting the car, as well as keeping the computer booted up so you can eliminate that boot up time.

Ok, this sounds good, but where can I get one. Why not use an inverter? It would come in handy to have a 120VAC outlet...dunno why the Vibes have em though.

I would like to hear about the amp monitoring since i will be competing(I guess next year) with it. I have 5 Amps and ~7000watts. It would be useful to monitor temperature, etc.

Details please!

quote Originally posted by Joe Torma: Dude, yer nuts.

heheheh-Just an active imagination. It will never really happen.

Caldera Linux all the way! The only problem is that I cant program in C++, and can in VB. So I am stuck with win, lose, or reboot if I want custom software. (For now)

I was talking to FieroGod last night and his laptop (that he got from me) uses a 12v battery and charging system. So it occurrs to me that if I can sort out the power circuits in the laptop to use as a power supply, I may also me able to use the laptops power management and battery charging and monitoring circuits. Attch them to an optima gel cell (Yello top you say?) that is slaved to the main battery, and I should be able to run the system for a couple days between charges. In adition to that I already have the battery monitoring system and software in place. (Laptop PM)

So, if a guy used that setup with the smaller PC Boards... there is potential and it is still in the hobbyist price range, and have all the advantages of a more expensive design.

I think that if I were to really want to do this, I would pick a couple things at a time rather than trying to rewire the whole car at once. Just do the lights first and get a good start to see how it would work. But I have a million other project wo waste the money on. Like the engine install.

JesterFox.

As far as the inverter, they are unreliable. If you have them on and shut the vehicle off and try to restart it, they will overload from the voltage spike. This is especially true if you are at the maximum amount of load for them to begin with. This ATX power supply I have will not do that. It is designed to sense that voltage spike and eliminate it it, as well as reset the time control circuit so it won't go into hibernate mode.

The other area of concern that I have seen everyone talking about it motherboards. I have used the Shuttle SV24 and Biscuit PC boards with great success. The biscuit series allows alot of add-ons, but the Shuttle already has a bunch of stuff built into it. TV out, firewire, ethernet and a bunch more. The biscuit is my choice since it is small and has GPS add-ons (or anything that is PC104). I also use standard notebook hard drives as they are low power consumption and small.

The amp control project has been killed, but I will offer up any info. one might need. The software I had for it was browser based, but it will not be released to the public. I will however provide links to web sites that sell the proper equipment for this and everything else.

Try out some of these:
http://www.icircuits.com/ http://www.carlcds.com/index2.htm http://www.j-works.com/ http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/cindex.html http://members.aon.at/oernst/jics/index2.html

These were just a few that drov my imagination from the onset, but you guys can go from there. Let me know if you want one of these power supplies, I will get ahold of the builder as he lives local.

PC104 price isn't too bad. Around $300 - $700 depending on how fast you want to go. I've also found some stuff on E-Bay.

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-Chris
'85 SE

quote Originally posted by 87fastback: These were just a few that drov my imagination from the onset, but you guys can go from there. Let me know if you want one of these power supplies, I will get ahold of the builder as he lives local.

Thanks for the links. How much for the power supply? Also can he make the motherboard wires a bit longer than normal? I need them about 16" long.

HERE is a 800mhz via Eden computer with cace(itx=small) and dc-dc power built in, it's also fanless for $195. I hear it can use winXP and can play DVD & Divix 4 encoded files fine

quote Originally posted by cancerkazoo: <snip> (itx=small) <snip>

Wow.. thats cool.
http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/Images/via800-800.jpg

well I guess the 533 version is fanless. Looks like a fan on the 800 to me. I was reading off the spec list

That is cool, anyone know of anybody who had used one of these for a project? That little CPU gave me alot of ideas.

quote Originally posted by newfie: That little CPU gave me alot of ideas.

Hehhehheehhehe

maybe you should just worry about geting your car running first!?! LOL

hows it comming ?

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Rich
Sioux Falls SD

92' BMW 325i-cold air intake, borla exhaust,strut tower brace,
97 Eclipse GS-T -

RICE as defined by me: A poor Bastard Car(of any type), who has been modified and or "decorated" by a person who knows little about his car. Rice is caused by a person not a car....a person is rice and thus "infects" his car. (It just seems to happen to Honda's alot).
Rice is not there car but it is the driver....anyone who knows little and does alot of "mods" he hears about or sees in ads then infects the car with rice(kinda like a gossip queen for cars).

Don't want to let this post die yet, you got me interested in a project. basically I only want a computer to run/play mp3's or video clips and be able to support my engine managment system. Basically monitor and update on the fly. I think I'm gonna go with a Haltech engine managment system so that wouldn't be a problem communication through the serial port. I was checking out www.mp3car.com Theres alot of knowledable people there. I see alot of people run windows based software. SEems like that would cause problems when shutting on and off the car so much.

quote Originally posted by Dumba$$: maybe you should just worry about geting your car running first!?! LOL hows it comming ?

hehehehe, you got it. I visited it last week and will go visit it tommorow I think. (Nick is around today so we are being stupid, yeah for us.) The shift linkage, throttle, and clutch slave are mounted. I think he just had to finish the shift cable bracket. Then it is off to the exhaust shop. Hopefully this week or next.

I have the interior stripped out, and am very slowly working on it. It seems that every time I touch it I wish that I would have left it alone. Brad will be bringing me new dash, because he feels sorry for my mistakes. I tried to do major repairs with a vinyl kit, and it just didnt work out for me.

I did the pass door panel yesterday, and like the look, hate the quality. So, I will strip it, and if it is bad.. Brad will bring me one of them too... Along with a stack of other parts including fuel lines, window crank clip, spring for ebrake, ... a bunch of crap.

I think that as soon as it is out of the exhaust shop I want to tear it apart again.. but I am not sure. Maybe I will work in the body, maybe I wont.

To make the car run I will need to: Attach the intake somehow, finish the wiring harness and put it on the engine, and I think that will be enough to make it go... after I put the interior back in.

The interior wont be finished until my mother reupholsters the seats, and since she is in Saudi Arabia (PSAB) for the next couple weeks, that may be a while.

My mom could kick your mom's a$$.

JesterFox

I'm suprized none of you have heard about or are using an I-Opener. At about $250 for darn close to a full-fledged laptop, you can't go wrong.

Its got a real DIY character to it, like soldering on your own hardware upgrades and the like.

I'm all thumbs with electronics. I'm buying one with a 6GB HD, AMD K6-2 450, 128MB RAM, audio line-out, and internal ethernet for $200!