I've got an oppertunity to get my hands on a LX5 engine, which I would use to swap into my Fiero. My reasons for liking this engine are simple: It's all aluminum, it's DOHC, it puts out over 200hp and it bolts up to GM FWD bellhousings. I'm not interested in an engine debate. This engine fits what I'm interested in.
What I want to know is simple: how long are these engines good for before they have problems of need a rebuild? This one has ~200k KMs on it. (~130K Miles). I was hoping it would have well under that, and I'd probably be all over it if it was, but it is what it is. (cheap, but higher milage). So...are they prone to head gaskets failing at a certain point, or the timing chain snapping or simply wearing out after a certain point, or would htis thing be good for another 100k?
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ericjon262 Member
Posts: 3136 From: everywhere. Registered: Jan 2010
my understanding is that they are very similar to the northstar in design, but definitely not a northstar with 2 cylinders removed, so I would be concerned with headgaskets, although I can't say for sure. I like the idea though.
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same i heard these motors were actually pretty decent for everything you are looking for. as for problems its pretty close to any engine for little nickel and dime parts. just keep an eye on your oil as GM always did have a problem with DOHC engines burning oil right off the factory line from what ive heard. if you were to swap the motor in i would atleast just go over all the gaskets including the headgaskets as a precaution unless low mileage ~50k-60k. as a side note i had a guy who had a northstar motor who claimed that GM put a program in the computer to open ports to allow coolant to get into the engine to have the customer go to a repair shop to spend big $$$ to have them replaced. he also claimed that he had a guy remove the program at a charge of $200 that cured his problem anyone ever hear of such a thing? otherwise i think he was just another crazy guy but it kinda intrigued me if GM would ever do such a thing.
I myself wouldn't touch that motor. They're known for headgaskets going and like the.northstars they're a pain to even attemp to change. But its.honestly all up to you they plant some good power but from what I've seen (cheap cheap craigslist finds) they don't last very long.
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Jun 17th, 2012
Stubby79 Member
Posts: 7064 From: GFY county, FY. Registered: Aug 2008
I myself wouldn't touch that motor. They're known for headgaskets going and like the.northstars they're a pain to even attemp to change. But its.honestly all up to you they plant some good power but from what I've seen (cheap cheap craigslist finds) they don't last very long.
I'm not defending this motor in particular, but I'd think most head gaskets go because of how the engine is treated (ie driving like an idiot, not doing proper/complete engine maintenance) more than due to poor quality or design. Unless they're renown for blowing head gaskets at 50k. Of course, some engines are over-designed or otherwise happen to be more resistant to being mistreated than others and end up being considered more dependable because of it.
I have yet to blow up an engine in any way, and I have some seriously high-milage vehicles. None with particularly bullet-proof engines. Anyway, enough ranting.
Well your options are. Buy a high mileage one - - Install it, run it until failure - Replace ga$ket$, timing chain/belt. Install until next failure point - Replace gaskets, get debris inside, spin bearings Buy low mileage one - - Install it, run it until failure
Buy low to high mileage 3800. - Install it, boost it, run 10's and 30mpg, forever.
ha! Yeah, from what I can tell, the 3800s are one of the few of those over-engineered ones out there. Not my cup of tea, though. Take 150lbs off of it, and I'd probably go for one. I'd still prefer a high-revving dual cam though.
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ericjon262 Member
Posts: 3136 From: everywhere. Registered: Jan 2010
Well your options are. Buy a high mileage one - - Install it, run it until failure - Replace ga$ket$, timing chain/belt. Install until next failure point - Replace gaskets, get debris inside, spin bearings Buy low mileage one - - Install it, run it until failure
Buy low to high mileage 3800. - Install it, boost it, run 10's and 30mpg, forever.
3800 is your answer to everything....
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It really is, but he isn't wrong either... I will never argue against the fact that a forced induction 3800 is the most cost effective swap in existence.
That said, I wouldn't spend any amount of money to put one in my car either. I prefer unique swaps, the Short * LX5, 3500 LX9, 3900 or Ecotec are just much more interesting to me. I happen to like the 3500 LX9 because it is the last of the standard push-rod 60* V6 engine family that the 2.8 gave birth to back in 1980...
The LX5 is interesting because it should be stronger than the 3.4 TDC, but no one has tested it. Most likely because of the stock ECM being used unmodified on exisiting swaps, like Rickady88GT's. It was a clean sheet block built up in the same fashion as the rest of the Northstar family, but not a direct derivative of the V8 engines, different bore centers, etc... It uses timing chains, which should make it more reliable than the 3.4 and it makes a squeak more power at 215/235 vs. 210/215... it is a 90* degree V6 but it uses the same trick as the 3800's split pin crank to spoof even fire.
Every engine has weaknesses, some are easily fixed or only present themselves in poor operating conditions, but if you search any vehicle, the engine is always crap. That's why the W-bodies with the 3.4 TDC in the junk yard around here have 150-175k miles on them... And looking at the engine bay, you can tell that timing belt was never replaced...
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MarkS Member
Posts: 700 From: Flemington, NJ Registered: Mar 2006
Apparently, early N* had a problem with the head bolt threads pulling out of the block when changing the head gaskets. I would definitely try to find out if that was remedied on the short*. On the other hand, if the engine is that inexpensive to get, buy it then try to take the heads off. If everything comes apart intact, buy the new gaskets at that point.
BR's,
Mark
------------------ 86 SE V6 4 speed 86 SE V6 Auto 2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe 2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous 2001 Olds Silhouette (AKA The Band Van)
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ericjon262 Member
Posts: 3136 From: everywhere. Registered: Jan 2010
It really is, but he isn't wrong either... I will never argue against the fact that a forced induction 3800 is the most cost effective swap in existence.
That said, I wouldn't spend any amount of money to put one in my car either. I prefer unique swaps, the Short * LX5, 3500 LX9, 3900 or Ecotec are just much more interesting to me. I happen to like the 3500 LX9 because it is the last of the standard push-rod 60* V6 engine family that the 2.8 gave birth to back in 1980...
The LX5 is interesting because it should be stronger than the 3.4 TDC, but no one has tested it. Most likely because of the stock ECM being used unmodified on exisiting swaps, like Rickady88GT's. It was a clean sheet block built up in the same fashion as the rest of the Northstar family, but not a direct derivative of the V8 engines, different bore centers, etc... It uses timing chains, which should make it more reliable than the 3.4 and it makes a squeak more power at 215/235 vs. 210/215... it is a 90* degree V6 but it uses the same trick as the 3800's split pin crank to spoof even fire.
Every engine has weaknesses, some are easily fixed or only present themselves in poor operating conditions, but if you search any vehicle, the engine is always crap. That's why the W-bodies with the 3.4 TDC in the junk yard around here have 150-175k miles on them... And looking at the engine bay, you can tell that timing belt was never replaced...
Not disagreeing, but everyone knows that. this thread wasn't started about 3800's it was about short*'s
Not disagreeing, but everyone knows that. this thread wasn't started about 3800's it was about short*'s
Yup... that's why the rest of my post wasn't about him being right...
quote
Originally posted by MarkS:
Apparently, early N* had a problem with the head bolt threads pulling out of the block when changing the head gaskets. I would definitely try to find out if that was remedied on the short*. On the other hand, if the engine is that inexpensive to get, buy it then try to take the heads off. If everything comes apart intact, buy the new gaskets at that point.
BR's, Mark
As far as pulling the threads on the head bolts, there is a documented procedure for that repair, it isn't real cheap and it isn't that easy, but it has been done by many people successfully and really depends on how much you love your engine. It's not like replacing head gaskets is regular maintenance... don't over heat and you'll probably never have a reason to even look at the head bolts... why would you ever do it just to see if the threads will fail??
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10:39 AM
MarkS Member
Posts: 700 From: Flemington, NJ Registered: Mar 2006
As far as pulling the threads on the head bolts, there is a documented procedure for that repair, it isn't real cheap and it isn't that easy, but it has been done by many people successfully and really depends on how much you love your engine. It's not like replacing head gaskets is regular maintenance... don't over heat and you'll probably never have a reason to even look at the head bolts... why would you ever do it just to see if the threads will fail??
The short* may not even suffer from the headbolt problem, don't know. Didn't see the head bolts mentioned prior and the OP should look into it. However, a complex inexpensive hi-mile engine should give you pause before doing all the work swapping the engine in place and the head gaskets are a potential issue. My point, if you are going to reseal the engine, disassmble before buying more stuff, might not like what you find. 'course, if you can see it run before hand, like if it were still in a rear end wreck, might give you more confidence. Also, as others have pointed out, if the engine is still in an otherwise intact car, stay away.
BR's,
Mark
------------------ 86 SE V6 4 speed 86 SE V6 Auto 2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe 2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous 2001 Olds Silhouette (AKA The Band Van)
Originally posted by Niterrorz: that looks amasing and it fills out the engine bay very nicely. i would love to see a swap thread on this.
As much as I'd like to, it aint happening. Seller was damned near impossible to get ahold of. The one time I did manage to, I found it had higher milage than I was hoping for. Told her I'd call back and never got ahold of her again. (Whats the point of posting something for sale if you're not going to answer either emails or the phone number you post?)
I will never argue against the fact that a forced induction 3800 is the most cost effective swap in existence.
