1986 GT 2.8 auto

Does California emissions testing actually enforce a required warm idle speed on this car? If so, does anybody know what the limits are? Has anybody ever been failed for the idle speed?

I'm fighting with a stumbling idle and need to go through California emissions. The discussion about what's wrong with the car is another thread.
I can burn chips and at this point I'm thinking about using a chip to raise the warm idle speed. I'm hoping it will help prevent it from stumbling as badly as it currently does. It also helps keep the catalyst hot.

If I raise idle to 1000rpm, 1100rpm, or even 1500rpm, will that be an automatic fail?

edit: I would talk with a Smog Tech or call BAR , to check if high idle speed would cause the car to fail.

From my Smog Check last month, I do not see any listing for the car's idle speed.

The tests for emissons in my area ( LA - Orange county Metro ) are done on the Dyno rollers at 15 MPH and 25 MPH.

Other tests would include a check of the engine timing, the Fuel Evaporative system, along with a visual check for emission control devices.

Some shops will perform a pre-test, to check the car if it may have problems in passing, get repairs and then run a test.

[This message has been edited by StockGT (edited 06-08-2012).]

yes I'm guess'n here,, but if we had a idle speed requirement for the test to even start..
the cali nazi's surely do.. as our test is the cali test.. or was.. now cars build before obII are not tested for emmissions.. unless it is smoking.. then it's a fail no matter the year..

What StockGT said is my experience also. If the chip change affects the emissions as well as the
idle speed, that might be a problem.

I think for your area you have the basic check. Emissions are tested at idle less than 1100 rpms, and high idle approx 2500 rpms. I just smogged both of my Fieros a stock 2.8 and a sbcluckly they passed this time.

Thanks for the replies.
I talked to the local smog tech today and he told me it has to idle below 1000rpm in neutral.
He saw the car but didn't ask any specifics about it, either he just happens to know the rule for this type/era of car or it's the same rule for everything. He seemed to have a pretty good clue about the car, he suggested the factory idle was 850rpm and that it runs 950rpm when checking timing (he was only off by 50 on each, it's actually 900/1000).

quote fieroboomer Emissions are tested at idle less than 1100 rpms, and high idle approx 2500 rpms.

Are you sure about the 1100rpm figure? If so maybe the tech I talked to got it wrong. In any case, my idle is too unstable to meet either limit. Every time it stumbles it recovers to about 1200. I'll have to find another solution which doesn't increase the targeted idle.

The only way I've found to stabilize the low idle is to make it run more rich than the ECM seems to want. That's going to be tricky to do without going too far. I do have a new catalyst so hopefully that gives me some leeway.
If only I lived in an urban "enhanced" area and not the boonies, it would be tested in gear and the idle problem wouldn't matter. If it wasn't so frustrating I'd find that funny.

[This message has been edited by armos (edited 06-08-2012).]

I am pretty sure 1100 is the low speed limit. Check this link to the BAR web site
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov...s_table-Jan_2007.pdf

It's been awhile since I lived in Ca. but when I did my Nissan pick-up did fail for idle speed. The idle speed was over 1000 rpm and I was told it had to be under. That was back in the early 90's when that happened so I'm sure by now it's probably gotten worse. What the exact limits are now I'm not sure, but I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that they still have one and you can still fail for it.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 06-09-2012).]

I can think of two things off the top of my head that would give you higher than normal idle.

1. Vacuum leak

2. Timing is set wrong.

cracked egr tube

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I can think of two things off the top of my head that would give you higher than normal idle. 1. Vacuum leak 2. Timing is set wrong.

Another possibility is improper vacuum routing. Mine had 2 ports on the TB swapped and it idled high. Once I got those 2 straightened out my Fiero idle went down to normal.

quote Originally posted by fieroboomer: I am pretty sure 1100 is the low speed limit. Check this link to the BAR web site http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov...s_table-Jan_2007.pdf

Interesting, thanks for the link. Hopefully it's still 1100, at least that's a little more room.

The EGR could be stuck open or partly open.

To clarify, my idle was bouncing between 600-1200rpm, it wasn't generally high, but hunting. If it went over 1100rpm the idle test would cancel.
The workaround was to retard timing at the chip. That stopped the hunting idle and got me through the test. I don't know what the real cause was, but it's the only way I could find to gloss over the problem so it would stay in the testable range. The tailpipe results were excellent.

I noticed the HC limit on my sheet (120ppm) matches that chart which was linked by fieroboomer. So I agree that chart is current and 1100rpm is the real idle speed limit.
10 years ago I had a 4cyl tested in an enhanced area on a dyno, and the limit was 220ppm. Now the limit on the easier test is 120ppm, and enhanced is something like 90 or so. They keep tightening the screws.

Interesting that the limits on a "two speed idle" test are based simply on vehicle type (passenger car) and model year. If you have a dyno test then the limits are more distinct to each vehicle.

Where abouts in cali are you? On the fiero in my county the limit is 1200. I had the idle hunt for a while and i changed everything and found out that if i tapped my tps the idle would freak out. Once i changed it i had a rock solid 900 which is ideal for a manual. Id start checking things and make sure all is in good order. Maybe try winaldl and see if theres a sensor causing it.

See if you can find someone with a scanner. I bought one, and it has paid for itself by narrowing down problems instead of having me replace s*** until the problem gets fixed.

quote Originally posted by outlawfiero17: Where abouts in cali are you? On the fiero in my county the limit is 1200. I had the idle hunt for a while and i changed everything and found out that if i tapped my tps the idle would freak out. Once i changed it i had a rock solid 900 which is ideal for a manual. Id start checking things and make sure all is in good order. Maybe try winaldl and see if theres a sensor causing it.

I'm in Placer. I've checked so many things I'm just about mentally and financially fatigued with it. Now that it's passed emissions I may just forget about it for a while.
I replaced the TPS early on just because it was old and I wasn't completely convinced it was operating smoothly on a multimeter. Rockauto had some on clearance so it was a cheap thing to try, but it didn't do any good.
I have some aldl logs in the other thread. Couldn't find any sensors that appeared to be goofy.

In the end what I have is a car that drives better than when I started, and has a fresh exhaust system, but the hunting idle I originally set out to fix is still there. At least I now know a way around it if I still have the problem in 2 years.

[This message has been edited by armos (edited 06-13-2012).]