does anyone out there have a Fiero running a Built S.B pontiac 400. is this just a standard application of the V-8 kit, or is a s.b. 400 to big.. cause i know where i could get a s. b. 400.. and that would be cool going all pontiac power... any pics of a s.b. 400/ performance numbers would be appriciated

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Bahh.. V-6, who needs it.. i got me some 4.10's

first off a real pontiac engine is a big block not a small block. Actually its neither a small block or a big block, its a pontiac. but within the pontiac community they are reffered to as big blocks. If it is a small block it is a chevy. If it is really a pontiac engine it will go in a fiero, but you would be best off to mount it in there transverse with a toronado trans axle. I know of a couple of these around, but instead of the 400 they went with the 455, which is actually the same size block. One thing I have learned in the past couple of years working on cars, anything is possible, anything you dream, any idea in the world, how much money do you have?

Seems strange that a 301/4.9L would be considered a 'big block'.

quote Originally posted by LarryB: Seems strange that a 301/4.9L would be considered a 'big block'.

In "MY" Pontiac community, the 301 is considered a boat anchor. An ill advised attempt to please the smog police. Also in "MY" Pontiac community, we never refer to 400 or 455 and "big" blocks. When someone does, it becomes obvious that he know little about Pontiacs and is probably trying to BS his way into a conversation. Except for the casting numbers, you can't tell a 350 from a 455 because they are all the SAME size block.

To answer the original question... The main reason for not installing a true Pontiac motor transversely into a Fiero instead of a SBC is probably the width... the Pontiac V8 is about 6"-7" wider that the SBC (measured at the heads). I have seen pictures of a Pontiac V8 install longitudinally using a early Cadillac transmission.

However, since the exhaust ports on head of a SBC point almost horizontal, when you add the exhaust manifolds the motor's width grows by approximately 6". The Pontiac's exhaust ports point downward at about 45 degrees. It's exhaust manifold don't stick out nearly are far as the SBC. So, conceivably, it may fit. But, you may have to do some mild "creative" bodywork to the firewall and trunk. The length of both are about the same -- approximately 41 inches.

Other issues are: the oil filter port is on the side, just below the exhaust manifold clearance is also a concern. The starter is on the opposite side from the SBC, I'm not sure if there is a clearance issue but it is different from the SBC.

Another point of concern is cooling. Having owned and driven Pontiac 350s and 400s, I know that they are very susceptible to overheating problems. I belong to a Firebird chat list and the topic of overheating is common. Pontiac even devised a simple thermal switch that, when the engine temperature reaches, say, 230 degrees (Can't recall the exact temp) it switches a vacuum port that retards the timing to make the motor run cooler. Unfortunatly, it also robs the motor of HP. You would most likely have to have a special radiator built. Archie's might work if you can get enough are to flow through it.

Another issue is weight. The Pontiac V8 weighs more than the SBC but less than a BBC. If you used an aluminum intake and some aluminum heads, you could dramatically reduce the overall weight -- probably less than a SBC with cast iron heads.

Lastly, no one makes a kit to do the swap. You could use Archie's kit with an adapter so it would bolt to the Pontiac (Chevy and Pontiac are different). The Chevy to B-O-P adapters are only about $50.

All in all, it could be worth the experiment, but would not be cheap. I would be interested to hear from Archie if has considered this swap or knows first hand if it's been tried.

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Roy :D
Just another stock Blue 87 GT

quote Originally posted by LarryB: Seems strange that a 301/4.9L would be considered a 'big block'.

A 301 is the same size block as the old 326 pontiac from the 60's. It is considered a small block. There are very limited parts for these engines and even less performance parts. The 301's were not high HP or torque. You could get more power out of a Chevy 305 than the 301. I use to have a 1978 Grand Prix with a 301 and a 4bbl carb in my pre-Fiero days. I think the horsepower was around 150. My 2.8 in my SE has more with the mods I've done. The only gain you would get would be torque. The turbo T/A had a 301 with a garret turbo on it and I think it pushed out 175-185 hp.
Like mrfixit states the 350/389/400/428/455 engines all used the same size block. For cost the SBC would be the way to go.

If you want to stay "All Pontiac" your best bet would be an SD4. Very expensive to do but it would be a Pontiac engine.

What is all this concern about having an all Pontiac engine in the Fiero?

The 2.8 is a CHEVY engine! And I believe that the 2.5 was too.

I will have a 350 engine out of a 3rd generation Pontiac Firebird in my 88 Formula ... it too was "made" by Chevy.

Paul

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Paul Herder
88 Formula - Artero kit car doner and 350 TPI
86 SE - 3.2 w/440T4 Transaxle
95 GMC - 350 TBI - Factory "Custom"
92 Mazda Protege - Stock
Sedgwick, KS 67135

[soapbox]

Ok, there's some confusoin about Pontiac blocks (usually is, if you haven't been into them for a while). There are 2 basic flavors of the regular Pontiac V8. A small journal engine with 3" main bearing's and a large journal engine with 3.25" main bearings. Note that the external size and appearance of these blocks is IDENTICAL (minor casting changes and the post next to the distributor aside). The 301 is not the same block as the 326. The 301 is a "low deck" block design and shares NO parts with the regular Pontiac V8. Not that you would want to anyway. 301's are best used as boat anchors, or planters. Even the Turbo 301 only makes about as much HP as a N/A 3800. And there's a smaller version of the 301, the 265. WHY?!?!?

The breakdown is like this:
Small Journal: 326, 350, 400
Large Journal: 389, 421, 428, 455
Boat Anchor: 301, 301 turbo, 265

On most Pontiac V8's, the engine size is stamped into the side of the block, between the first and second freeze plug. There are other differences here and there, but for the most part, all intakes and heads from any Pontiac V8 (boat anchor's excluded) will fit on any Pontiac V8.

[\soapbox]

And yes, the 2.8 V6 is a Chevy engine, but the Iron Duke and Tech IV 2.5's are pure Pontiac. When they stopped making V8's, they switched production over to the 2.5. It's basically half of the 301. - So it's only half of a boat anchor.

Interesting side note: The last Pontiac 400 was built in 1978. (79 used the Olds 403 - bleck) Pontiac knew that 79 would be the Trans Am's 10th Anniversary, so they built a bunch of extra 400's and stockpiled them so they could be had in 10th Anniversary Trans Ams in 79. The only way to get the Pontiac V8 was if you ordered it with WS6 suspension and the 4-speed. Automatics got the 403. You can tell the apart from outside by looking at the shaker. The 403s will read "6.6 Litre" on the shaker, while the real Pontiac engined cars will read "T/A 6.6"
Assuming of course, the decals haven't been changed over the years.

here is one with a Pontiac 455 in it.

Rob

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qwikgta@yahoo.com
88 T-Top coupe, 65K, Header no Cat w/ Supertrapp, 16" GTZ rims, short shifter, swaybar, open element air cleaner, hood vents, clear tails.
http://www.homestead.com/robsfieroproject
http://www.vafieros.com

I thought about doing this awhile back but it would involve to much cutting for my taste. however if anyone wants to try this I have A nice pontiac 400 block, heads etc. that ill sell to them very cheap. (i sold my GTO and bonieville) And I would like to find a home for this stuff.

I did not say the 301 nad 326 were the same block, Just that their physical sizes were the same.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: I did not say the 301 nad 326 were the same block, Just that their physical sizes were the same.

Actually, they're not. They appear similar, because they use similar styling, but the low deck design of the 301 block does give it different external dimensions. Perhaps not enough to notice by the untrained eye, but enough to keep parts from swapping. You could tell the difference if a 301 and a 326 were side by side. You couldn't do that with the other sizes (casting nubmers aside).

Not trying to nit pick, just clarify.