Maybe if you try all stainless, I think it can sound better than normal steel(I may be crazy) Equal length headers (stainless) true dual exhaust, X-pipe and some truly high $$$ resonators from Lotus and you may get the Lotus sound. the Ferrari sound comes from large pistons and short stroke, like a crotch rocket motor. that it something we can't realy get in our cars. Most times you hear a ferrari go by makeing music it's crusing like 3000-6000 rpm. some of them don't redling till 9000-11000 RPM. unless you slap one of those 1300cc 170hp turbo suzuki is it Hybusa(SP) 4-cyl and use the stock 4-2-1 Ti. header right out where the rear tag goes. that would be Ferrari like.
[my spelling sux ]
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08:30 AM
87FieroGTx Member
Posts: 2630 From: Bath, New York, USA Registered: Jun 2001
the Ferrari and Lotus get their sound from twin dual over head cam high compression engines with pulse width messaged headers. to get a similar sound you'll need carbon packed muffler from Tubi or Brullen (i've got a Brullen) the long tube headers helped a bit but destroyed the low end torque on my car. a 2.25" single Brullen, with dual ANSA or Brullen resonated 2" twin resonated tips will yeild you the sound your looking for. but it won't be cheap.. Lotus and Ferrari don't make their exhaust systems.. Tubi, Ansa, and Remus (French aftermarket) make them.. brullen is a US manufacturer of high end exhaust systems components. along with B&B Triflow, and Avtech. (Avtech sponcer/sole commisioner of the Vector W12) you'll have a better chance with the N* or 3.4 TDC than with a SBC.
the ferrari v8s are small displacements. If you want the same sound from an american engine, you need to use a V6. The exhaust system with IRM turbo kit does do a great job of duplicating the sound. especially if you install a higher reving V6. Any one will attest to the sound of my kitcar Ferrari. My engine is a moderately built 3.1 from a Z24. redline is over 7,000 rpm. Ive actually outrun several real 308s in mine.
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11:04 AM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
I have a built 3.2(Very well done by Keven Hurly designs in upstate NY) ported TB/Manafold, K&N, open exhaust(Too open for me), high flow cat, Chip, small NOS kit(75-100), 205/55/r16's Good years. And lots of free mods.
I have also taken some weight out of the car(Spare tire, jack sound ubsorbing shiz), It pulls like a freight train in 1st and 2nd then drops off in 3rd, I think 3rd may be broken (It makes a zaping noise like a tatoo gun) /shrug
I find the auto trans hooks up much beter than my old 87gt but I'm still going to swap in a 5 speen when I have the $$$$
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11:34 AM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
Oh... uum .. with a g-tech my 0-60 is 4.5-4.7.. on a dyno it's 4.9.. at commerence ( Commerece International Raceway) it's 4.9.. and my car makes a bit more hp/tq than yours. you might wanna have your car dynoed for a more accurate reading of what your really making. the following are dyno centers in NY.. i'm sure one is close to ya.
my auto GT is a full 1/2 second faster then the SE 4spd i had running a similar nitrous kit to what you have (NOS #05120).. well way less hp but still... my 60' times are better with the auto. uum does it only make that "zappin" noise under nitrous? either way thats probably detonation and you need to rejet your nitrous system.. put larger injectors and change you ign system. what nitrous jetting are you using? did you change your fuel system and ignition with the larger displacement engine?
Dyno shops.. usually $50-$65 for 3-5 runs www.engineered.net is where i run mine. video of it on my web page.
Dyno Sport Performance 1011 Lakeville Road New Hyde Park 11040 Tel. 516-775-1840
Lizzard Racing 20 Eads St. West Babylon 11704 Tel. 516-420-1476
My N* has true dual exhaust with 2 cats and no resonators or mufflers. At idle, you don't hear a thing, but when you stomp on it, that's when music is made. Ferraris are much the same. You don't hear them until they are up in the rpm range. I love the sound of the Northstar and if you are gonna do a kit, especially a lambo or Ferrari than go with a V8. You'll regret not having the raw power behind you. All show and no go . Not knocking the V6 it's just disappointing when you see a nice kit car with the stock engine. No disrespect intended.
------------------ Jay
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03:14 PM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
One reason an American designed engine will never have the high pitched rpm wail of a Ferrari or Lotus is the engine design itself. Lotus and Ferrari V8's use 180 degree crankshafts which result in the engine operating like two high RPM 4-cylinder engines joined at the hip.
This doesn't mean you can't make an American V6 or V8 sound sporty or aggressive, but making it sound exactly like a Ferrari is pretty much impossible unless you actually bolt in a Lotus, Ferrari, or similar engine.
Ken S.
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04:35 PM
87FieroGTx Member
Posts: 2630 From: Bath, New York, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Chris Moore has a Northstar too. It does sound good, but its still the american, throaty roar which is my no means a bad thing. Im not for sure but I think its around 300 hp, and my 6 w/turbo is only slightly less (25). Im pretty sure too that the caddy engine is not a very high revver. Dont have any figures handy, but id say 5500 for northstar. any help here? Id guess that the caddy is very good at low end torque, but it tapers off at high speed. Mine on the other hand, increases torque as speed increases to a certain point. Im still pulling strong at 150 under full boost. Remember im basing my knowlege on the caddy on past engines, as Ive never got too involved with the Northstar and could be way off. (American V8s go...RRRRRRRRRRRR !!! Exotics go...WWWWWWEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHH!!!
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[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 11-14-2001).]
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07:13 PM
Jay Member
Posts: 1107 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: May 2000
The 300hp Northstar redlines at around 6500 rpm which isn't that bad. I got the wrong dash with mine (It shows redline at 5250) so needless to say I'm exchanging it this week. Just remember, Italians aren't 1/4 mile racers, or stop light to stop light racers per say. They are ment for high reving, long distance, high speed trips. Hence the term GT (Grand Turismo, Italian for Grande Tourer) If you were to hear a Ferrari at idle you wouldn't be able to tell the engine was running, at least not the new ones.
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07:36 PM
KRMFiero Member
Posts: 2711 From: Providence, RI Registered: Sep 2000
Farrarri sound? My SHO Yahamha engine... 6cyl, facroty goverened to 7300 red line, yamaha claims it will sfaly re to 8500 rpm.... these engines sound awsome, DOHC....
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08:19 PM
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
The Northstar is a completely different engine than you're expecting
At 4.6litres, it's a small-ish (for an American motor) V8, and while it's torque curve is flatter than an LS1 (yeah, *LS1*) it does like to make it's peak power up high.
300bhp at 6,000rpm. That's revving.
'Red line' on the Caddys that have Northstars is 6500rpm on the tachs. Stock ECUs kick a rev limiter in at 6750, and I assure you it's still pulling VERY VERY HARD at 6750.
The powerband is just broad, flat, and wide, and gets more and more fun the furthur you dare to probe it, and it never quits!
It's enough to move a 4500lb caddy to over 150+mph.
Ferrari and Lotous get their sound largely from being not engines, but tuned musical instruments! (that, and a 180degree crank shaft and ascendant firing order. 'normal' v8s have a 90degree chank configuration to minimize vibration <a 180 design is inherently unbalanced in the secondary. The power gain however means that almost all racing V8s are 180degree.>.)
You can also hack up an exhaust and make a 180degree piping system onto a '90' degree engine.
I may try this on my Northstar, god knows I want to! Time to check the wallet, and warm up the welder...
Best! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
I can't really describe what my L98 sounds like, but I can tell you when I put my foot in it everybody, I mean everyone, looks with their jaw dropped.
400hp going in sanderson headers, into a 3 inch collector, into a modified flowmaster, and out the stock tips. Thanks to Lingenfelter the shift point is 5,700 (shift light set at 5,400 just because you'll gain 300 in quick reaction time, damn thing picks up rpm so quick) and it pulls strong up to 6,200 before it starts to nose over. Between 4,000 and 6,200 it sounds like a Ferrari that had massive doses of steroids!!!
I'll have to borrow a recorder to get it on tape someday and maybe get someone here to post it on their site. I don't even play music most of the time because it sounds so sweet.
Sorry, just had add my comments, not meaning to brag too much.
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11:42 PM
PFF
System Bot
Nov 15th, 2001
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
Awesome Send me the file once you do (ben@cartsys.com) and I'll gladly post it for ya
Infact, send me any and everything you have on your car and I'll post
Best! Ben
quote
Originally posted by California Kid: Between 4,000 and 6,200 it sounds like a Ferrari that had massive doses of steroids!!!
I'll have to borrow a recorder to get it on tape someday and maybe get someone here to post it on their site. I don't even play music most of the time because it sounds so sweet.
Sorry, just had add my comments, not meaning to brag too much.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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12:41 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
same as always. $$$$$ = speed. ive got about $2500 + the $3000 IRM turbo system, its good for 7500 rpm. Ernie Elliott gets 9000 rpm and about 500 hp out of ford 3.8 V6. costs about $30,000
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12:30 PM
Nov 16th, 2001
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
Well, you could start with a 3.5 litre 'shortstar' motor (which is a Northstar missing two cylinders, btw.)
Then I would imagine that the Northstar hop-up parts from the guys at Cadilac Hotrod Fabricators (http://www.chrfab.com) would fit.
Namely, new valve springs, and solid lifters.
Vola.
You're now good to 8,000rpm.
Just like that. (Northstar figures, though I'd expect the same potential from the 3.5. Stock Northstar is set to rev-limit at 6750 from the factory, in a Caddilac...)
I'd also imagine Chrfab would work the heads (just like on a Northstar) and adapt (just cut?) the cams for a few more bucks.
All told, you can build a "450 plus" hp Northstar, so a ~320bhp 3.5 shouldn't be out of the question...
And all of this occuring at eight grand
Best! Ben
quote
Originally posted by 87FieroGTx: How hard would it be to build a 7,000-9,000rpm V6?
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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