I think I am going to start a flame war.
As you know, I love my 3.4l 87Gt soon to be twin turbo . BUT, after comparing specs, I find the 91 and newer MR2 turbos are lighter,better built, have a higher top speed and acceleration, more trunk space (OK.. they do sound like Hondas) almost as rare, are almost as cool looking, have better gas mileage, and recently, have Kit Car potential with V6 swaps and upgrade turbos available. 0-60 5.6 sec STOCK. :-(

Break something on the MR2 then compare prices of parts, and availability!
Fieros are cheaper to repair and modify if I had a billion bucks I wouldn't mess with either I'd get a McLaren!

I think it is better to compare 1st generation MR2 and 1st generation Fiero to be fair.

I agree with Spyder. You have to take technology into consideration as well. Besides, there's always something faster out there. I'm sure there's many other cars bigger and better than the MR2 as well.

uum looking here in the shop estimating program "Mitchel on Demand" the R&R time on the turbo is 16 hours...the removal and replacement... NO additional work being performed!!! NOTHING on the fiero has this high of a time... the motor in my car can be out in in less than an hour the clutch pulled and back in. in under 5 hours.. again book time MR2 92 Turbo 14.5hrs... uum i see a pattern here. the MR2 is a great car.. very nice to drive and EASY to make STUPID fast! But ranks up there in fix-it prices with the cars you'd copy with a kit... if you'r thinking of getting one JUMP all over it.. they're sweet cars and worth the 10k you'd pay for a decent Turbo car but make sure you've got the history of the car and make the first upgrade you do be either an HKS or Greddy turbo Timer.. save that turbo.. their expensive to replace... HEH.. cost just as musch to take it out as the turbo does to get a new one.. isn't that strange...

I have a confession to make. There's a girl I work with who bought a Lincoln Navigator (BIG mistake!) and is selling her beautiful 1991 MR2 - black, T-roof, leather, 5-speed - for $5500 - well under KBB value.

Being more of a sports-car guy than a drag-race guy, I thought I should probably test drive it. So I picked up the phone to call her, but I just couldn't do it! I wrote her an email, then deleted it - I couldn't bring myself to send it! I felt like a traitor for even considering an MR2 - a car that never would have existed if not for the Fiero.

I guess I'm a Fiero man until I die (or at least until I can afford a C5 Corvette or Porsche Boxster).

I feel much better now. My name is Chad, and I'm a Fieroholic.

If GM wouldn't have scrapped the 89+ Fiero I think the MR2 would have seen some real competition. Toward the end Pontiac was finally starting to see the Fiero as a sports car instead of the commuter image it started out as as. If they had gone with the Aluminum alcan chassis and the 3.4 DOHC or Quad 4, I think it would have really been a threat to the Mr2. I'm a firm believer that the americans can do anything better than the japanese if they put their mind to it, but the attitute for a lot of their products seem to be "if it aint broke, why fix it" (pushrod engines & corvette rear leaf springs) while the asian market is always inventing some flashing new gadget. Still, some day I would like to own both a late model Mr2 and Fiero. Both have their merits.

Another thing to consider is that...if you put the 2nd Generation MR2 and the Fiero GT side by side and looking at it in the front view angle...You will notice that the Fiero GT is wider than the MR2...Plus look at all the aftermarket products that it has to offer on our cars...From different engines to bodykits....

Pegasus... In 85, I almost bought a new MR2. It was an excellent car. Ended up buying my GT, instead, though. (Due to the plastic body and the V-6). But I understand how you feel. I say go for it, if it stirs your soul. Just make sure it hasn't been "beat to death". And be willing to pay those repair prices.

My feeling is that I love my Fiero. I also loved my 66 big block corvette; and my two 41 Chevies, my 51 Chevy, my Triumph Spitfire, my Fiat X/19, etc.

My point is you can love more than one type car and not have to feel like a traitor. It's a car, not a wife.

I have owned a nonturbo 91 MR2 and loved it (TRAITOR, I know). I wouldn't even consider the 1st Gen because they are BUTT ugly and don't really have huge performance potential.
I also have noticed that the Fiero has a wider wheelbase which also was part of the reason I bought the Fastback Fiero (parked next each other, they are slightly wider than Notchbacks). Obviously,if Pontiac made a second Gen MR2, I would have this discussoin.I traded my MR2 for the Fiero for these reasons. More upgrade potential, more rare, better looking, and sounds better. Recently, I have seen 500hp turbo upgrades, V6 engine swaps, and Kit Car bodies, along with aftermarket stuff to rival most Fiero options. The MR2 will always sound like a tin can, but even the naturally aspirated 2nd Gen MR2 was faster than my stock 87GT. It also was built tighter :-(. My dilemma is: I have to sell my Fiero to get the MR2 and I really don't want to. I also still owe money on it.
I am wondering what I can get for it or if someone can just take over payments. I have a new tranny,clutch, manifolds, radiator, brakes,rare STOCK "Leather" (its almost suede) with 87,000 on the Body and 45,000 on my Camaro 3.4. I am asking $5000 for stock engine, or $7000 with 3.4. Do you think I can get it? The twin turbo add on is going to run me at least $3000 more and then I will have problems with the trannt holding up. I know for a FACT, that a turbo MR2 pulls 200hp stock and I could upgrade to 300hp for WAY less than that without even destroying the tranny.

I partially agree, Carrolles. I too love a lot of different cars, including old Mopars, early F-bodies, the 1964.5-1966 Mustang, Miatas, air-cooled VWs, and almost any small British or Italian car with a folding top.

But after I took a good long look at that MR2, I could have sworn my 88 Coupe cocked a headlight cover at me as if to say, "You've been flirting with that little Japanese b*tch again, haven't you? HAVEN'T YOU!?!"

Well, I'd have to say that the MR2 is a superior vehicle in just about every way. The first gen is a copy of our notchbacks. Then when the GTs came out, Toyota followed with gen II MR2s. 1980's GMs are not known for refinement. The Japs almost always do it better. They are several years newer than our's. But its still a copy of our's.

However, 2nd gen MR2s are still priced sky high compared to our GTs. You can't compare the turbos, way more HP and a higher SCCA class. But I'm always ending up near the coast. My car won't rust. My car is way cheaper to buy and maintian. I don't see any body kits for MR2s.

Yes, a late MR2 turbo is a sweet car. But you are comparing the 1980s to the 1990s. The first MR2s are comparable, the gen IIs are not.

there is no comparison between the two. Even having one of the best handling fieros(88gt/88form) will still be left in the dust. then there is the power to weight ratio, better then the all mighty corvette, launching the car to mid 14's in the 1/4 stock. I love the car and probably would of bought one if i could of found a nice one around here. My best friend has one so i can honestly say that i've driven both, raced both, and repaired both and even though the parts might seem alittle more salty there way worth it. Quoting Fierocious "Fieros are cheaper to repair and modify" the modify part of this sentance is false, to modify the mr2 is so easy and cheaper then what you think, everything you do almost adds 10-15 hp! what all can you do to the fiero and what all can you do the MR-2, the engine of the MR-2 will and has withstanded 500hp in the stock form making it the best jap engine ever built(all my info is from "Turbo" mag) anyways to make this long story short if there ever was a choice to be made on the performance factor the MR-2 beats the crap out of our cars. I am not in anyway dissing our cars but we do have to give toyota the upperhand in this battle. L8r, shawn.

Unfortunately, that is also the conclusion I arrived at, and if I got an honest opinion from a "tainted" group like this (myself included), I am going to do the unthinkable. I am selling my 87GT in favor of an MR2 Turbo. BUT; when I can afford it, I will buy another Fiero also....I hate to go Jap, being a RiceBoy hater, but the MR2 has everything I was looking for in the Fiero and then some. If only Pontiac hadn't discontinued the Fiero...... :[

quote Originally posted by Pretender: ..everything you do almost adds 10-15 hp!

you mean like hubcaps.. wings.. cut springs.. big exhaust..?

hmm. j/k.. maybe I'm taking these jokes too far.. heh.. your comment did sound funny tho.

I actually think the 2nd gen MR2s are quite nice..

The Fiero has something important that a MR2 dose not have, an intoxicating exhaust note and lots of right now good old American low end torque (in my opinion is a must have). The Fiero is also a very safe car.

A 3.4 turbo or a supercharged 3.8 and some really good fat tires will make a Fiero more competitive with the turbo MR2.

True, but if I was to spend $3000 +, then I could upgrade MR2 to 400hp

True, but the Toyota MR2 with 400 HP would still not have an intoxicating exhaust note and lots of right now good old American low end torque which is more satisfying in everyday driving. Lots of torque is what win’s most street-races in my opinion. If Pontiac had continued the Fiero through 89 with more technological developments like the rumored aluminum frame, than that good old American torque would really wrinkle some asphalt. Maybe Pontiac would have come up with another winning body design that Toyota would have probably copped also. It’s all relative and opinionated as far as I am concerned. They are both great cars and they both have there strengths and weaknesses.

ChadMan, I can't believe you said Boxster and Vette in the same breath!

As a President of a Fiero Club I feel like I should always be very positive of the car that I feel I represent. At the same time it is hard to ignore the reality of the comparison. The reality is that Toyota came out with sports car named the MR-2. It was a sports car pure and simple. It didn't try to be anything else. GM tried to sell the Fiero as a commuter car when everybody kinda winked at eachother and nodded. Up until they realized that GM was actually making the Fiero as a commuter car not as a subtle competitor to the Vette it should have been. The Toy's suspension had been far superior to the Chevette suspension that most of us had to work with. The one thing that the Fiero kept doing well was brute force. The 2.8 V6 had the torque that even the supercharged Toyota couldn't ignore.
Body kits for the MR-2s? Ive seen them. They definitely make it look more agressive but it is an aquired taste as with most import kits.
Most if not all imports have an extensive aftermarket for the engine as well as everything else. With us domestics, up until recently, if it wasn't V8 it wasn't worth an upgrade. Sure you can get up to 400 hp. I read the article about the upgrade. Pushing such a small engine up that high is risky. Even in the article they paid for crossing the performance line. No thank you. I could easily trick out a Small Block, track down Gary Zumalt and have an MR-2 Eater with the engine not even trying hard. I would think that the number of Fieros converted to V8 alone would outnumber the MR-2s that go to V6. (not even taking into account the 3.4 upgrades.)
Technically the MR2 is a great car. I don't fit in the 2nd Gen MR2. My head was planted on the ceiling. Yes I would love to drive one and find out what its like without shame. But I didn't like the styling on the inside. I can't take a hyped out sewing machine seriously no matter how fast it is. Also, I am a loyal fanatic of Our Lady of Blessed Lowend Torque so these rev happy imports are not doing too much to impress me. I would jump at the chance to drive an MR-2 for a week though. It would be a great fact finding trip. But I will always remember the line from "The Hunt for Red October."

"Its wise to learn the ways of ones adversaries."

Amen.

WRD:
On behalf of OUR beloved cars (I changed my mind again), the Toyota may have better build, stronger tranny, etc. but not only does it lack torque and sound, I just called my insurance.... They want $512 a freakin MONTH to drive one.....I say KISS OFF!!!! I am NOT paying that much a month for anything less than a Viper and certainly not some Ferrari wannabe with a CAMRY engine!!!!!. I am still curious about strengthening my tranny though. If I am dropping a DOHC in my Fiero, and I pay a shop to do it, realistically...am I going to have to buy a kit? Or can I just pay them to install it and they will figure it out? Can it be turboed you think? GO MR2 eater

Well OK the new MR2 will house our normal Fieros, but instead of dumping all that money into an MR2, I would feel better putting in a cadillac northstar engine in my fiero. Oh wait a sec that can also get a twin turbo put on it as well. Hmmmm a V8 with a twin turbo??? I think that should give a new MR2 a run for its money.
I dont know the sticker price for a new MR2, but lets say to overestimate a bit... $5000 for a Fiero with a bad engine but really good body, and from designone systems a northstar is $6000 plus the twin turbo (cant get the price right now but i wouldnt think the fiero needs it). So for $11000 plus tax title and registration, and other little mods you have a Fiero that will keep up with a new MR2. Lets even go so far to say $9000 for all the other goodies in your Fiero... that would be $20000! Granted this does not include labor, but for many of us that isnt a big deal... is that cheaper than a MR2?

And to top it off you get a V8 which would make the choice obvious to me!

Well, to be honest, you can get a 91 turbo Mr2 for around $8-$9000 with 0-60 in 5.6 seconds performance. In my case, I spent $6000 for a low mileage 87GT and have to pay a mechanic to do engine mods. A DOHC engine will put me slightly faster than Mr. 2. However, assuming I only spend $1200 for a low mileage 3.4 DOHC, and $1500 to install it (totally unrealistic as I am paying that for a simple Camaro 3.4 install), that puts me at $9000. All is well and good. Right? Wrong.That doesn't take into account manufacturing flywheel, customizing exhaust etc. Now what about upgrading? See whats out there to build 3.4 DOHC. Not much. How much can the Getrag take before you have to rebuild it? You certainly aren't going to pull another 100+ horses out of it. With Mr2, with a better power to weight ratio mind you, upgrade turbo and wastegate, and you already are past C5 Vette range. My point being, if I could do a Northstar swap for $4000 all told, I would do it in a heartbeat. No stinkin Jap car would have a prayer. Problem is, I would realistically have to spend over $6500 just to get it done halfway right and even then, I couldn't drive it hard. Anythime you do extensive modifying, you lose the reliabity factor you get from an upgraded Toyota.
Oh... And just for the record, yes MR2 body kits look like Hondas. You notice the Fiero GT really has no body kit addons for the stock body to speak of at all. I was speaking in reference to Kit Car Lambo & Ferrari bodies I've seen.
In case you are wondering at this point, I am by no means a Rice Boy. I just think things should be put in their proper perspective. $ for $, the Fiero is better in my opinion, but money aside, I would take the late model MR2 anyday. In fact I would import the 265hp European version. GOT RICE?
I say screw Jap cars, but this is 1 exception.

I've seen people in honda del-sols (mid engine) bend over backwards to look at my fiero.

I fell in love with the newer mr2s before the fiero because the abundance of websites about it. and..... I always thought fast fieros were way out of my price range, but I was proved wrong. AND IM GLAD LOL

Del-Sols are front engine. They only look like mid engine. About the fast Fiero in your budget? What mods are you thinking? Because I have a $3000 budget and I don't think I will get more than 200hp with it but I would love to be proved wrong.

A fiero with the Cadillac Northstar engine and the automatic transmission that comes with it would be one reliable piece of machinery, even more so than a stock fiero I think. I read about a Northstar fiero in Hot Rod magazine that could do a 1/4-mile in 11.2 seconds with no nitrous. I read somewhere else that you would have a 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds. That is reliable speed.

Everyone is talking about all these engine mods and V8s and such. I bought my Fiero on the great looks it has. I think the acceleration of my fiero is adequate and dont really care if its not the fastest which of course it isnt. All these turbos and V8s do is get you a $200 or more speeding ticket. I like the MR2 and wouldnt mind owning one some day. Ill park it next to my Fiero GT. 8-)

Greg... Couldn't agree more about the bargain that making a bruiser GT is, but I think you need to add a little to the math. First, the Design 1 nstar price you quoted is just for the kit! Add 3g for a donor engine. Keep your front wheels pointed right when serving those 300 ponies- Ryane suspension- 2.5 g. Stopping that nasty mofo- Brembo big brake kit $2700. Now your factory wheels won't fit - $2700 worth of tire and wheel.
Now you have a 30,000 dollar car, time for the 6 thousand dollar paint job. Then some moron in an SUV runs over it in a parking lot- $500,000 to hire criminal defense team for capitol murder trial...
It can get pretty expensive to fix up an old used car.

just thought I'd dig this old thread about mr2's.. look at the bottom.. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/000568.html

"I don't think I'm gonna get a stick Fiero 'till I have more mechanical experiance..." hehe... oops.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 5sp Getrag. V8 Archie uses them all the time for V8 conversions and supposedly they have no problem holding up.. What you will need is a heavier duty clutch disc. As for the northstar, there are kits that will let you keep the 5sp. Now that would be fun. 300hp + with a stick

I've pondered many Japanese cars,until I finally sat in them and had nightmares afterwards,too small,awkward styling.This changed when my buddy got a Mitsubishi Galant VR4 with 280HP,very comfortable leather interior.

Greg
Hate to burst your bubble but I'm quite sure that the $4500-6000 price from Design One is just for the NorthStar conversion kit -you have to supply the engine and trans. A Series II S/C 3800 with modified blower will give you about the same hp and tor # for a bunch less $. Had a chance to compare dyno results with a NorthStar. He had me by 20HP but I had him by 15 ft-lb

How about these numbers...

1988 base coupe with blown engine..... $500

300hp Northstar installed with 100hp
shot of nitrous ..$11000

coil over suspension, rear stabilizer,
and poly bushings......................$2000

various repairs........................$1000

some killer 17" rims and tires.........$1500

strip off all extra weight............. n/c

total..................................$16000

The look on the faces of C5 and
Viper owners as you blow their
doors off.........................PRICELESS!!

But.... If you play that game with an MR2...
Lets see.... $9000 for a $50,000 mile MR2 turbo w/ T-Tops:
That leaves $7000 to upgrade turbo, wastegate, intercooler, wheels, and speakers BTW.. ask an engine builder if the Northstar will take 100hp Nitrous..sorry, no can do.
However, check my setup:
Near perfect condition GT $6000
40K 3.4 including shipping $800
Install $1000 (shop)
Twin T3 turbos $400 each
Custom install $2000
$12,000 300hp + monster with good gas mileage that looks stock and is professionally installed.

I stand corrected! but there are alot of goodies apparent not necessarily the one I stated that will bring our 15 yr old cars up to date. Just please please dont give up on or plastic cars for a new toyota. "Dont give into the Dark Side!"

I've driven a couple of MR2's. Just like the exotic cars (Diablo, Lamb's, etc.), they do what they do extremely well.

What I can't explain is why they leave me cold. For me, the exotics are totally un-inspiring. I guess it's because I can't imagine myself wrenching on one. If I could afford it, I could afford the matching mechanic.

The MR.2 TC and SC are strong and nicely constructed but I'm just left flat without any desire to make them work better. I prefer the Fiero styling hands down.

Maybe it's because the Fiero is the American underdog.

Does anyone else get my point?

Terry

Totally. But I bought my Fiero for speed POTENTIAL and styling. As far as SC and TC versions of MR2, you couldn't pay me to trade my Fiero for them. Its only the new Turbos that got me going/