That's about $12 worth of tubes for $200...($48 shipping.... ) Then you have to zip tie it everywhere. You know what P T Barnum said.
Why would you zip tie them when you just use the original mounting points. They also come already formed - time is money and not everyone has a tube bender.
As for the OP, I see nothing wrong with them, I have used a couple of short pieces to replace some hard lines that have cracked - you would just have to worry about the areas that are close to the exhaust and other heat sources and moving parts.
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02:13 PM
olejoedad Member
Posts: 19779 From: Clarendon Twp., MI Registered: May 2004
The Vacuum Lines are hard for a reason. They hold up better over the long run without deterioration. Soft lines eventually become porous. They can also collapse to some degree under a vacuum. Either condition may cause inaccurate vacuum readings to be received at the other end.
As an example, under wide open throttle, you need the fuel pressure regulator to be supplied with the proper vacuum that it will open up enough to allow ample fuel to be supplied. Soft lines, especially aged ones, may collapse or leak and shut off your fuel supply.
Do not use them. I've used them on other vehicles,and they don't hold up. They will flatten out after they soften up. They work great for very short connections like a couple inches. I used the ones that used to be available in a kit @ autozone. I notice they haven't carried that kit in quite awhile,I can imagine why.
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03:25 PM
urbex Member
Posts: 248 From: Glendale, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2012
Originally posted by fierofool:As an example, under wide open throttle, you need the fuel pressure regulator to be supplied with the proper vacuum that it will open up enough to allow ample fuel to be supplied. Soft lines, especially aged ones, may collapse or leak and shut off your fuel supply.
You don't understand how a fuel pressure regulator works at all, do you? Here's a hint - go start up your car, and yank the vacuum line off. $100 says the fuel flow doesn't stop.
Hard lines aren't used for life expectancy - it's an assembly line thing. Hard plastic lines are a lot quicker to install properly on an assembly line, as well as being considerably cheaper than rubber lines.
Interesting to note though - I often see silicone being recommended as an "upgrade" on forums for turbo systems, particularly for the couplers on the charge tubing, saying they'll last a lot longer than rubber in the hot engine bay, but not recommended for vacuum lines, because of that same issue of deterioration.
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04:18 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12484 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
I used them on a SBC swap back in 2003. Within a week at normal engine temps the silicone hoses would collapse with the vacuum. Once I saw that, I yanked them off, threw them in the trash and been using rubber or hard lines ever since.
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05:03 PM
urbex Member
Posts: 248 From: Glendale, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2012
I used them on a SBC swap back in 2003. Within a week at normal engine temps the silicone hoses would collapse with the vacuum. Once I saw that, I yanked them off, threw them in the trash and been using rubber or hard lines ever since.
I wonder if those were low grade, or not really a silicone. Silicone describes a type of material, not a specific one, and there are many formulations that are rated for well over engine bay temps....even the relatively hot Fiero engine bay.
I've never used the stuff, as I've always been perfectly happy with regular rubber hoses..just kind of thinking out loud here.
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06:20 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierofool Member
Posts: 12956 From: Auburn, Georgia USA Registered: Jan 2002
You don't understand how a fuel pressure regulator works at all, do you? Here's a hint - go start up your car, and yank the vacuum line off. $100 says the fuel flow doesn't stop.
Hard lines aren't used for life expectancy - it's an assembly line thing. Hard plastic lines are a lot quicker to install properly on an assembly line, as well as being considerably cheaper than rubber lines.
Interesting to note though - I often see silicone being recommended as an "upgrade" on forums for turbo systems, particularly for the couplers on the charge tubing, saying they'll last a lot longer than rubber in the hot engine bay, but not recommended for vacuum lines, because of that same issue of deterioration.
Probably not fully, but I would think at Wide Open Throttle, you're going to begin starving for fuel if the rubber lines can't stand up to the vacuum applied.
Agreed that it's faster to drop in a vacuum line assembly, such as is used on the Fiero V6. Use a jig, lay the lines install the clips and it can be shipped to the assembly plant as a unit. Saves a lot of time in straightening out the ends and pretty much guarantees a proper connection. But I'm sure that the material used on the Fiero vacuum lines is still out-living by far any original rubber products in the engine bay. So, the use of hard lines has a two or three-fold purpose.
True silicone isn't recommended for use in the engine bay where it can be breathed by the engine. The newer compounds don't have the component that destroys catalytic converters.
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06:41 PM
FieroJimmy Member
Posts: 744 From: Mechanicsburg, PA Registered: May 2002
Probably not fully, but I would think at Wide Open Throttle, you're going to begin starving for fuel if the rubber lines can't stand up to the vacuum applied.
At part throttle/idle, the manifold vacuum pulls against the FPR's spring to reduce fuel pressure when the engine doesn't need as much and to ensure the same relative fuel pressure. At wide open the manifold (assuming an intake without excessive restriction) will be at atmospheric pressure, thus no vacuum. Fuel injected FPRs don't use ported vacuum sources.
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06:53 PM
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
You don't want to use silicone lines for vacuum, as stated in above posts, they get hot, then soft, then collapse, they cool down and stay flat. Compleatly worthless. If you want metal lines, go to a hobby store, they sell all sizes of tubing. Costs under $10 and just bend them with your hand, the tube bender doesn't work too well on the lines. Rodneys are just a huge watse of money.
Rodney's tubes are awesome, I had a set on my 2.8. I would have said there was no way I would pay $100 for them... Until I had a set. You will never have to replace them and you will never have a leak.
Originally posted by sardonyx247: Costs under $10 and just bend them with your hand, the tube bender doesn't work too well on the lines. Rodneys are just a huge watse of money.
There's no way you'll get clean, TIGHT, bends that match OEM routing like Rodney's kit has by bending hobby store tubing by hand. BTDT, have used that tubing plenty for custom fab work, and which is why I ponied up for proper tubing benders for the stuff. Which really isn't that expensive at all...you can get the tubing and benders for less than Rodney's setup, but there's still a significant amount of time that goes into making it look good. Sure, you can slap together something quick that would be functional, but not if you want it to match the OEM setup.
Knowing the amount of labor that goes into it, I'd Rodney's setup isn't a bad deal at all, and if I was planning on keeping the stock 2,8 setup in my car, I would have already ordered it.
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08:58 PM
Dec 18th, 2012
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
There's no way you'll get clean, TIGHT, bends that match OEM routing like Rodney's kit has by bending hobby store tubing by hand. BTDT, have used that tubing plenty for custom fab work, and which is why I ponied up for proper tubing benders for the stuff. Which really isn't that expensive at all...you can get the tubing and benders for less than Rodney's setup, but there's still a significant amount of time that goes into making it look good. Sure, you can slap together something quick that would be functional, but not if you want it to match the OEM setup.
Knowing the amount of labor that goes into it, I'd Rodney's setup isn't a bad deal at all, and if I was planning on keeping the stock 2,8 setup in my car, I would have already ordered it.
So you say there is no way that I allready did exactly what I have posted? My lines are exacty routed and bent like factory lines, I have zero leaks from them for the last 5 years. (useing a leak teaster to verify) and it cost me all of about $8. I tried a tubing bender at first, I found it was smoother and easier to bend by hand. I did all the lines while I watched a movie, so not too much time involved. So don't say there is no way I could ever do such a thing, because I did, and I am not the first/or only one who has. And I recommend that everyone else that needs lines to do the same. Just think of what else you can buy for your Fiero with that extra $100 you save.
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02:35 PM
Gall757 Member
Posts: 10938 From: Holland, MI Registered: Jun 2010
So this just points out that some people have more money than talent, and some have more talent than money... If you can do it, great, but I was happy getting Rodney to bend mine and make them all shiny for $100...
sardonyx247, I'm sure that you did it and probably did a top notch job. It isn't like Rodney has magic. I will say that the one tube has a large end over the tube that was well done.
I tried to do it with some brake tubing from the auto store but I ended up with kinks that closed most of the tube. After getting frustrated I gave up on it. Sad that it was so hard on me, I would rather weld or do a harness then bend those tubes...
I have a full set of rodneys stainless tubes and a stainless egr flex pipe from him aswell that I have for sale pm me if your interested... I've got a 3.1 and a 3800 sc so they're sitting ready to be sold. Great christmas present to yourself
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09:15 AM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7569 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
So you say there is no way that I allready did exactly what I have posted? My lines are exacty routed and bent like factory lines, I have zero leaks from them for the last 5 years. (useing a leak teaster to verify) and it cost me all of about $8. I tried a tubing bender at first, I found it was smoother and easier to bend by hand. I did all the lines while I watched a movie, so not too much time involved. So don't say there is no way I could ever do such a thing, because I did, and I am not the first/or only one who has. And I recommend that everyone else that needs lines to do the same. Just think of what else you can buy for your Fiero with that extra $100 you save.
It would all depend on what the tubing is made of, Rodney's is stainless steel which would be near impossible to put a 90° bend in it without it kinking without a tube bender. Softer tubing yes, but the ones made from harder metals, no.
Not saying it can't be done on the cheap, just that people need to be aware of the differences - also part of Rodney's cost is his time for bending them (never mind how much more stainless line cost), you expect him to work for free?
lol, to each their own folks...some of us have better talents than others, and some of us would rather have things made well or have no time....or patience!
bless ya all!
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01:47 PM
Dec 20th, 2012
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
It would all depend on what the tubing is made of, Rodney's is stainless steel which would be near impossible to put a 90° bend in it without it kinking without a tube bender. Softer tubing yes, but the ones made from harder metals, no.
Not saying it can't be done on the cheap, just that people need to be aware of the differences - also part of Rodney's cost is his time for bending them (never mind how much more stainless line cost), you expect him to work for free?
My lines are made out of aluminum, and I put a mirror polish on them before I bent them. Aluminum is easier to bend than SS, I never tried to bend SS tubes for this project. ( I have for other projects) And no I don't want to hear SS is better than aluminum, blah, blah. Aluminum works great for such a simple project. After 5 years I still have no leaks and the mirror polish is still like new. They will last a lifetime. I tried a tubing bender at first, but found it worked better by hand. BTW a tubing bender is dirt cheap anyway http://www.harborfreight.co...ing-bender-3755.html $7 They (hobby stores) also have the tubing in brass if you want a trick look to it.
I agree, to each thier own, I am just providing way to do it yourself for a LOT less money, and the pride of doing it yourself. I wanted to explain how I did it so other can follow, if they want.
) Then you have to zip tie it everywhere. You know what P T Barnum said.
