I'm in the process of swapping a 3800SC from a '98 Buick Park Avenue Ultra. I have to make the choice of which ECU is best for this application. Obviously I have the '98, but I also have one from a '97 Park Avenue as well as a "98 Grand Prix. My question is which of these would be best or should I look elsewhere.

I've read a couple threads here on the forum (some fairly old) and have different impressions

'97 is "unique. It's OBD-II but, according to Ryan doesn't require a "learning" process after initial install.

'98 Grand prix has the advantage of no anti-theft programming, so I may be able to start the vehicle even before getting it flashed? This and later ECUs will require the learning process after the initial setup? That's problematic in that I will have the ECU setup by one of the forum members who are located several states away. Don't know how to accomplish the follow-up process.

Is there a better starting point?

The engine is going into my track car. I'm using the Getrag 5-speed, hence do not need auto tranny codes. Compression is bumped to 9.75:1 with a 3.4" pulley. EGR can be deleted if the tuner thinks it's best.

Thanks for any advice on this.

Don

quote Originally posted by DonP: '98 Grand prix has the advantage of no anti-theft programming, so I may be able to start the vehicle even before getting it flashed? This and later ECUs will require the learning process after the initial setup? That's problematic in that I will have the ECU setup by one of the forum members who are located several states away. Don't know how to accomplish the follow-up process. The engine is going into my track car. I'm using the Getrag 5-speed, hence do not need auto tranny codes. Compression is bumped to 9.75:1 with a 3.4" pulley. EGR can be deleted if the tuner thinks it's best. Thanks for any advice on this. Don

Go with the 98 Grand Prix. It will start and run the car just filne as long as you keep th e stock parts (injectors, MAF,etc)
I ASSUME the wiring harness will be programmed for 98-02 Grand Prix.
Track Car and Getrag 282 may not be the optimal solution. Better go with an F23 if you plan on modding for Moar Powah.
Delete EGR and EVAP as they are NOT needed on a Track Car.
The 98 PCM will mount in the stock Fiero location as the 97 will NOT.

The "relearn" process the 98-newer PCMs require is known as a CASE Learn (associated DTC: P1336). What it does is calibrates that particular PCM to the crank sensor used on your engine.

Now, you can start and drive the car even with the P1336 code set without doing the CASE Learn. But the check engine will always be on until you get it done, and you should NOT beat on it until you get the CASE Learn done. The CASE Learn takes about a minute to do with a proper scan tool and you might be able to find a shop local to you that will do it without charging you an arm and a leg.

1997 and 1996 PCMs are bigger in size and also use an older electronic architecture. The 98-up systems are much better in all respects, even despite the need to have CASE Learns done.

If you are using a manual trans or 98-02 4T65-E auto in your swap, use a PCM that is compatible with 98-2000 model year programming. If you are using an 03-newer 4T65-E, you'll need to use an 03 PCM due to the differences in the newer transmissions.

-ryan

------------------
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

Another thing to consider is the pre-98 ones have a built in knock sensor, you don't want this.. Go with 98+ computer and have the knock sensors on the engine.

------------------
86 Fiero GT 4spd - (pending L67 swap)
98 GTP - Some mods

Wow, a lot of good information. Would the '98 Grand Prix be the same as the '98 Park Avenue? Or is the Grand Prix the only one without the anti-theft coding?

It's a track car, but I'm more interested in longevity tha being a 10/10ths or even a 9.5/10th power plant.

Many thanks!

Dom

The fiero Getrag is not going to last long if you plan
on running the 3800SC hard. Way too much torque.

quote Originally posted by sco77: Another thing to consider is the pre-98 ones have a built in knock sensor, you don't want this.. Go with 98+ computer and have the knock sensors on the engine.

No knock sensor is built into the PCM. All knock sensors always install into the engine no matter what the application (that is if it uses knock sensors, not all applications use knock sensors).

97-prior PCMs had a removable knock module (so they could be changed out). Starting in 1998, GM redesigned the knock detection system presumably so the PCM could "auto learn" what knock sensor it was hooked up to (or however it works). Anyway, I've found the new way works better than the old way, so that's another reason why to use the 98-up PCMs.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: The fiero Getrag is not going to last long if you plan on running the 3800SC hard. Way too much torque.

X 2

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Compression is bumped to 9.75:1 with a 3.4" pulley.

This is really bad unless you know what you are doing... The "right" sized pulley for that compression is a 4.2, aka much bigger than stock.... what else are you doing to help run that 3.4?

Thanks for the input regarding the F23. I had read the threads and actually take note of what cars hit the yards around here. But I have three 282 transmissions in the back and that's taking the pressure off. At least in the short term

I may have been confused on the pulley. I'll have to give the builder a call to confirm the specs. That's what I wrote, may not have been what he said.

But at this point I'm concentrating on the PCM. I will need to get a unit properly set-up before hitting the track in a few weeks. The CASE learn is a bit of a concern. I had a local guy set up our Series 1 engine PCM and that was an ordeal. So we need to look elsewhere.

Thanks again. for the direction.
Don