Alright so today I was on my way to go pick up some
Evercoat adhesive/filler for the decklid, on my way going
up a hill towardsa overpass, and go to shift into
second.

Nothing.

I pump the clutch in neutral like a madman, since I'm in
traffic, still nothing. Eventually muscle it into 3rd(
) and have to redline to even get it going to get off the
road, onto a side street. I turn off the engine, wait a
bit, turn it back on. Shifts perfectly fine, I head home.
But I hit another hill, same thing happens.

I'm thinking it's related to my previous problems where
my clutch won't dis-engage, perhaps a large air bubble?

Any help would be great, I have next to no knowledge of anything mechanical in terms of cars, but would love to learn.

Also, before this started happening it was a bit difficult to shift into first, sort of have to force it in. Have the occasional grinding going into reverse. So I've got a bit of money to play with, I'm thinking of bleeding and re-filling all the fluid lines associated with the clutch, rebuild my 5sp getrag, and maybe get new slave and master cylinder?

I'd love to have it shift nice and smooth!

Probably still air in you hydraulics....works okay cold, but once it heats up and the oil gets thinner it just cant quite move the slave enough...Make sure your heat shield is still in place too. It is a common issue though.

Glad you found the Evercoat, sorry you didnt get there

We've all been there (unless we were smart enough to find an automatic in good condition). Fresh fluid never hurt--it should look almost clear in the resevoir. If the master isn't leaking, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I bought one of Rodney Dickman's double-seal slave cylinders, and it makes a big difference. If you're getting an inch or less throw on the slave cylinder rod, you probably have air in the system, or maybe a bent clutch pedal. I'd start by bleeding the system, especially the slave cylinder. I like V8 Archie's method, but I've seen a lot of different methods in this forum that seem effective. Good luck! I feel your pain.

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tucsonsean

Thanks, I was pretty freaked out when it happened.

In terms of getting that smooth, like - "new" feel, would a shift rebuild kit, and new slave cylinder, master cylinder and fluids give me that?

if you get Rodneys parts....yes, if you get parts store chinese stuff,,,,maybe

If you want really 'like new,' you probably need new shift cables as well. I don't know, I'm okay living with the slop of a 27-year-old shift mechanism--as long as it goes in and out of the gears I select with a minimum of effort and no noise.

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tucsonsean

I was planning on Rodney everything

Well, when I first got it 3 months ago, the shifter was quite hard to get into first. While I didn't have to push execcisvely hard, it had a noticeable difficulty and would clank into spot. Same with second, though alot easier. 3rd, 4th and 5th are very smooth.

Getrag Select Arm Rebuild Kit

5 Speed Shifter Rebuild Kits

V-6 5 Speed Getrag Aluminum Slave Cylinders

Slave Cylinder Bleeder Tool


I'm thinking about ordering these parts, bleeding the
system/installing them.

Will this fix my problem if there is low fluid/bubbles?

Also I checked my brake pedal again today, it looks lower
than normal, definitely not an inch above the gas.

The bad news? It's a bad system. The good news? It's all ultimately ruled by the laws of physics. I kept telling myself that during the five week ordeal of getting my '85 2m4 to perform without talking back or refusing to shift. If all the parts are in working order, the fluid fresh and air-free, nothing's leaking, and the planets are in alignment, you should one day reach that nirvana where you start your Fiero and proceed to drive without that feeling of dread when the clutch goes in and you move the shifter....

It's worth the ordeal, and, as they say, whatever doesn't kill you....

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tucsonsean

I was having terrible shifting issues on my 87. I ended up getting a new master and a slave rebuild kit from Rodney. I recommend the rebuild kit for the slave as opposed to buying a new one. By the time you're done rebuilding it (which is verrrrrrrry easy), you pretty much have a new slave anyway. These new parts and bleeding the heck out of the master AND the slave completely fixed my issues. Does it shift as well as a brand new car? No, but it's about 1,000 times better than what I was dealing with previously. Only slight issue I have with it now is I have to be going pretty darn slow to get into first, like maybe 2 MPH. Not a very big deal since I'm usually stopped by the time I want first gear anyway but whatever.

EDIT TO ADD: As an example of how easy it shifts now, from 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th, I can shift it with just my fingers with my shortened shifter....maybe a bit of wrist movement, but not much.

[This message has been edited by fastblack (edited 05-19-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Stevenr: Also, before this started happening it was a bit difficult to shift into first, sort of have to force it in. Have the occasional grinding going into reverse.

Reverse doesn't have a synchronizer, so unless the transmission input shaft is stopped, it will grind a little to get it into gear. In a normal condition with the clutch pedal depressed and the car in neutral, the clutch disk still gets spun by the very light friction from the engine and pressure plate in such close proximity to it. This makes it grind going into reverse. Most of the time you can elimate the grinding going into reverse by pushing in and letting out the clutch pedal just before selecting reverse or you can also throw it in third (with the clutch in) for a few seconds. That usually stops the input shaft from spinning.

A brief review on the syncronizer if you dont know what it is or does. A synchronizer typically consists of an inner-splined hub, an outer sleeve, shifter plates, lock rings (or springs) and blocking rings. The hub is splined onto the mainshaft between a pair of main drive gears. Held in place by the lock rings, the shifter plates position the sleeve over the hub while also holding the floating blocking rings in proper alignment. A synchro's inner hub and sleeve are made of steel, but the blocking ring -- the part of the synchro that rubs on the gear to change its speed -- is usually made of a softer material, such as brass. The blocking ring has teeth that match the teeth on the dog clutch. Most synchros perform double duty -- they push the synchro in one direction and lock one gear to the mainshaft. Push the synchro the other way and it disengages from the first gear, passes through a neutral position, and engages a gear on the other side.


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1988 Pontiac Fiero Gt (fully optioned, factory leather, 5-speed, CJB T-Tops: Black w/ gray interior and blk wheels)
1992 GMC Typhoon #0203
1971Chevorlet Corvette 454cu/ LS5/ 4-speed/ convertible
1993 BMW 850 Ci 6-speed V-12

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 05-19-2012).]

Well by grinding I mean; "I think my car is going to explode and my transmission is about to destroy itself" sort of grinding. The only time I've ever heard this sound was when I first started to learn and forgot to shift properly, etc.

There's no way it's a "normal" sound.


What fluid do I use to top of the clutch fluid, brake?

Yes, brake fluid for the clutch system.

I had the same problems with my 88GT. I had put brand new aftermarket master and slave cylinders on, and they never worked right. Not long after, I had grinding gears. The master cylinder started leaking pretty quickly from the seal, dumping fluid on the carpet. The seals on this aftermarket parts SUCK. They failed quickly.

I replaced the master (after less than a year) with a Rodney Dickman part. Problem solved there, but shifting still was crappy. I finally replaced the slave with Rodney's part, and the thing shifts like a new car. Smooth as silk, no leaks, no problems.

One caution - if you are using Rodney's parts to rebuild stuff that isn't from him, I'd be concerned that the interior surface of other part could have imperfections that might let fluid pass, or scratch up the seals. I'd just get new stuff from Rodney. I trust his parts to last. I don't trust the aftermarket crap that you get a O'Reilly or elsewhere.

Thanks for the advice.

A member of WestCoastFiero's here on the coast offered to help me bleed the system and refill all the fluids, so I'll start there. If that doesnt help, I'll order Rodney's parts.