Has anyone in the history of Pennock's installed a separate fuel cell, maybe up front in addition to the stock fuel cell for extra miles capability? I was just wondering, as I could envision a small one being placed up front w/ separate solenoid controls like a duel tank set-up on trucks, etc. This would be useful in the western half of the US for longer cruises.

While not specifically a fuel cell, there was some discussion a while back - and I believe even a product created in by a PFF member and currently being sold in The Mall - of a custom-built replacement aluminum fuel tank that fits in the normal tank area & slightly up'ed fuel capacity a tad bit. I don't think it was of much higher capacity, but could be something to look into.

I would personally be somewhat concerned about placing a fuel cell up front although I know it has been done before on dedicated track Fieros, simply because if you're still using the stock gas tank also you have to have a setup where you could switch from the gas tank to the fuel cell. Obviously that leaves much more chances of errors or mechanical malfunctions occurring.

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: While not specifically a fuel cell, there was some discussion a while back - and I believe even a product created in by a PFF member and currently being sold in The Mall - of a custom-built replacement aluminum fuel tank that fits in the normal tank area & slightly up'ed fuel capacity a tad bit. I don't think it was of much higher capacity, but could be something to look into. I would personally be somewhat concerned about placing a fuel cell up front although I know it has been done before on dedicated track Fieros, simply because if you're still using the stock gas tank also you have to have a setup where you could switch from the gas tank to the fuel cell. Obviously that leaves much more chances of errors or mechanical malfunctions occurring.

I think it was jose who did the tank mod.

I would be concerned in the event of a collision especially at the front.

jon

What about an auxilliary tank up front with a filler cap on it. Modifiy the original tank to connect a hose between the two. VW Bugs had their gas tanks up front. I've never heard any horror stories about them and they were driven off road a bunch.

Jonathan

I remember last time this was discussed people saying the added weight wherever you put the extra tank would be the problem.

A couple of guys with the F355 replicas have done it.

I don't need a lot of extra fuel. I would like to get 300 miles between fill-ups, though.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: A couple of guys with the F355 replicas have done it.

Yeah I knew a guy with a replica that had an extra 5 gallons up front with it's own fuel pump. At some random point in his cross country journey he was able to transfer the fuel into his main tank. He was able to do this while underway without missing a beat.

This would extend your range, but he was running a V8 and this did not extend his range to 300 miles. I was able to get more range with my stock 2.8L and stock 88 fuel tank.

Driven correctly under the right conditions and if your engine is in good tune, 300 miles on a tank is possible. I've driven 275 miles in my 88GT and didn't run out of gas (I was probably real close though). I think the four cylinders with the manual trans should have no problem getting 300 miles on a tank. For what its worth, the 87/88 tanks are a little bigger than the 84-86 tanks, I think almost two gallons bigger. My 88 owners manual says the tank is 11.9 gallons. Anyone know if the later tanks will bolt into the earlier cars?
I used to drive my Chevy Silverado until I got the low fuel warning all the time (and the pump died at 110,000 miles) but now I try not to take any of my fuel injected cars lower than 1/4 because the fuel is what cools the pump.

If you are on a road trip the ~11 gallon Fiero gas tank should get you well over 200 miles and over 3 hours of drive time, which is time for a bladder break. Since I have been driving my Fieros all over and on familiar roads, I know where the gas stops are for these 200-250 mile stops where I'll pump in 7-9 gallons of gas. I reset my trip odometer at each fill up, since the gas guage may not be accurate.

Assuming the tank is 11 gallons and every drop of it was usable, you'd have to get 27 mpg to reach 300 miles on one fill-up. That kind of mpg isn't likely and you definately can't use all the fuel.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Assuming the tank is 11 gallons and every drop of it was usable, you'd have to get 27 mpg to reach 300 miles on one fill-up. That kind of mpg isn't likely and you definately can't use all the fuel. Jonathan

Not true.... my 25 year old 2.8L V6 mated to the Getrag 5 -speed will easily get in the 30+ mpg on the highway. The 4 cylinder 5 speed will do even better. Although I don't recommend it, there is no reason you can' run the tank bone dry. But even if you only use 10 gallons the 300+ miles is achievable in a bone stock Fiero.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Not true.... my 25 year old 2.8L V6 mated to the Getrag 5 -speed will easily get in the 30+ mpg on the highway. The 4 cylinder 5 speed will do even better. Although I don't recommend it, there is no reason you can' run the tank bone dry. But even if you only use 10 gallons the 300+ miles is achievable in a bone stock Fiero.

As the old saying goes, my mileage must have varried. I have an 87 V6 5-speed and never got into the 30's. I felt lucky to get 25 mpg.

You can also think what you want about starving the fuel pump. I had problems with mine every time it sucked air. I've probably changed it 4 times. You don't have to be bone dry for that to happen. Just run it low and let it slosh away from the pickup. I could hear the distinct whine every time it happened. Each time, within a few days, I'd be stranded. Changed pump, good to go. Could there be other issues taking part? Maybe, I don't know. I do know that when I started filling up when I had a fourth of a tank left, I stopped burning up fuel pumps.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Assuming the tank is 11 gallons and every drop of it was usable, you'd have to get 27 mpg to reach 300 miles on one fill-up. That kind of mpg isn't likely and you definately can't use all the fuel. Jonathan

My 88 2.5/125C DD routinely takes 10.5 gallons at a fill up with no sputtering/stalling on the way to the gas station. One of these days I will either run out of gas or hit the 11 gallon fillup.

My old 4.3/4T60 would pull down 32-33 mpg on the highway and on long drives get more than 300 miles/tank.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: As the old saying goes, my mileage must have varried. I have an 87 V6 5-speed and never got into the 30's. I felt lucky to get 25 mpg. You can also think what you want about starving the fuel pump. I had problems with mine every time it sucked air. I've probably changed it 4 times. You don't have to be bone dry for that to happen. Just run it low and let it slosh away from the pickup. I could hear the distinct whine every time it happened. Each time, within a few days, I'd be stranded. Changed pump, good to go. Could there be other issues taking part? Maybe, I don't know. I do know that when I started filling up when I had a fourth of a tank left, I stopped burning up fuel pumps. Jonathan

Yeah a lot of variables on an old car. I never got better than 26 mpg on my 88 4 cyl auto. Very disappointed with that, so I got rid of it, (the engine, not the car).

If your fuel pump is sloshing around and sucking air, yeah that can't be good for it. I generally fill up at the halfway point because I don't trust the Fiero gas gauge as far as I can throw it.

I had toyed with the idea a few times of a removable tank in the front.I thought about taping the factory tank with a cutoff,in the front,a small cheap electric fuel pump on it.then if I was going on a long drive I could put the spare tire in the back trunk,drop the front tank in,hook up the hose to the external pump.Then I could just switch the pump on to dump the tank on while driving to fill up the factory tank.Then remove it when I didnt require it...

From what I have read the issue with the extra tank up front is that when its full/partially full the weight changed the handling so dramatically that the people that did the mod pulled it pretty quickly because of the cost/benefit of having it. I could see a cross country thing being worth it though and the idea of a removable job would be a friggin' great idea! For what its worth IMHO the best would be a aluminum job mentioned above with a removable front tank with like 5 gal max and drain it ASAP to get back handling.....

quote Originally posted by jaredmurray88: From what I have read the issue with the extra tank up front is that when its full/partially full the weight changed the handling so dramatically that the people that did the mod pulled it pretty quickly because of the cost/benefit of having it. I could see a cross country thing being worth it though and the idea of a removable job would be a friggin' great idea! For what its worth IMHO the best would be a aluminum job mentioned above with a removable front tank with like 5 gal max and drain it ASAP to get back handling.....

This makes no sense. 5 gallons of gas weights less than 30 pounds. The battery weighs more than that and people regularly put them in the front to improve handling.

You could do this as a Jerry can:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spa...em43b926ca6f&vxp=mtr

Or this as a full time extra tank:

http://www.4secondsflat.com...%20fuel%20tanks.html

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: As the old saying goes, my mileage must have varried. I have an 87 V6 5-speed and never got into the 30's. I felt lucky to get 25 mpg. Jonathan

same here - never got more than 27 with a v6. But there are people here that swear they get astronomical mileage, even as much as 50 mpg w/ a v6! I've seen people with engine swaps claim into the mid- 30s, but i'm betting they have not re-calibrated the speedo and it's mis-reading (and so is the odometer).

i think the EPA mileage on a factory widow sticker was something like 17 city / 23 highway for the v6.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 03-01-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Rick Vanderpool: This makes no sense. 5 gallons of gas weights less than 30 pounds. The battery weighs more than that and people regularly put them in the front to improve handling.

... and some of them even mount the battery under the pass. side headlight

I merely used the 5 gal as a swag meaning that putting an ungodly amount of gas up there is a BAD idea and batteries don't change in weight as they "drain" the changing as weight will vary the handling widely in comparison to how much fuel is in it... hence why I said drain ASAP so its not pumping down as you are going around a corner at a cloverleaf or something and the steering starts to change possibly causing a wreck.... just a thought I had take it for what its worth

Didn't the real Indy Pace Cars have an extra fuel cell up front?

Yep, found a picture:



Looks like the PPG pacers had them as well.



Somebody get Fred on the line.

[This message has been edited by tesmith66 (edited 03-02-2013).]

I was just reviewing my 2012 chart of my mpg in my 87 GT five speed. My average for 2012 was 30.58 mpg. The highest mpg was 36.3 and the lowest was 24.4 mpg. I was getting 28.1 mpg, even with climbing Mt Evans during the tankful of gas with a lot of second gear, third gear driving both up and down the mountain.. I varied gas brands, octane levels (85 octane for regular in Colorado) with a few tanks of 89, 93 octane and a couple of fillups with no ethanol gas. I saw no drastic differences in mpg using different brands or octane.

As far as sloshing goes I suppose if the cell had foam in it instead of a few baffles like most or if it had a bit more purpose built baffles to reduce the side to side slosh that would take care of the slosh issue. As far as a added tank in the pace cars they were driven by REAL DRIVERS not Joe Schmo that bought a GTO so they probably drained it dry as a popcorn fart either before the main tank or as soon as the main had room to take the transfer. Without having a actual driver for a go to guy this won't be known very easily. I'm not saying you will kill yourself or anything but it could be a big mistake if not driven the right way and the weight would be nice up front but on a course that much extra could throw your skills off from normal and cost you a badly needed corner but in a pit you could shave off time for a refuel stop so if so inclined go for it heck the removable idea would be awesome IMO and maybe I would do that for long trips in mine someday and remove it for usual use.

The PPG car's front tank doesn't appear to have a sending unit built in. It only has a filtered vent and a fill cap. My guess would be that it connects directly to the main tank and gravity feeds into it. That's the way I'd want mine. I'd just eliminate the side filler and fill from the front trunk like a Classic VW Beetle.

Jonathan

Grav feed for sure would be better as far as needing to watch main for fill and driving issues then putting a valve to make it removable... man between all the guys on here we may just have a plan lol