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Heel-n-Toe Driving by Kelvin Vivian
Started on: 08-26-2001 03:16 AM
Replies: 13
Last post by: 84Bill on 08-27-2001 02:06 PM
Kelvin Vivian
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Report this Post08-26-2001 03:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kelvin VivianSend a Private Message to Kelvin VivianDirect Link to This Post
What in the world is "heel and toe" driving? Is it fancy feet movements while shifting through the gears? Also, how do you shift through the gears without pressing down the clutch? I believe I've heard somewhere of clutchless shifting...

On another note, I was able to keep up with a C4 Corvette in my 87 SE 4-cyl. The Corvette may not have been accelerating full bore (plus he had a passenger), but he did rev up to challenge me, I had my accelerator nailed to the floor through 1st and 2nd. It's a relatively light 87 SE, as it does not have PW, PM, or PL, but it does have AC.

Kelvin
1987 SE 4-cyl, 5-spd Isuzu, factory quad exhaust, holley side scoop, K&N air filter, spoiler, GT 15-in grey rims, Burgungy/Grey

1988 GT, T-top, 5-spd


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Phantom Rage
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Report this Post08-26-2001 04:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Phantom RageSend a Private Message to Phantom RageDirect Link to This Post
“Heal and toe driving” refers to a technique of braking with the toe area of your foot while your heal (of the same foot) modulates the accelerator. This is mainly used in conjunction with a standard transmission, but I guess it could be used for an automatic transmission, but not as well. The goal is to keep your engine revs in its sweet spot/power band while entering/exiting throughout a turn. It takes a little practice to get used to it, plus the closer the distance from your brake pedal to your gas pedal the easier it will be to accomplish. The Fiero’s pedals are a little too far apart for my liking, as well as the uneven height of both pedals from the respective floor panel. Pedal covers can be used to help solve the distance problem but the uneven height problem still exist (at least in my Fiero.) It may seem like a waste of time, but it does add up. This is perhaps of vital importance to motors that have little torque, that make most of their power in the upper rpm band, e.g. Vtec.

I don’t know about shifting without using your clutch. I have never tried it, but I have heard of such occurrences.

As for your Corvette incident, I’ll leave that one alone. I do however think that you better put on your flame-retardant suit.

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firstfiero
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Report this Post08-26-2001 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for firstfieroSend a Private Message to firstfieroDirect Link to This Post
My friend shifts his little beat around toyota that he uses to deliver in without pushing in the clutch. when he hits red line he just jams it straight into the next gear without taking his foot off the gas. He says he can't wait to get his integra back to do the same thing. My oppinion....I wouldn't do it. no way no how! Not to my fiero ever.
I'll leave the corvette thing alone....but thanks for the info on heel toe. I never knew what that ment.

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Slammed Fiero
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Report this Post08-26-2001 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Slammed FieroSend a Private Message to Slammed FieroDirect Link to This Post
heel and toe downshifting is used to downshift a car without upsetting the chassis. A massive "drop" downshift can cause a car to act adversley. As in a fiero's case the rear end gets light. It is hard to heel toe ina fiero with a stock gas pedal , I swapped to an aftermarket set of pedals that has provisions for heel toe downshifting. It allows you to come into a corner and downshift (before reacing the corner) without upsetting anything. Basically you hear the car downshift but the motion of the engine stays the same. IT'snot an easy technique to learn (espically in a fiero) and notone you need ont he street really.. You can't really do it in an automatic , you would have to shift to neutral , rev the engine to the speed of the next lowest gear , then slam it in that ger...not reccomended.


JM

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artherd
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Report this Post08-26-2001 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for artherdClick Here to visit artherd's HomePageSend a Private Message to artherdDirect Link to This Post
"heel and toe" allows you to perfectly rev-match a downshift, WHILE you are on the brakes. Optionally (and if you're really cool) in a turn :)

The idea is to take the car right up to it's ashesion limits, then go down a gear, *withought* entering a spin, hence the rev-matched throttle blip. otherwise the tyres would skip/slide as they tried to take up the momentum of the crank :(

It's mainly a racing trick, but is also just fun while driving around, and infact if done properly, will be easiest on your transmission and driveline.


Clutchless shifting: Not a good idea in a Syncromesh automotive transmission.

This is for 'crash' gearboxes (if you don't know what one is, you sure don't have one :) :) withought syncros.

That said, after I put the Red Line MTL in my car, I was able to do this... once... I was somehow dumb enough to botch the clutch (brought it back in way too soon) but lucky enough to get the revs juuuust right, then, I was in gear. no lurch, no jerk, perfect.

When you do not let up off the gas, that is called "power shifting" and quite hard on the car.

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red
88 Formula, Silver
87 Coupe, Metalic Red
"Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
-Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

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Report this Post08-26-2001 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post
I will add this example to help with what everyone else has said- If you are coasting, and push in the clutch and let the engine come to an idle, downshift and let off the clutch (don't overrev your engine!)you could see how heel and toe driving helps. In most rear drive cars, the drag of the engine will cause the rear tires to break traction. If you did that while in a hard cornering situation, it could cause a nasty spin. Now, if you are coming to that same corner, hard on the brakes and need to accelerate hard coming out of the corner, you need to be in the best gear for the powerband of the engine while in the corner. So while on the brakes with your heel, hit the clutch and with your toe rev the engine so when you downshift there is no sudden load on the rear tires when you let off the clutch. Then you will need less brake and should be able to make a smooth transition from braking to acceleration. Oh crap that was a long response- I am turning into Ed!!!!!!!!
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Report this Post08-26-2001 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post

Cooter

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oops- double post.

[This message has been edited by Cooter (edited 08-26-2001).]

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post08-26-2001 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
About not using clutch. You have to use it to start from a stop, but not to change to 2,3,4,5. It also takes practice with a particular car, you have to be able to match RPMs and road speed for the gear selected. at a given RPM, you can just 'feel' in the transmission when it will mesh without grinding. Its a little harder in Fieros because the linkage is pretty sloppy feeling. A direct linkage like in a normal front engine/rw drive is the easiest. You can sorta get the feel when you come up to a stop sign or lite and try moving the gearshift to neutral without using the clutch. Youll feel when it will release by keeping some slight pressure on shifter and a tiny bit of gas. When its all matched right, the lever will go to neutral very easy
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starfighter007@msn.com
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Report this Post08-26-2001 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for starfighter007@msn.comSend a Private Message to starfighter007@msn.comDirect Link to This Post
yep I would keep that vette experince to your self thats gonna be a tough one to sell no matter how much you can imbelish
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Tigger
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Report this Post08-26-2001 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TiggerSend a Private Message to TiggerDirect Link to This Post
I "heel-n-toe" almost every downshift. Must be I have big feet.

As far as the no cluch shifting, yes it can be done however I wouldn't recommend doing it unless you are really good at it or like replacing trans.

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Kelvin Vivian
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Report this Post08-26-2001 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kelvin VivianSend a Private Message to Kelvin VivianDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the info, I've read of "heel-and-toe" driving in car mags and I never knew what it referred to.

Plus I heard of clutchless shifting, but I thought, you would always have to press down the clutch to disengage the gears...

As for the the C4 Corvette incident, he probably was not accelerating full bore (as I mentioned), but he was accelerating hard enough for me to keep up with him with my accelerator nailed to the floor. The 87 SE I have looks like it should have plenty of "GO". It has the aero front facia, quad exhaust pipe, 15 in grey GT rims, and spoiler... But it has the 87 duke in it. When the vette blipped his engine at the light, I thought, oh well, let's see what happens... I nailed it through 1st and 2nd gears... hehe... Car made me proud.

*Dons on his flame retardant suit and goggles*

KV
87 SE 4-cyl, 5-spd
88 GT T-top, 5-spd

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Ed
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Report this Post08-27-2001 12:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EdClick Here to visit Ed's HomePageSend a Private Message to EdDirect Link to This Post
I've shifted without the clutch many times in the past, but not in my Fiero.

In fact, I had a Corvair whose clutch cable broke in the middle of the night in a bad part of L.A. You learn real quickly how to shift without the clutch! Just match up the RPM's and you can go up or down.

You can also start up without a clutch by getting it into first before you stop and the engine dies. Then just start up the car in gear and away you go. Tough on the driveline, but it works in an emergency.

You'd have to depress the clutch in a Fiero to start it because of the lock-out, but the lock-out can be defeated by a paper clip or similar.

Bob Bondurant's book, "High Performance Driving" has a detailed explanation of heel and toe. I have heard from racers, however, and you can jump in here, that you can do functionally the same thing by rolling your foot from side to side. That is, outside of foot and arch of foot.

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ChadMan
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Report this Post08-27-2001 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ChadManSend a Private Message to ChadManDirect Link to This Post
I've wondered about this too. I am not flexible enough to put the ball of my right foot on the brake and my heel on the gas.

I took a high-performance driving class at Mid-Ohio in an 84 Sport Coupe. At the end of the backstraight I would brake to the point of near lockup with the left edge of my right foot, then blip the throttle with the right edge of my right foot to bring the revs up when changing down to 3rd gear. Does this count as heel-and-toeing?

I can't do this in the 88...the brake pedal is too firm and doesn't go down far enough for me to reach the gas.

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84Bill
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Report this Post08-27-2001 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
Humm No one mentioned Turbo.
Almost all race drivers of turbo cars do this to keep the boost up while braking and cornering. The older turbos with (realitivly) heavy turbine wheels took a few seconds to spool up after diving into a corner so to prevent the "turbo lag" Heel and Toe driving was necessary.
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