Good Afternoon you guys, i have a 85 SE V6 AUTO

I did a ignition overhaul on my car and it still shuts off. Parts changed are as follows, plugs, wires, brand new distributor, brand new rotor and cap, brand new coil, brand new fuel pump, replaced the fuel rail with newer injectors, brand new fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pressure is exactly where it needs to be.

Problem is this, I start the car, and maybe after 10-20 seconds it shuts off. Every time. Now with the distributor, my dad and i missed a crucial step. We did not set the timing of the rotor. So could it be shutting off because the engine is not properly timed? Any help will be appreciated!

Could be your injectors are faulty, they should read within .5 OHMs of each other and specs are 12-16 OHMs I believe. If they are above or below specs or if the OHM difference is off between all 6 injectors it could cause this kind of problem.

It "could" be the timing.
Long shot, but I had the same issue last year. Ended up needing to replace the ECM.

Would fire up, run for a bit, and then cut out. New one fixed it instantly.

Isn't the ECM what is bolted on to the distributor under the cap? If so, thats new as well.

The ECM is the engine computer on fire wall, interior side, under the center console.
The ICM is in the distributor.

Have you checked for any codes?

-Dave

I have not checked for codes, don't have a code reader. And how would i check if the ECM is bad?

quote Originally posted by 85FieroFL: I have not checked for codes, don't have a code reader. And how would i check if the ECM is bad?

All you need is a bent paper clip to check codes.
Take the two screws holding the plate by the cig lighter. There is a connector in there. Jump the A and B terminals, and turn the key until power kicks in(should hear your fuel pump prime) Your check engine light will flash in series three times, and then start flashing codes.

As far as the ECM is concerned. I just swapped it out with a different one. Picked up a used one on ebay for $20.

I will try to check for codes tonight when i get home from work.

I have no problem buying another ECM, but whos to say that the used one i buy isn't bad either? So is their a way of checking if its working or not? And where would i find another ECM?

If you are looking for "new" fiero store has them.

As far as ebay, it is hit and miss.

Most have guarantees or return times in case it does not work.
I personally have had a good run with ebay used items. Anything purchased that didn't work or that was not fully there was either returned with little hassle or a deal was cut.

If the ECM is going, you should see a code 51 (PROM Failure), or 52 (Fuel CALPAK Failure), or 55 (ECM Failure).

-Dave

quote Originally posted by IFLYR22: If the ECM is going, you should see a code 51 (PROM Failure), or 52 (Fuel CALPAK Failure), or 55 (ECM Failure). -Dave

Wouldn't it exactly depend on how its going.

A new ECM definitively fixed my issue, but there was not a single code relating to it.

What kind of ECM do i get? I see on the Fiero store that it has one ECM for my 85 V6. So does that mean I cant put a 86 V6 AUTO in mine? Can anyone help me determine which ECM to buy. I have a couple of PM's from some member but both are from a 86. Mine is 85.

quote Originally posted by 85FieroFL: Isn't the ECM what is bolted on to the distributor under the cap? If so, thats new as well.

Does your car go from 'running fine' to 'nothing'? If so, I would wonder about another bad new ICM. After the car has quit, turn the key and watch the tachometer. Does it go up to 200-400 or just sit on the peg? ECMs don't fail that way, and hardly fail at all. ICMs fail that way all the time (and their connectors are suspect too).

When i just turn the key on the tach doesn't spike.

Does it move?

Yeah it moves when I rev the engine for the short time that I have it on for.

I am asking what it does when the car does not start. When you crank the engine trying to start it does the tach needle move?

I can start the car. That's not a problem. The problem is that it shuts off 10-20 seconds later. When I hit the gas while it's on, the tach does move. Now when it dies on me, and I turn the key to on and ignition off the tach doesn't spike. At that point it doesn't move.

OK....cranking the starter and the engine does not start, and the tach does not move. That means primary ignition parts are not working.....ICM, pickup coil, and related wires and connectors.

I think the OP is saying that anytime he cranks it, the car does start so he doesn't see the tach do anything except what is normal, come up to idle RPM or go up when he gasses it. Then it dies. Is that correct?

What Gall757 is saying is that if it won't start and you have to crank and crank, what does the tach do? Is that correct, Gall757?

Super Duty, exactly!

The car dies but it re-starts every time?

Yup

Ooooohhh.....

Have you tried to run the car on starting fluid? It could be that you are getting gas from the cold start injector and your regular injectors are not working. You can check the 2 injector fuses, INJ1 and INJ2.

If the car restarts every time, it is not running on the cold start injector. The temp switch for the cold start injector has a heater in it. That heater will then cause the cold start injector thermostat to open and the cold start injector will stop injecting. You can get one or two starts from it. The start will last just a few seconds. Then you would need to let the car sit for 15 min before it would start again.

I do like the idea of seeing if the car will continue to run if you use starting fluid. That will give you the indication of which path to take - ignition or fuel.

You are sure about the fuel pressure? 42 minus manifold vacuum?

Does the tach always show the actual RPM of the engine? Does that tach show the 200 RPM during cranking? Does the tach die quicker than the engine stops rotating? (yeah I know it is hard to tell)

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-25-2012).]

I second the injector check...

Ive gotten bad ICM (ignition module) several times brand new out of the box. The ECM is specific to the engine in the car...they dont interchange. If it starts and runs fine for a few minutes, its not timing. Check all the wires going to the ICM and distributor to make sure the wire AND connectors are good. Could be a failing ignition coil also. Sounds more like electrical than fuel problem to me.

I have not tried the starting fluid but i will try that. And i will be checking the fuses.

I am positive of the fuel pressure. It is dead on and it creeps down at a snails pace.

Damn that would suck if the ICM is bad since its brand new. But i think the wires might be at fault here. So i will check those first. How exactly would i go about checking them correctly? And the ignition coil has been changed twice.

Just use a continuity tester to see if the wire is good inside the insulation. The connectors should be clean and contacts shiny and not corroded, and make a firm connection to the tangs. Lots of the plastic connectors go bad just because of the heat their exposed to under the hood.

I paste this file often please read it, and note the no tach movement.

Your’s could be a common problem and don’t cost anything to check.
Try this:
Watch the tach when cranking if it don’t move you're not getting pulses from the distributor. If so, it could be a faulty module in it or more likely simply corroded connectors at the base of the distributor. Reseating those connectors a few times could clean the pins some and also do the same to the connectors on the coil etc. These cars are old, and old connectors corrode. Such can also manifest itself as intermittent misfires, and engine cutouts.

BTW: lots of folks keep replacing modules and coils thinking they are bad because the new ones FIX the problem, when in actuality the fact that they simply unpluged the connectors and repluged them into the new unit cleaned the contacts enough to make it work again, at least for a while. It's smart, to replace those old connectors with new ones.
BTW: Cliphouse has those connectors

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trueleo.com
RSpiderII@aol.com

I know you said the fuel pressure is good, but did you check it while running? If the strainer is clogged in the tank, the pump is weak or the fuel filter is clogged, it may be that the pump can build pressure at prime, but cannot flow enough fuel at a high enough pressure to continue to run the engine. The prime pressure bleeds off after starting and you run out of fuel, the engine stalls.

Easy enough to rent/borrow a fuel pressure gauge from an auto parts store... was there crap in the tank when you had the pump out?

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 07-26-2012).]

Nope, nothing in the tank. And yes for the breif time i had the car on i kept my eye on the fuel pressure, constant 42 or 43.

I am buying the ICM connectors now so we'll go that route first. Then we'll do the starting fluid if that doesn't help. Thanks everyone! Will keep this post updated!

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ive gotten bad ICM (ignition module) several times brand new out of the box.

Repeated for emphasis. It's a hard lesson to learn. There is a lot of junk out there.

I have had this problem with two1985 fieros that I resurected, both times it was the ECM.

Try Fiero Jon for the proper ECM

http://www.jmcarcare.com/

Update time:

I changed all the fuses that we're bad, they are all good now.
Checked for codes, their were none.
I purchased the coil to distributor wire, the other distributor connector and the two other ignition coil connectors that overlap each other.
When cranking the tach moves between 100-200.
The distributor is brand new. Came with a new module, rotor and cap.

So what now you guys? Wait until the connectors arrive and see what happens then? Buy a used/new ECM?

See if the engine will run for an extended period of time on starting fluid so you can at least know if this is an ignition problem, or a fuel delivery problem.

Where do i spray the starting fluid? And how would i know which is the problem?

Take this for what it is worth because I am not a mechanic, but you say it will start and run for ten seconds then die. Could this be the oil pressure switch? Once the ECM recognizes the car has started the fuel pump is switched through the oil pressure switch. If the switch is faulty and not sending a good signal this could shut the fuel pump off and kill the engine. Again I am not a mechanic so please anyone if I am way out in left field please speak up.

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1984 Base Coupe Red Stock MY8
1984 SE Black Stock

2002 Grand Prix GTP 40th Anniv. Stock

Thanks Lurtz! ^^^ Anyone know if this is possible?