One other thing on the Shelby site...... They have contacted me about supplying kits if they ever sell one. So I think they have given up on making these copies. Also I think that this V-8 page has been "un-linked" from their site. Try this, go to their Home page then try to find your way back to the V-8 page. It appears to me that all the links to the V-8 page from the rest of their site have been killed.
Just read the other threads Archie. Heres a comment from a mechanically stupid artist and body styling man. Your kit is probably the only one that would even be allowed in Australia. Soon as you cut or even dent a chassis rail in this country they call in the engineers at big bucks to make you prove it hasn't weakened the car. So the others probably wouldn't be registerable.
Now a couple of questions as I am so up in the air whether to do a V8 conversion or a 3.8 V6 one I need to know a couple of things. The hole you cut in the RH side of the Fiero body to clear the waterpump. Has that been deemed structurally safe? I am assuming so after looking at my car. The other question. Whats it like changing spark plugs in a V8 Fiero on the firewall side? Are they accesible? Also I am getting lazy in my old age and just don't get as much fun out of a 5 speed as I used too. Plus RHD conversions make for sh1tty pedal positions with a manual anyway. How well can the Auto trans be beefed up to handle the power of a V8. Is there different types of Autos in different year Fieros? What does that usually cost? I wont be drag racing it or abusing it, much, well except at the Nats once a year and I am looking at an injected V8 out of a 86 or later car and want to get it built to about 250 to 300 HP. Nothing to wild.
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09:14 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by AusFiero: Just read the other threads Archie.
The hole for the W/P drive is a 3" Diameter hole in the sheet metal of the inner fender well. That sheet metal is non-structural. Alternately, you can use one of many electric waterpumps. I've been doing some extensive testing of the CSI Elec. W/P this summer and it works very well. It still requires a 3" Dia. hole in the sheet metal but nothing sticks out into the WW from it & the plastic inner WW liner covers it up.
Changing plugs is easier than in the 6 banger. All the plugs can easily be reached from underneath, I figure 18 minutes and 2 beers.
The auto trans can be beefed-up quite a bit. We are just finishing up a 440+HP Automatic Car for drag racing and I'll be giving more reports in the next week. The trans. guy I use charges about $1000 to $1100 to build up the trans.
Hope this helps
Archie
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06:58 PM
WKDFIRO Member
Posts: 1637 From: Cerritos, California, USA Registered: Nov 1999
Fiero Motorsports (Keith Huff) did the R&R with Gary Zumalt with an 88 GT V8 conversion. It was so much nicer than any other conversion that I have seen with a V8. Given a choice, I would rather cut the driver's side sheet metal rather than using an electric water pump. Zumalt's kit was just better designed and assembled. Just because Archie is one of the only V8 Fiero builders left doesn't necessarily make him the best.
Personally I would go 3800 SC or Zumalt copy before doing an Archie kit.
My opinion. Only my opinion. But knowing Archie's past retorts Im still reaching for my flame retardant suit.
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09:48 PM
Jul 30th, 2001
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by WKDFIRO: I would rather cut the driver's side sheet metal rather than using an electric water pump.
That's not sheet metal your cutting, it's frame rail.
I don't intend to offend you but I don't know your name and I hate acknowledging posts by people who won't use their name.
If Keith and Gary are such wonderful guys, then why don't they stop by here and speak for themselves? I remember Keith was going to "partner up" with Gary and before they could announce their partnership, Gary had already put the screws to Keith. I remember seeing that partnership announced in the FOCOA newsletter that was passed out at one of the last Conventions I went to (like 1994 or something). At the time it was announced in print, Keith was telling people the deal fell apart. I think the R&R that you are talking about was mostly Keith trying to become "Part of" that design for the article that was in Kit Car. All that knotching and modifying Keith had to do to that '88 cradle was caused by the movement of the engine/trans to the left in the car & is not necessary with my design. And the Zumwalt kit demanded all those modifications long before Keith ever built one.
If you'd like to discuss the merits of the different designs, at least tell us who you are.
BTW, I think that the fact that I'm still around is a positive reflection of the relative quality of both the product and the vendor.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 07-30-2001).]
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12:04 AM
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
Originally posted by WKDFIRO: I would rather cut the driver's side sheet metal rather than using an electric water pump.
As I stated. Cutting a part of the frame (it isn't a piece of sheet metal) is illegal in this country without a very expensive engineers report. The would insist the frame rails get beefed up once cut. We have very stringent registration requirements in Australia.
How is weakening the frame better?
Because it looks prettier?
I have seen Archies kit in many a car online. It looks pretty damn sweet to me. Clarify how you think the other is better designed. Some engineers stats to back it up for instance.
How can something be better assembled? Assembly is a process not a product. Assembly is relevant to the skill of the person who fitted the kit. Nothing more. That is why I will pay to get whatever engine i chose to get fitted, because I am great with design, bodies and paint but suck at mechanical things.
Personally from talking to some of Archies clients and seeing the backup service he provides, even offering Ferrari_MOMO new video instructions after 7 years I already know when you buy Archies product you buy service as well.
A friend I met in Melbourne Australia a few months back is in the US Navy, hence being in town, had nothing but good comments on Archies kit and service. This guy was based in Hawaii and said he got better service from Archie than he had got from his local mechanics.
I know from personal experience I prefer to buy something from the person who backs his product up and is always there to help. That is what I try to do with all my own clients also and expect nothing less when I buy something.
I will be buying a kit eventually Archie as I know your reputation stands amongst some of the highest in the Fiero community.
I can get a kit here to put a 3.8ltr engine in and come out about AU$4000 cheaper.
Why have I now decided V8 Archie?
Because I contacted the local guy several times in the last 6 weeks and he still hasn't answered my questions and is more interested in my credit card number than my questions.
OK a long rant but I really don't think putting down Archie (calling a product you have no engineering stats on is putting someone down) was warranted in this thread, particularly after he answered my questions so promptly.
I have an Archie kit and I am VERY HAPPY! I am also using the CSI waterpump and its awesome. I have had no cooling problems whatsoever. The kit worked out just fine. I have never done any sort of swap before and this kit went together pretty easy.
As for driving the V8, it drives around much easier than the V6 that was in it. the V8 is a smoother running motor that has gobs of torque all over. I don't downshift out of fifth on the freeway to pass anyone anymore. I only have 1000+miles on my swap but everything has been working great. I have all the confidence in the kit, motor, tranny, and car. The only thing that could go wrong is the stuff I did, wiring, hosing, and correct torque on bolts.
The only negative thing I can think of is the 15-20 mpg with my carb setup.
Jim
87 GT 87 GT V8 T-TOPs
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04:58 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Originally posted by WKDFIRO: Fiero Motorsports (Keith Huff) did the R&R with Gary Zumalt with an 88 GT V8 conversion. It was so much nicer than any other conversion that I have seen with a V8. Given a choice, I would rather cut the driver's side sheet metal rather than using an electric water pump.
I don't want to get caught in a "napalm storm" but feel I have to put my 2 cents in. I own the car that you and Archie are talking about. First let me state that I'm not taking sides on who made or makes a better kit, all kits can be improved upon if you're willing to take the time, research, dollars, and know the right people.
Keith and John expended a great deal of time to make improvements to the Zumalt Kit (at the original owners request) that is in my car. The changes made to the cradle and structural rail are not a "hack job" and if anything the areas affected (very minor)are stronger than they were originally (formed thicker sheetmetal welded in). 30,000 very hard miles has not affected these areas at all, no sign of fatique, paint crack, just like new. Bottom line is that if you cut something away, you'd better replace it with something to reinforce the area correctly.
I know Archie is reading this string and I'll say that from what I have heard, Gary Zumalt did not have the best reputation (and that's being very kind), I'll agree 100% with you on that. But the concept of the Kit he developed does have some true merit, just needed to a few minor changes (with took time and money). I had also heard that he did not support his customers which is the most important part when you do conversions of any type.
The last conversation I had with Keith, he stated that he was pulling away from doing the V8 Conversions, because it was very hard to find customers willing to pay the price to do it right. By right, I mean full details beyond what you get with the conversion kit. As far as I know Keith only put one together like mine, which was done in 1993 and they worked on it for at least 3 months.
I do commend Archie for having a V8 Conversion Kit in the Market Place, and also that he is supporting his customers.
I just want to make a point that anyone getting into V8 Conversions should gather all the knowledge they can, figure out what will make them happy in the long run, within their budget.
Note to Archie: Would you be willing to supply the name / phone for your contact on the "beefed up" auto trans work ??? I know of two people who would be interested going with automatics on their planned conversions.
Tom
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06:59 PM
PFF
System Bot
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by California Kid: Note to Archie: Would you be willing to supply the name / phone for your contact on the "beefed up" auto trans work ??? I know of two people who would be interested going with automatics on their planned conversions.
Tom
Well put Tom, One correction however, I never said Keith did a Hack job. I know him well enough to know that he is capable of good work. All the Cradle and left side frame modifications he had to do were a function of the kit he used & would not have been necessary with my kit because we don't move the engine over to the left in the chassis. But nobody said that he had "Hacked" those modifications.
The Transmission guy I use is right up there in MI.
Jim Paquet, JPT Transmissions 320 Hamman Eaton Rapids, MI 48827 517-663-0578
Hope this helps
Archie
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08:46 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Didn't mean to imply that you or anyone else said it was a "hacked job", it's just that reading the string there seemed to be an implication that the conversion was done with compromises to the cradle and structure of the vehicle, which was not the case on this car. I'm sure there were one's done that don't measure up, because they didn't have the knowledge to do it right, and Zumalt wasn't any help.
Your support on the Forum certaining shows that you care about serving your customers and providing the best you can offer.
Thank you very much for posting the contact on the Transmission Builder, I will pass it on.
Do you know if anyone has ever put a "true" Pontiac V8 (389 or 350, not Chev variant) in a Fiero yet?? Cousin in LA would really love to do one with the old 389 tripower setup with "beefed auto". He must have a way of getting around emissions testing, ha ha.
One more question, has anyone ever done some surgery on a Getrag to mate a larger (direct bolt to block) trans bell housing to it? Reason for question is that it would be real nice to be able to put a larger diameter clutch in there.
Tom
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10:21 PM
Jul 31st, 2001
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
hehe...
I am also using the CSI waterpump and its awesome. I have had no cooling problems whatsoever. The kit worked out just fine. I have never done any sort of swap before and this kit went together pretty easy.
