I have a line on an ultra low mileage 2011 4.8 Chevy V8 for really cheap - so cheap, I'm going to buy it just because it's so cheap. If I don't use it in the Fiero, I'll find another project for it. Comes with the complete uncut harness and computer and all the hoses, lines, belts and accessories. Searched LR4, 4.8 Chevy, 4.8 Chevy V8 - and found nothing on PFF. I have a 2011 Chevy 1/2 ton 2wd short box truck and love it - has plenty of power and pulls my 20 foot camp trailer pretty easy. I've towed a lot of things with it and it handles it fine. Just wondering what folks opinions are on using this in a Fiero. I'd probably go with a 6 spd but would also like to look at an auto. Just wondering if this swap would be simialr to the LS4 swaps going on - other than needing an adapter plate. Please chime in!

Pat

From wikipedia:

The Vortec 4800 is a Generation III small block V8 truck engine. Displacement is 4.8 L (290 cu in) with a 96.01 mm (3.78 inch) bore and 83 mm (3.27 inch) stroke. It is the smallest of the Generation III Vortec truck engines and was the replacement for the 5.0 L 5000 L30. The Vortec 4800 L20 makes more power and features variable valve timing. The system adjusts both intake and exhaust timing, but does not come with Active Fuel Management. The L20 has a cast iron block and power output is 260–302 hp (194–225 kW) while torque is 295–305 lb·ft (400–414 N·m). The Vortec 4800 base engines were dropped from the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon in favor of the 5300 with Active Fuel Management.

If you are happy with those numbers I think it would make a solid performer with great reliability. However, if you want more performance from it (without boost or N₂O)you might have issues. The unique bore size limits you to custom pistons and only one aftermarket head choice. I would agree this is similar to a LS4 or N* swap.

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 02-27-2013).]

My next swap will be a 4.8/6 speed for a low buck commuter build.

Pat the 4.8 has a shorter stroke than the 5.3. with the right cam and some 180 degree headers you would have a higher revving pretty exotic sounding LS motor. You know me, i would go with the six speed manual, although a six speed auto Malibu or Impala trans might be fun too with the shift programming firmed up a bit.

I drove a Silverado crew cab with a 4.8. It was a stone compared to the 5.3. But then, a Fiero is not a Crew Cab.
The 4.8 ought to make an interesting swap.
I've seen articles in Car Craft where impressive numbers (upper 300s?) were available from a 4.8 with just a cam and intake change.
I didn't realize that it had a shorter stroke than the 5.3. Could be a fun project.

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Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

Hot Rod magazine did a series of articles not too long ago about cheap Chinese turbos and how far you could push them. They wanted to see how far a stock truck LS motor could be pushed before something bad happened. They did several dyno pulls and kept upping the boost pressure. I believe they finally stopped at over 1000HP because they couldn't get any more pressure or the plumbing couldn't hold any more pressure or something like that, not because any part of the motor broke. They then took the oil pan off to look at the bearings and journals to see what, if any damage there was. They were shocked to find that the motor was a 4.8! They had thought they were dealing with a 5.3 because those are the most common. So I think your idea would be fine. I personally wouldn't have any regrets about not using a 5.3 or larger in a Fiero. You are going to get a massive increase in power even with the little 'ol 4.8.
Just my $0.02.

Thanks for the replies. Going to see if I can grab this motor tonight.

quote Originally posted by FieroDan86: Hot Rod magazine did a series of articles not too long ago about cheap Chinese turbos and how far you could push them. They wanted to see how far a stock truck LS motor could be pushed before something bad happened. They did several dyno pulls and kept upping the boost pressure. I believe they finally stopped at over 1000HP because they couldn't get any more pressure or the plumbing couldn't hold any more pressure or something like that, not because any part of the motor broke. They then took the oil pan off to look at the bearings and journals to see what, if any damage there was. They were shocked to find that the motor was a 4.8! They had thought they were dealing with a 5.3 because those are the most common. So I think your idea would be fine. I personally wouldn't have any regrets about not using a 5.3 or larger in a Fiero. You are going to get a massive increase in power even with the little 'ol 4.8. Just my $0.02.

Several years ago a friend was looking into high hp Gen 3 builds and [supposedly] 1200 is the max safe output for the Al blocked engines and 1600 for the Fe. Either way, more than 99.99% of us will ever need.

Katatak,

Keep us informed. I think this could be real cool and am very curious to see how it performs (streetability, mpg and of course 0-60.)

Good luck.

The 4.8 isn't like swapping in the LS4. It's like swapping in the LS3 and other RWD platform LS engines. You'll either have to fab up your own parts to do the swap, or use Archie's LS kit. However, I don't think Archie has a swap kit for doing an LS motor with auto trans yet.

The LS4 is a slightly different beast in terms of swapping, because it has the metric bell pattern.

I have a 4.8 short block in my garage, and an LS4, that I'll be using the 4.8 rotating assembly in, to drop the LS4's displacement down to 4.8 liters instead of the 5.3. I wouldn't generally recommend doing this as a course of action to anyone else though. It's not a generally reasonable thing to do.

quote Originally posted by dobey: The 4.8 isn't like swapping in the LS4. It's like swapping in the LS3 and other RWD platform LS engines. You'll either have to fab up your own parts to do the swap, or use Archie's LS kit. However, I don't think Archie has a swap kit for doing an LS motor with auto trans yet. The LS4 is a slightly different beast in terms of swapping, because it has the metric bell pattern. I have a 4.8 short block in my garage, and an LS4, that I'll be using the 4.8 rotating assembly in, to drop the LS4's displacement down to 4.8 liters instead of the 5.3. I wouldn't generally recommend doing this as a course of action to anyone else though. It's not a generally reasonable thing to do.

I think the OP is aware. The 4.8 could yeild slightly better mpg.

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 02-28-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Pat the 4.8 has a shorter stroke than the 5.3. with the right cam and some 180 degree headers you would have a higher revving pretty exotic sounding LS motor. You know me, i would go with the six speed manual, although a six speed auto Malibu or Impala trans might be fun too with the shift programming firmed up a bit.

You don't really need 180 degree headers to get an exotic sound.



Some well designed headers to match the appropriate opposing primary lengths with the exhaust pulses for the cam, and a full length exhaust similar to the factory Fiero exhaust routing, with a good muffler, will get you a great sound.

quote Originally posted by dobey:

According to all the info I found the LY2 was used in '07 thru '09 and the L20 was used from '10 on.

Interesting thought:

Since this is from a RWD application, the dry sump system might work on it. Supposedly the shortened front end of a LS4 is incompatible with the dry sump but it could work with your 4.8.

The 8.8:1 compression certainly sounds boost friendly.

If you search for L20 GenIV story, you can find a GM article with loads of info.

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 02-28-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Xyster: According to all the info I found the LY2 was used in '07 thru '09 and the L20 was used from '10 on.

Oh, right you are. And the L20 has VVT, which might pose a problem. It certainly means the cam is different than the previous numbers I mentioned, but possibly not far off, depending on timing.

However, it's also very easy to install the LQ9, LS1, LS6, or other valvetrain that doesn't have VVT or AFM in the engine, to liven it up. A few of the LS hot cams would also be interesting choices.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, the Dino that Archie's shop is currently building, is getting a built 4.8: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/090962.html

Well as most things go that are "too good to be true", this one is as well - went and looked at it today and turns out to be a 2004 LR4 with 23k miles - nice and clean but when we started talking price, there was a lot of "well so and so offered X" and "cousin ed said he'd pay X". I walked away!..... The search continues! Thanks for all the input though.

Pat

Not sure if it's really an issue but i would be worried about the extra weight of the cast iron block compared to the aluminum ls4 which are relatively cheap. If your looking to make a fast car out of that engine, I've seen 4.8's and 5.3's put in fox body mustangs with a 150 shot of nitrous and a big cam

[This message has been edited by ckrummy (edited 03-01-2013).]

quote Originally posted by ckrummy: Not sure if it's really an issue but i would be worried about the extra weight of the cast iron block compared to the aluminum ls4 which are relatively cheap. If your looking to make a fast car out of that engine, I've seen 4.8's and 5.3's put in fox body mustangs with a 150 shot of nitrous and a big cam <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XUZRYLr983Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The added weight of the cast iron block is not a concern to me. The more I read - the more I lean toward an LS4 - but I still am not comitted to another V8 Fiero. Ultimately, my project will end up with what ever motor / trans combo that comes along that "inspires" me to buy it.

quote Originally posted by katatak: Well as most things go that are "too good to be true", this one is as well - went and looked at it today and turns out to be a 2004 LR4 with 23k miles - nice and clean but when we started talking price, there was a lot of "well so and so offered X" and "cousin ed said he'd pay X". I walked away!..... The search continues! Thanks for all the input though. Pat

4.8L LR4 Crate Engine (12491851). Brand new price from GM is $2799 and that is less the upper intake, TB, MAF and air tube. This low mileage engine is easily worth $800 but it would be a challenge to swap with an auto.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: 4.8L LR4 Crate Engine (12491851). Brand new price from GM is $2799 and that is less the upper intake, TB, MAF and air tube. This low mileage engine is easily worth $800 but it would be a challenge to swap with an auto.

It shouldn't be that difficult to duplicate what Don Kraus did with his build. I'm not sure what exactly would be different for Archie's kit to use it with an automatic, as I haven't really looked into it, since I don't really want to run an auto with anything, but it shouldn't be that hard to get an auto working behind a modern LS engine. It's been done before.

Not looking for an argument, but Don put $60,000 into his build, not counting his labor. I think that if would be hard to duplicate his build.

quote Originally posted by dratts: Not looking for an argument, but Don put $60,000 into his build, not counting his labor. I think that if would be hard to duplicate his build.

That's the entire car though, not the engine/trans, no? I'd expect the cost of his engine/trans alone to be somewhere around $10-15K. And I'm not talking about fully duplicating the build. He has had significant work done to both the engine and trans. I'm talking about simply duplicating the mounting and adapting of the 4t65e-HD to a RWD LSx engine, which is a significantly smaller portion of that $60K without labor.

quote Originally posted by dobey: I'm talking about simply duplicating the mounting and adapting of the 4t65e-HD to a RWD LSx engine

Since the SBC and LS(x) have the same bellhousing pattern (LS(x) is missing 1 bolt) and uses the same dowel pin locations as the SBC you might as well start with a SBC/Metric adapter plate. Take a Zumalt based SBC adapter plate, cut off the nissan starter mount and mill it for the starter snout clearance. This adapter plate is close to the same thickness as the one Fast Fieros made, but half the price and I would trust its precision more then Fast Fieros one (Don's was off over .030"). You could also take an Archie SBC/Manual plate and have it face milled to the right thickness too, clearnance it for the starter snout, and trim the lower section off the transmission housing side (same amount you must cut the starter pad), but that takes more machine time than doing the mods to the Zumalt adapter.

The one machined part that you will need is the pilot support bushing between the crankshaft and the torque converter to ensure proper alignment/support of these two parts.

You will have to cut the oem starter pad off the (LSx) and use the LS4 4T65E-HD (or my LS4 starter mount might work on a normal 4T65E-HD)

Man just talking about all this is making my wallet cry!