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rumours, allegations, and things left unsaid by Philphine
Started on: 07-29-2000 10:24 AM
Replies: 22
Last post by: Pontiaddict on 07-31-2000 04:22 PM
Philphine
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Report this Post07-29-2000 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilphineClick Here to Email PhilphineSend a Private Message to PhilphineDirect Link to This Post

at the risk of starting some kind of inter-forum war (there is a post with the same title at the corvette forum0, i've been wondering how many people feel that fieros were purposely under powered to appease the corvette faction.

i've heard this a few times and wonder if it is a general belief of more fiero owners than i think or if it is a small group who also are sure of other conspirasy theories.

uh...don't take that too seriously.

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Report this Post07-29-2000 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for terrykClick Here to Email terrykSend a Private Message to terrykDirect Link to This Post
But that would be like saying that the Chevette was under-powered to appease Corvette.

Of course they were underpowered. They couldn't handle much more power. The Vette is a different market.

Has everyone forgotten the Firebird? Gee that seemed to get 95% of the Vette horsepower.

Now they did take exception to the Grand National.......

[This message has been edited by terryk (edited 07-29-2000).]

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Gold-86SE
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Report this Post07-29-2000 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gold-86SEClick Here to Email Gold-86SESend a Private Message to Gold-86SEDirect Link to This Post

Underpowered nothing! With the Fiero prototypes running at the proving grounds they ran rings around the vette.

GM killed the Fiero because it was selling better than the vette and would eventually threaten the existance of the vette, how's that for conspiracy.

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GT Bastard
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Report this Post07-29-2000 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GT BastardClick Here to visit GT Bastard's HomePageClick Here to Email GT BastardSend a Private Message to GT BastardDirect Link to This Post
Bwahhahahahaha.... I just don't think there was room for another hard-core sports car. GM already had the Camaro, Firebird, Vette, and other stuff I'm probably missing(Monte Carlo SS?) But it's over and done with, and the fact remains that our Fiero's are still respectable and unique sports cars. So... yeah
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Pontiaddict
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Report this Post07-29-2000 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiaddictSend a Private Message to PontiaddictDirect Link to This Post
Yes, the Fiero was underpowered to make the 'Vette look good. So were Firebirds and Camaros. Why do you think that you couldn't get a 350 with a 5 speed in a 82-92. (Yes, the 5 speeds will take the power.) It's also the reason the 67 Firebird wasn't a 2 seater like Pontiac originally wanted. They were made to be a sporty commuter car like the Mustang. They made Grand Nationals because those cars were more of a straight line racer than a sports car.
F-bodys only got the Corvette motors after Chevy was done using them in the Corvette. And still, they weren't made as good as the 'Vette motors

Terryk, you better stop all those people with 3.4s, 3.8s, 4.3, and V8s and tell them, that even though they aren't having problems, Fieros can't handle the power that those engines are putting out.

The Fiero would have been a sports car in the beginning if Pontiac would have had it's way.

Even LS1 Corvettes are underpowered to make ZR1's look good.

[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 07-29-2000).]

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GT Bastard
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Report this Post07-29-2000 02:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GT BastardClick Here to visit GT Bastard's HomePageClick Here to Email GT BastardSend a Private Message to GT BastardDirect Link to This Post
Vettes get 4-bolt mains and fancy fuel rail covers on the LT1's. Whoopty-doo, the horsepower difference compared to f-bods is negligible.
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batboy
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Report this Post07-29-2000 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batboyClick Here to Email batboySend a Private Message to batboyDirect Link to This Post
There were many factors contributing to the demise of the Fiero. One was they never could shake the bad press of the few engine fires of the 84's and the resulting recall. We still hear people call them firetraps even today. This also led to less cars being sold than GM wanted. So, I personally believe it was mainly economics. Yes, there are persistant rumors about the Corvette division complaining about sales being stolen from them and that might of actually had some bearing on the situation too, but that was not the primary reason GM killed the Fiero. It was mainly the all mightly profit margin, as usual.

In reference to the title of the post, someone must be a Collective Soul fan.

[This message has been edited by batboy (edited 07-29-2000).]

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Haze_Performance
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Report this Post07-29-2000 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Haze_PerformanceSend a Private Message to Haze_PerformanceDirect Link to This Post
Fiero Facts:

* Most foreign auto magazines raved about the Fiero's superior handling, its nimble response and excellent road feel.

* The Fiero had nearly three times as many sales as the MR2 during any given year in its lifetime.

* Pontiac spent over $300 million to produce the Fiero, yet cancelled the car on a "hunch" they would lose a maximum of $20 million between 1988 and 1995.

* The decision to kill the Fiero was made on Februrary 29, 1988.

* Several factory prototypes were made of a Fiero convertible.

* Car & Driver called the Fiero "One of the best cars in America." And gave the Fiero a slot in their top 10 best categories.

* The Los Angeles Auto Expo gave the Fiero their Design of the Year Award.

* The Fiero accounted for nearly 1/4 of all Pontiac sales in 1984.

* Spectators at the unveiling of the fastback Fiero, mistook the GT version as the new Corvette.

* GM was struggling with the problem of employees purchasing Fieros before the public had an opportunity. Never before has this been a problem with a GM car.

*Even though the highest sticker price for an '84 Fiero was about $10,000, one Michigan buyer paid over $15,000 for an '84 SE.

* The Fiero was the first American car to win IMSA GTU.

* In 1985, the Fiero won at Sears Point (one of 3 straight victories), beating such successful competitors as Chevrolet's Corvette and Ford's Mustang.

* A 4-cylinder Fiero belting out only 370 bhp tool the NHRA's Competition Eliminator title at the Keystone nationals on September 15, 1985, with a best 1/4 mile time of 9.72 seconds at 134.41 mph.

* The Fiero won well over 40 races in the 36 months it raced.

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My Website's WS6 Fiero & H.M.P.

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WKDFIRO
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Report this Post07-29-2000 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WKDFIROClick Here to Email WKDFIROSend a Private Message to WKDFIRODirect Link to This Post
I bow to your Fiero Trivia facts!

Most impressive Haze, most impressive!

Any more questions?

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Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post07-29-2000 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockDirect Link to This Post
I too read somewhere that the Corvette had a lot to do with the Fiero's demise. I don't think that was the reason they were underpowered however. The Fiero started as a "sporty commuter" and not a sportscar. They wanted reliability instead of speed. Too bad they failed miserably on that point with the first model...

If I remember correctly, there were some heavy budget-cuts and they had to make a decision fast where to save money. And that's when the Fiero was scrapped.

Then again - I could be completely wrong.

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Dan86gt3.8
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Report this Post07-29-2000 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan86gt3.8Click Here to Email Dan86gt3.8Send a Private Message to Dan86gt3.8Direct Link to This Post
close bb, its hints, alegations, and things left unsaid......
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batboy
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Report this Post07-29-2000 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batboyClick Here to Email batboySend a Private Message to batboyDirect Link to This Post
I bow to Dan's music trivia knowledge.
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hugh
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Report this Post07-29-2000 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hughClick Here to Email hughSend a Private Message to hughDirect Link to This Post
All business's have to look at the bottom line.Automakers always set up their factories to assemble more than one model of their vehicles.The uniqueness of the Fiero contributed to it's demise.It was the only car that could be built at it's plants,and it simply wasn't cost effective.
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Philphine
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Report this Post07-29-2000 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilphineClick Here to Email PhilphineSend a Private Message to PhilphineDirect Link to This Post
yeah, thats where i got my title, but i thought rumours sounded better than hints.

i wasn't really thinking about the demise part, although i've always though they would have been more popular if they would have been available with more hp.

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Cooter
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Report this Post07-29-2000 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post
From what the parts guy at Pontiac says, both Hugh and Batboy are right. As the Fiero progressed from a econo/commuter to a sports car, it got the attention of the big chiefs at GM. As development on the Quad Four continued in the mid/late 80's, it was destined to replace the Duke as the standard power plant, with the 3.1 HO as the optional engine. When sales began to slip, GM basically told the Fiero teams that either something else would have to be built in the plant with the Fiero, or Fiero production would have to be moved to share facilities with another product. Because of the unique construction of the Fiero, neither choice was applicable, so production was ended to save Pontiac from a possible loss of income. BTW- the Fiero was one of the only Pontiac cars that made money every year of production, even with the low sales of the 88's.
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2birds
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Report this Post07-30-2000 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2birdsClick Here to Email 2birdsSend a Private Message to 2birdsDirect Link to This Post
I smell a script for an Oliver Stone conspiracy movie here...

$13,500 for an 88 GT, $2k less for a Formula, or twice that for an 88 Vette. Same reason Ford killed the 97 SVT/Cobra T-bird (rumored to be under $30k) for the sake of the $40k plus Lincoln Mark 8 (already having sales problems). Same 32 valve engine, 10 grand less. Inter-family competition.

Didn't GM use the Fiero endoskeleton concept and body tooling machines for the Lumina APV and Pontiac Transports, and for the Saturns, too?

[This message has been edited by 2birds (edited 07-30-2000).]

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fierodave
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Report this Post07-30-2000 04:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodaveClick Here to visit fierodave's HomePageClick Here to Email fierodaveDirect Link to This Post
sticker price on most Indy's in 84 was over $14,000.00
FD
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Philphine
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Report this Post07-30-2000 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilphineClick Here to Email PhilphineDirect Link to This Post
checked the vette forum. a couple of people liked the fiero and did wish it had been developed more, but mostly it was dumb jokes. "if the fiero had a bigger engine it would just make a bigger fire".

aw well...thats's vette folks.

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Fret Naught
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Report this Post07-30-2000 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fret NaughtClick Here to Email Fret NaughtDirect Link to This Post
OK, here is my two cents, My Brother in law is an engineer for GM. He was involved in the Fiero Project, when I mentioned getting a Fiero, he said "get a V6, when I was on the project, we had a V6 on the test track, and It out performed the Vette, Fiero was supposed to be a poor mans sports car, It was decided that GM could not have their cheaper sports car out performing their top of the line sports car, so the V6 Fiero was purposely DE-TUNED." I asked him how it was DE-TUNED, and he said "electronically and some suspension parts, he was not specific. I have never know him to be dishonest, and have no reason to doubt him in this matter. Just my two cents worth.
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gyro1s
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Report this Post07-31-2000 02:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gyro1sClick Here to Email gyro1sDirect Link to This Post
I've just bought my first fiero's,(a 2 for 1 deal). While researching fiero's I asked a gm service advisor why they stopped. He said it was because they were competing with the corvette to well.
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mrfixit58
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Report this Post07-31-2000 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfixit58Click Here to Email mrfixit58Direct Link to This Post
A lot of good points have been raised. I agree that the Corvette division was placing pressure on the "power that be" to limit the performance of the little two seater. I was shopping for (read.. dreaming) a Fiero back in 85-86. The rumors then was that Pontiac was developing a factory turbo version and that that car would have near the performance of the Corvette for 1/2 the price. As the flagship for GM performance, the Corvette division was raising quite a stink.

If you recall, even the Corvette division was having to justify themselves to the stock holders. Profit margins for Corvettes were (and probably still are) below the line. Rumors abounded that the big two seater may be on the way out. I think that the turmoil inside GM, combined with the estimate that both Corvette and the Fiero would bring in profits below the acceptible margin is what killed the Fiero.

An interesting note is that the tooling and technology used to manufacture the Fiero went directly to the Saturn plant. Spaceframe technlogy (read safety) and composit body panels (no door dings) are the biggest selling point the Saturn has. Economics... GM figured by closing the Fiero plant and opening the Saturn plant, they could kill two birds with one stone. make the Corvette people happy and develope a more profitable new car line.

End of message,
Roy

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Report this Post07-31-2000 11:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DJRiceClick Here to Email DJRiceSend a Private Message to DJRiceDirect Link to This Post
I heard that the staff at the Corvette Plant met the staff at the Fiero Plant for a inter-company softball game. Some VPs got drunk and decided to make some ludicrous bets on the game. To make a long story short, the Corvette Guys won the game, and the Fiero got cancelled.....


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Dillon - Titusville, FL
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Pontiaddict
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Report this Post07-31-2000 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiaddictSend a Private Message to PontiaddictDirect Link to This Post
The reason the Fiero started out as a Sporty Commuter is that Pontiac was trying to pull a fast one on GM, like they did with the GTO. A Le Mans was a family car. Drop a big engine in it and BAM!, you have yourself a musclecar. (Of course they were slower than 421 Catalinas, and the Tempest had to lose it's rear transaxle and near 50/50 weight distribution to do it.) So you take a claimed "commuter car" and put a bigger engine in it. -- Oops, GM caught on, sorry, not this time. Instead of a near 300hp aluminum v6, (depending on who you ask) you get a 140hp cast iron "commuter car" engine.


I'm not flaming anyone. I just want to share my conspiracy theory.

BTW -- It was you who went (goes) back in time and killed (kills) Kennedy.

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