last September I purchased a red MSD "Street Performance" ignition coil from Summit racing, and installed it on my 87GT in October. To make a long story short, I was stranded last weekend with what seemed to be a bad ICM, because there was no spark, and after letting the car sit for half an hour the engine fired right up again. Carefully driving home 10 miles at 50 mph max revealed no problem. 2 days later, the same thing happened after driving about 2 miles. Changing the ICM didn't cure the problem, but putting the old ignition coil back in did. Measuring the secondary side revealed the coil has an internal open. Great.
Researching the subject of MSD coils I found there were a few posts on here agreeing that it's not a good idea to put an MSD coil on a Fiero, and today I can second that. Although I don't quite understand why the secondary side would quit. Temperature in the Fiero? I hardly think that would cause the coil wiring to separate, especially since the coil was on the car only in fall/winter/spring with little chance to overheat. Maybe MSD ist just crap?
What do you think? For me it's a lesson learned: stay with GM/ACDelco at least for ignition parts, all aftermarket parts seem to die after 6 months...
Yeah, but what puzzles me is why it failed.If you read their website, MSD stands behind its products, blabla quality blabla warranty, but bottomline is: is this all marketing BS and they're really manufacturing inferior products and paint them bright red for the tuning crowd, or is it a Fiero thing killing those buggers. And if so, why...?
I have the MSD "Street Fire" coil , OEM replacement, in our GT 2.8L with AC brand ICM and pickup coil, stock distributor. The combination has been in for the last 3 years, about 5,000 +miles, without a problem.
Our '86SE 2.8L came with a new Cardone distributor set when we purchased. When looking over the car after the purchase I noticed the AC stock coil was very loose in the coil frame so I replaced it with a MSD "Street Fire" coil. All was well for the first 1,200 miles when theCardone ICM failed. It might have been that the ICM installed with the new distributor was of questionable quality as a new module got us back on the road. To say the least, I replaced the ICM and pickup coil in the Cardone distributor with new AC parts. All is well now and the car runs great.
Seems to me that most problems are not the stock coils, or stock coil replacements, but aftermarket ICMs, pickup coils, and alternative ignition systems. You really never read much from the guys that have the stock systems intact other than an occassional problem with a 25 year old part failing, primarilly ICMs and pickup coils. That being said, those guys often replace with AC parts and go down the road happy.
When I purchased the first MSD "Street Fire" coil it was after looking over many of the aftermarket offerings from OReillys, Auto Zone and Advanced Auto. All seemed very cheaply constructed and made it easy to go with the MSD. My second choice was the AC brand. No need here other than a nice running 2.8L.
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11:40 AM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15863 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
I've had an MSD Blaster coil in my 88 GT since 2004...
The only ignition related failure I've had was an ICM in 2005...
I've also used that blaster coil with success. On one 3.4L Fiero that I've owned since 99 and its still working. If you have bad plug wires it will put a strain on the coil. Maybe that's the problem that brings failures. As for the MSD GM coil pack coils, there are many reports of those things going bad on a regular basis. To avoid that I used only stock GM coils on my 3800SC.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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11:41 AM
fieroluke Member
Posts: 357 From: Erlangen, Germany Registered: Mar 2001
That's probably not it. ICM and Pickup coil are AcDelco. So are the plug wires and plugs. Plugs are 1 year old, so are plug wires, with less than 10K miles on them. ICM /PU are older, maybe 5 years, but they're fine.
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02:13 PM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5922 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
I just dyno tuned an 02 Trans Am LS1 that had MSD coils. One of them was bad and it didn't look that old.
The truth is MSD stuff is designed for racing applications and, while they may work fine there, they seem to not be durable enough for regular long-term street duty use. I've seen more MSD products fail on street cars than I care to count. And the bad thing is 99.9% of the time, there's no good reason for people to put these products on their cars.
Unless you are doing some extreme turbocharged, nitrous, or supercharged build, you don't need MSD ignition products. Even then, some of the modern factory ignition components are so good they might work just fine on such builds.
Some people even have problems with their performance spark plugs wires - go figure.
------------------ OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
The likely problem with MSD is quality control as I posted about my purchase of 3 MSD coils for DIS ignition and not one of the coils was identical to the other but all were made in China. There are several possibilities that influence the life of the ignition parts and things like plug gaps, wires and in this case pick up coils can cause loads on modules and coils that shorten their life expectancy.
One thing is for sure, you can't go wrong with original equipment ignition parts and for those using aftermarket performance coils with stock ignition systems, it's a waste. You will only get 30k volts from a 45k potential coil if that's all it takes to jump the spark gap. That's how inductive ignition systems work, capacitive discharge ignition systems are different and tend to deliver the voltage they are rated capable of.
The high output aftermarket coils are intended for the rest of the high output system parts offered by the manufacturer which usually produce more output by various design features associated with them. Of course MSD and Accel are not going to say much about that since a sell is a sell. You can expect about as much performance improvement as you can from a tank full of 93 octane in a stock 2.8L Fiero.
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04:19 PM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15242 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
I had an MSD "performance" distributor module in my Indy's SD4 HEI distributor (coil in cap type) that died in the middle of traffic after just over a year. I've been running a Parts Store generic module for the last 4 years with no problems.
My GT had burned through an Accel coil (no longer make them) after 7 years, but the MSD coil I replaced it with only lasted 2. Luckily I had an old stock coil in my parts bag (with spare distributor module and spare cap/rotor) in my trunk to get me home. There too, I am now running a Parts Store generic replacement - been over a year now.
It sucks when these expensive "performance parts" don't last.
Back when my V6 had a distributer, I installed an MSD coil. After 5 or 6 months, the engine would start to sputter and hesitate if I drove it for more than a couple miles. I chalked it up to a defective coil, and re-installed the stock coil.
After installing a set of exhaust headers, I decided to relocate the coil to the trunk wall. The MSD coil was still siting in my parts bin, so I re-installed it to satisfy my curiosity. Interestingly enough, the MSD coil worked perfectly in its new location.
This would seem to suggest that the MSD coil doesn't handle heat-soak very well.
I had one last seven years, before it died suddenly without warning on a hot day. I thought that was pretty good. Replaced it with another, so far so good.
Bad Tach Filter can kill ignition parts and hurt performance... Many Fiero w/ OE filter are shot after 25+ years.
Bad coil ground won't help either. HEI coil's Iron Frame needs a good ground.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
The main reason I bought the MSD was b/c it was red, and my stock coil was 5+ years old. So much for preventative maintenance. But my DIS components are already on my workbench, the old components just have to last until the pickup bracket is ready...
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04:29 AM
CodeSlinger Member
Posts: 68 From: Aurora, CO USA Registered: Mar 2013
I bought my '87 GT a couple months ago with a failed distributor and had to replace it. I've been going through the different ignition components and replacing them (NGK plugs, wires, new dist) since all of them were, from what I could tell, stock. The car seemed to run ok, but was pretty darn weak and I chalked it up to 102k on a tired engine. Last night I installed a new MSD coil that I bought from O'Rileys and now the car actually pulls pretty good. I was considering an engine swap yesterday, until I installed this coil. I'm assuming that the stock coil was just starting to fail and any new coil would have sufficed. Do these coils slowly fail over time?
------------------ '87 GT 5-speed
[This message has been edited by CodeSlinger (edited 05-09-2013).]
Originally posted by CodeSlinger: I'm assuming that the stock coil was just starting to fail and any new coil would have sufficed. Do these coils slowly fail over time?
That or just quit altogether. I'm assuming you've replaced the plugs and wires also. 100k is nothing on a well maintained engine, including the 2.8L.
