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230 pound V8 300 WHP Push rod engine by engine man
Started on: 05-06-2012 08:41 PM
Replies: 87
Last post by: engine man on 05-22-2012 04:24 PM
engine man
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Report this Post05-06-2012 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
Back in the 60's Buick, Oldmobile & Pontiac had an all aluminum engine the 215 V8 and i have read that it's weight was 230 LBS and it made only 200 HP. but it was sold to Land Rover and they bored and stroked it out to 4.6 or 278 inches and i think about 250 HP not really supper high horspower but with some work it can be a real performer as seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDZHRun6h7c this is just food for thought

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-11-2012).]

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Report this Post05-06-2012 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for murrreySend a Private Message to murrreyDirect Link to This Post
that became standard equipment for rover and landrover for many years, i think even today, basic design is still used.
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Report this Post05-06-2012 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
the one thing i do know they did was go to cross bolted main bearing caps the heads are a bit weak in stock forum on flow but if the engine is really that light it would weigh less than the stock V6 by allot
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Report this Post05-06-2012 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tomsablonSend a Private Message to tomsablonDirect Link to This Post
with the battery in the front i wonder how close to 50/50 weight distrubution would be?
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Report this Post05-06-2012 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
Buick gave it up because it cost too much. Morgan put it into their plus -8. I don't see how it could be that much lighter than my ls4 though, and it for sure won't breath as good as my 243 heads.
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Report this Post05-06-2012 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
I believe that engine was installed in the Oldsmobile Jetfire. It was light but not durable.

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Report this Post05-06-2012 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkDirect Link to This Post
Back about '68 I had a Triump Spitfire I put a stock 215 into. However, before I got it running good I went into the service and along the way my dad gave the car away. I did buy another Triump in '70 that someone else put together. It too had the 215 in it and it was built to race at the drag strip. After I bought it I did what was needed to get it on the street and it was a great car for playing around with. It didn't corner worth a darn, but boy did it go in a straight line. It had about 300 HP in a 1530 lb car and when I drove it over to Seatle International Raceway I could pull 11.3's with it. It even was able to pull wheelies in just about every gear. It was a lot of fun and I wish I never got rid of it.
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Report this Post05-06-2012 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofan25Send a Private Message to fierofan25Direct Link to This Post
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Report this Post05-06-2012 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3084meSend a Private Message to 3084meDirect Link to This Post
You're a little off on the weight. They weighed 320lbs (Actually it was 318 "dry" to be exact). My dad had one when I was young in a 63 Olds. Pretty neat. I looked at one for a project many years ago but as mentioned, thought it was a bit "weak".

Buick called it the Fireball and Olds referred to it as the "Rockette" (Kind of like a little sister to the Rocket).,
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Report this Post05-07-2012 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

Back in the 60's Buick, Oldmobile & Pontiac had an all aluminum engine the 215 V8...


Old news. Everything you want here: http://www.aluminumv8.com/c...rsion/conversion.htm

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engine man
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Report this Post05-07-2012 03:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
ok even at 320 pounds thats like 30 or 40 pounds less than a 2.8 and the LS4 engines are like 450 all aluminum but the ls4 will bolt right up and make more power but the weight is worth hp to and a turbo can cure any thing lacking power jjust ask those 3800 guys lol
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Report this Post05-07-2012 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post

engine man

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I might have found a place that makes an adapter plate i will give a call and see what he is offering but it said adapter is for s10/ camaro V6 bellhousing so it kinda sounds to me like a 60 degree pattern http://www.aluminumv8.com/c...s/bellhousingetc.htm

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-07-2012).]

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Will
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Report this Post05-07-2012 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
320 lbs *might* be an assembled long block, BUT it won't be ready to run like that.

Now here is a 230 lbs V8 that will make 400+ HP...
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm

(although probably not even this engine is as light as 230 lbs...)

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-07-2012).]

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engine man
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Report this Post05-07-2012 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
yes will i am sure that is correct but the same holds true of the other engine weights on the list i was looking at so if a 2.8 V6 weight is 350 for a long block and the 4.6 is 320 for the long block it is lighter by 30 pounds . and the engine you are showing is super cool but at what price
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Report this Post05-07-2012 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
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engine man
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Report this Post05-07-2012 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
so it has been done and a nice job has been done by the installer
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engine man
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Report this Post05-07-2012 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post

engine man

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Archie could he have put coil overs on the back then cut the strut tower back or different length axles to move the engine to get the room needed if so i think that would have been easier

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-07-2012).]

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engine man
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Report this Post05-07-2012 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post

engine man

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I just found out a few things about the land rover 4.0 & 4.6 not only do they have cross bolted mains the front timming cover is like that of a 3800 with a crank driven oil pump and looks like DIS
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engine man
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Report this Post05-08-2012 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
Just for those who might want to know the 4.0 and 4.6 land rover did in fact use DIS ignition and the oil pump is crankcrank driven as on the 3800 and the block retained all its original dimensions there are cams for it even a set of aftermarket heads it seems these are a stout little engine with decent performance
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Report this Post05-08-2012 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3084me:

You're a little off on the weight. They weighed 320lbs (Actually it was 318 "dry" to be exact). My dad had one when I was young in a 63 Olds. Pretty neat. I looked at one for a project many years ago but as mentioned, thought it was a bit "weak".

Buick called it the Fireball and Olds referred to it as the "Rockette" (Kind of like a little sister to the Rocket).,


Didn't Olds offer a turbo 215?
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engine man
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Report this Post05-08-2012 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
yes they did
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Report this Post05-08-2012 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
the things i like about the rover 4.0 or 4.6 is it solves some problems the guy in the threads Archie provided with the front timing cover and they are stronger due to the cross bolted main bearing caps unlike the 215 2 bolt mains and the main bearing journal are bigger and you get more cubic inches with either the 4.0 or 4.6 .The Buick 300 aluminum heads will fit on and if ported correctly they will have enough air flow to make 425 HP NA

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-08-2012).]

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Report this Post05-09-2012 07:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroDirect Link to This Post
I have a jetfire turbo,intake and carb in my collection of parts. Sounds like you are serious about this swap. Maybe I won't be the only one with this swap.
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engine man
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Report this Post05-09-2012 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
well i am looking at it pretty strong and yes i would like to attempt it but i want to sell the 3.4 dohc crate engine i have or trade it for a 4.6 rover engine . you used a 215 and a automatic trans i would be attempting a standard transmission and i have read how you made your adapter so that helped me figuring out how to do that . so we will just have to wait and see if I do it but my 88 GT T TOP would like it
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Report this Post05-09-2012 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
The TDC is one of the easiest swaps around. If you can't get that done, then you're really not cut out to try anything harder.
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engine man
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Report this Post05-09-2012 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
yup Will the 3.4 TDC is a easy swap and I all ready did it once and i like the 3.4 TDC all right the car went good i just seem to want something different and it doesn't need to make gobs of power like DH or FieroX I am just looking for 250- 300 HP NA and light weight and this engines weight is close to that of a V6 and in fact it is a bit lighter

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-09-2012).]

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Report this Post05-09-2012 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
You can build a 3500 non-VVT to that level easily, and it will be more than 100 lbs lighter than the 3.4 TDC.
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Report this Post05-09-2012 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

You can build a 3500 non-VVT to that level easily, and it will be more than 100 lbs lighter than the 3.4 TDC.


Realy, I thought the TDC was about 50# heavyer. That is a monster set of heads.

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Report this Post05-09-2012 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
The TDC's a heavy engine... 4V heads, cam carriers on top, cams with full size journals than install from the end, enormous front cover casting to moutn the timing belt drive, etc.

Obviously your Shortstar was *MUCH* lighter...

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-09-2012).]

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Report this Post05-09-2012 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

The TDC's a heavy engine... 4V heads, cam carriers on top, cams with full size journals than install from the end, enormous front cover casting to moutn the timing belt drive, etc.

Obviously your Shortstar was *MUCH* lighter...



One of the GM selling points for the Short Star was that it was lighter than the 3800. But I just had no idea that the 3.4TDC was that much.
BTW I took the S* out and put in an LS4. The S* that I took out is now in my Intrigue. My Intrigue trans cooler line broke in the radiator and washed out the trans fluid and engine coolant. The conversion parts are in a box.

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Report this Post05-09-2012 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
ya 100 pound lighter then the 3.4 tdc is like 375 lbs and the rover engine is like 320 long block and i bet not much over 350 with every thing and who cares what the other engines are i am talking about the aluminum V8 Buick ,Olds & Pontiac had way back and sold to British Leyland Range Rover so if you want to build a 3500 go ahead but pleas don't come tell me what to do or ought to do .let every one build what they want and when they have a problem help them solve it

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-09-2012).]

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Report this Post05-10-2012 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Four_hundred_86Send a Private Message to Four_hundred_86Direct Link to This Post
I have driven a few of the land rovers with this engine they are very very torquey and make a good grunt and have a nice sound. the fact British leyland had anything to do with the design scares the hell out of me. anyone who thought positive grounds were a good idea scares me away. that being said Im all for the unique swaps. id take rare over super fast any time.
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Report this Post05-10-2012 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ghostwalkerSend a Private Message to ghostwalkerDirect Link to This Post
I heard G.M. got rid of it because they could not figure out how to get it to quit blowing head gaskets and so when Rover got it they O ringed the heads and block and that stopped it from blowing head gaskets.....

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Report this Post05-10-2012 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

ya 100 pound lighter then the 3.4 tdc is like 375 lbs and the rover engine is like 320 long block and i bet not much over 350 with every thing and who cares what the other engines are i am talking about the aluminum V8 Buick ,Olds & Pontiac had way back and sold to British Leyland Range Rover so if you want to build a 3500 go ahead but pleas don't come tell me what to do or ought to do .let every one build what they want and when they have a problem help them solve it



This is the same engine that was used in the TR8. Expensive to find ALL of the parts you need to replace or rebuild.

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Report this Post05-10-2012 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

From this thread ... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...02-2-105137.html#p10

"The bolt pattern on the back of the [BOP 215] engine is not the SBC pattern."



The BOP 215 is one of my all-time favorite engines. They were used in a lot of world-class sports racers in the middle 1960s ... until the relatively light cast-iron Ford 289 and its derivatives came to prominence. It's been almost 50 years, but in the first car I ever owned (a 1951 Riley 2.5 sedan) I removed a 305 SBC (mated to a Chevy 3-speed manual transmission) that a previous owner had installed and replaced it with a Buick 215 that I had already built up. I don't remember any problem matching the engine to the bell housing. Then again, maybe I used a 215 bell housing, which probably would have bolted right up to the Chevy transmission.

Now mating a Muncie (Corvette) 4-speed gearbox to a Jaguar 3.8 engine was a whole different can of worms ... but that's another story for another day.

As far as I remember the Buick and Pontiac versions of the 215 were identical, but the Olds 215 used different heads and had an additional head bolt per cylinder. (The Buick/Pontiac blocks had cast bosses for the Olds' extra head bolts, but they weren't drilled or tapped.) I don't remember there being any difference in bell housing bolt patterns.


 
quote
Originally posted by ghostwalker:

I heard G.M. got rid of it because they could not figure out how to get it to quit blowing head gaskets ...



I was running a 10.5:1 compression ratio in the 215 referenced above. It blew the composition head gaskets I originally used almost immediately, but the plain-vanilla steel shim gaskets I used the second time lasted for years. Strangely enough, I came across that car about 10 years ago and the 215 was still in it and reported to be still running well; I have no idea whether or not the head gaskets had ever needed to be replaced again.

I have no doubt that the 215 engines would have warped like crazy if badly overheated or run without coolant.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-10-2012).]

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Report this Post05-10-2012 01:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for weaselbeakSend a Private Message to weaselbeakDirect Link to This Post
Here is most of it, but I can also find other conflicting websites claiming a BOP bellhousing. From an Olds website. I noticed that the 3.8 is claimed to be a variant with a shared bolt pattern.

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Jetfire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

History
215 Engine
This car and engine grew out of the early '60's gas crunch. Up until this time, the American car market had consisted of big cars with big motors that used lots of gas.

In 1961, Olds (and Buick and Pontiac, referred to collectively as "The BOP Cars") came out with their new small cars (Olds F-85, Pontiac Tempest, Buick Special). Back in GM's experimental phase (prior to the invention of product liability lawyers), a single body shell was used to spin off three very different platforms. The basic body is is unibody construction. Available was a new, all aluminum V-8, displacing 215 cubic inches. This engine was standard in the Buick and Olds, optional in the Pontiac.

Olds and Buick used it to build the conventional front engine/rear drive Cutlass (Jetfire) and Skylark models. Chevy used this same shell to create the Corvair, with rear engine, transaxle, and air cooling. Pontiac took the middle ground with the Tempest, mounting the engine in the front but using the Corvair transaxle to build a precursor to the Porsche 928 and the C5 Corvette. With the exception of the 'Vair, the cars were available with the Pontiac slant 4 (195 cubic inches out of a four cylinder! Literally a 389 Poncho cut in half!), the Buick V6, or the aforementioned aluminum V8. Only Olds had the turbo (Jetfire) available.

The original motor was aluminum from Buick, it used cast iron sleeves. The Olds versions got their compression ratio from the heads, and Buick's from the pistons. Buick Special, Skylark, Olds Jetfire, F-85, and the '61, '62 Tempest used a version of the motor with one extra head bolt. It will still bolt to a later Rover block, but with one extra hole. They're rare though. Intakes are believed to interchange, though.

The 215 V8 doesn't share the BOP transmission bell housing pattern, but some strange, unique pattern. The starter bolts to the engine horizontally. Meaning the bolts thread horizontallty like on a Chrysler. Not Vertically like on an Olds. Also, there are no provisions for an adapter like a small block Chevy in a bus, with a large flywheel, and a horizontal starter pattern.

The 215 was powerful despite its small displacement. The strong motor in such a light body with independent suspension all around made the Special and F-85 one of the best cars in the early 1960's. The biggest barrier has been the brakes which were inadequate at the time, and are even more so today.

Examples had 3-speeds, 4-speeds (Borg-Warner I believe), a type of Powerglide that went into the Buick and Pontiac, and the Slim Jim Jetaway type in the '62 Jetfire. They also had 2-barrel and 4-barrel carbs (Rochester) for them as well as the huge 1-barrel side-draft on the turbo Olds version.

Factory rating for the turbo motor was 215 hp out of 215 cu in. The engine uses a unique bellhousing bolt pattern, so adapters are required to install something newer (available from D&D). The ordinary Buick's and F85's got a two speed powerglide unit.

A four speed was also available. My automatic is a 3 speed one. I believe that only the '63's actually had the 4-speeds although I've met someone who says he has a 4-speed '62. The 4-speeds were of the Corvette Borg Warner T-10's. The production of the '62's began in the middle of April & so that string was begun & stopped for the '63's very quickly.

Jetfire Engine
In 1961, the F-85 had a 155 HP version of the 215 ci. engine, and the Cutlass had a 185 HP version. The 1961 versions of the motor were rated at 155 hp, but later years saw increases - up to 200 hp normally aspirated for the Buick version and 215 hp in turbocharged form from Olds (the 62-63 Jetfire).

In 1962, Olds, along with AiResearch, introduced a 'turbocharged' (called Fluid Injection) version of this engine, which put "Turbo Rocket Fluid" (½ distilled water, ½ methyl alcohol) into the carb. Along with a 10.25:1 compression ratio, yielded 0-60 in 8.5 seconds (with the manual tranny). The turbo was a Garrett TO-3 with an integral wastegate, the first. Unfortunately, due to the 10:1 compression ratio, boost was limited to only 5 psi, not the best use of a turbo.

The induction setup itself is fairly sophisticated (especially for 1962), with something like 54 separate connections to the intake system. The turbo has an integral wastegate, being the first mass production turbo application to use a wastegate. The turbo has a large oil line running directly from the oil pump to keep oil present to the bearings. If they get hot (running hard) they must not be shut down without a cool down period. This was arguably the most complex induction system build to that time, with something like 50 different hose connections in the intake system (pressure sensors, wastegate, fluid injection, fuel, etc).

Olds attempted to get around the boost lag problem by using a high compression ratio (10:1!), which limited boost to only 5 psi. Fluid injection (Turbo Rocket Fluid) was used (a water/alcohol mix) to suppress detonation. Properly running cars will not go into boost if the "Turbo Rocket Fluid" resevoire is empty. There is an automatic shutoff for this. Parts for this injection system are even harder to get than the turbo parts.

The carb is a rare single barrel Rochester side-draft unit, whose only other application was on the Corvair Turbo. While they resemble the Corvair carb, they are much larger. They share some parts with an ordinary 2-barrel V-8 Rochester such as floats, needles & seats, etc.

The Olds' turbocharged Jetfire was supposedly quicker than the 4V version, but it had maintenance problems due to its complex mechanics for that era. It attained the magic goal of 1 HP per CID. A power boost on the order of 40% was claimed. The automatic Cutlass with 10.75:1 compression gave 195 HP @ 4800 and 235 lb/ft @ 3200. The Jetfire's 10.25:1 compression gave 215 HP @ 4800 and 300 lb/ft @ 3200.

Top speed for a 4V was just over 100 mph, but 0-60 took almost 11 seconds with automatic, although the stick did better. The biggest problem with the Special/F-85 was the 3-speed "slushbox" transmission. Which, according to a Motor Trend road test, "seemed to take forever for the Hydra-Matic to get a good, firm lockup into the next gear, and the engine lost 2,000 rpm on each shift."

Oldsmobile scrapped this system in 1964 due to reliability problems. The 'performance Olds' then became the 442 in '64.

Rover, Buick 300, 3.8, etc
Not long after the motor was put into production, gas became plentiful again. You all remember the late '60's, early '70's, "Why build a 215 when you can build a 455?" It was the dawning of the age of muscle cars.

At this same time, across the pond, the British were just beginning to turn away from the famous 4 cylinders. They were selling off their designs and tooling, left and right, to the Japanese. The only new motors that British car companies seemed to have produced, though, were those HEAVY I-6 motors. They attempted a V-8 with the Triumph Stag, but due to poor design, the motor was plagued by mechanical failure (a Triumph having mechanical trouble, never!)

GM, still having fun with the 330, 425, 455, etc. decided that it had no use for the 215 design, and therefore, sold the design, tooling and manufacturing rights for the motor to the very willing British Leyland company (Rover/Jaguar/Triumph). It has evolved into the 3.5, 3.9, and 4.2 liter engines in various British cars (Land Rover, Rover 3500, TVR, TR8, +8, etc.) The engine is a direct fit in the MG, as it was offered in the early 1970s, as the MGC (ie, next after the MGB). The full-up engine (carb-to-oil pan) weighs about 305 lbs.

The 215 was redesigned from an investment casting to a sand cast aluminum block making it slightly heavier, but it is said to be less prone to cracking, and better at vibration dampening. Basic dimensions remained the same: bore, stroke, bearing sizes, distance between bores, etc. 215 manifolds still fit the 3.5l blocks as do all of the original 215 aftermarket upgrades.

Buick, having had given up the 215, recast the block as a cast iron version: the Buick 300. Slightly taller and larger bore, but the same bore to bore and bearing placement. This engine was equipped with a 3.4" stroke crank that had larger bearings and a different rear seal assembly. This makes the crank a ½ inch or inch longer out the back side and the flywheel bolt pattern different.

About this time, Buick, wanting smaller and more fuel efficient cars, decided that they needed a new powerplant. They wanted something light, so they went back to those same 215 bore dimensions. They made it a V-6 in 198 cu in form. This original V-6 was optional in the Jetfire. Later, from this original V-6, Buick 232 was born. The front covers of these motors will still mate up with the old 215's and the Rover blocks.

The Buick 3.8L V-6 is a variant and can supply bell housings, water pumps, and various other common block parts for the 215. There are some small differences between the Buick 215 and the Rover 3.5l in many aspects of the design.

Front Cover/Oil Pump: Don't know as much about the 215's front cover, but I've had plenty of experience with the V-6's. The way Buick made these front covers/oil pumps does make it easy to increase the volume and/or pressure of the oil pump. The one detractor in this case, however, is that it is aluminum and aluminum gouges fairly easily. One often-bought service part is a "wear plate" to make up for the grooving the steel gears will do to the aluminum lower oil pump cover. Another is a high-volume kit that gives you longer gears and a spacer plate to make up the difference. Also packaged with the kit is a selection of pressure relief springs to tailor the pressure of the pump; however, this engine still has scary oil pressure, but I drive it daily and it runs just fine.

Another thing you can salvage-yard find are all sorts of oil filter mounts (it's the same piece as the lower oil pump cover) to either change the type of filter you use (I moved up from the 2-ounce capacity Starfire filter to one for a Buick wagon) or even the angle the filter mounts on the engine, in case you have clearance problems.

Another nice part is the Edelbrock intake manifold, they list it as a Rover part, I believe.

[ Thanks to Ken Snyder, others for this information. ]
Buildups
Normally aspirated versions of the motor are still somewhat available, and there are a couple of shops which specialize in the motors (D&D in Michigan is the one that advertises in Hemmings every month). Parts are available to bump displacement out from the original 3.5 liters to 5.0.

The hot setup to use in this case is to swap the heads for those on a 1964 Buick 300, which is the same basic engine with a cast iron block and a displacement bump. The 300 heads are still aluminum, however, and will bolt to the 215 block. It is possible to drop the crank and heads from the 300 onto a 215 short block and get a 5.0 liter all aluminum V-8 that weighs about 310 lbs fully dressed.

The basic block was fitted with DOHC 4-valve heads and turned into an F1 racing engine by Repco of Australia in the early 60s. Mickey Thompson also ran one at Indy in the early 60s. Mickey Thompson used the 215 block along with his own forged crank and aluminum pistons to make an off road race engine. The crank was 3.5" stroke, quite a bit larger than the 2.8" stock one still used to power the Rover 215. This brought the CID up to 250 and it had a higher lift, higher rev cam, as well as Mallory Dual point ignition.

Another interesting bit of trivia is that the 1964 Buick 300 is actually a cast iron version of this motor with aluminum heads - in fact these 1964 heads have larger ports and valves and will bolt to a 215.

Many articles have been written on installing this crank into the 215 case to get the 215's light package with the increased stroke and displacement of the 300's crank. It does, however, require engine rear seal machining, crank grinding, and some funny business to get a manual tranny to bolt up.

They can be bored as high as 60 thousandths without going through the steel cylinder liners. Piston's and rings were available a while ago. Alan Friedrich

Just when you thought that nothing else could be done to this poor block, Volvo (yes family sedan/wagon people) valves, it was discovered, would fit into the 310 aluminum heads to increase flow. Also, Chevy Carrera rods (300, 310, 340) were quite a bit stronger than any of the others. Stronger than even M. Thompson's box welded rods.

A side note, The 310 is also sometimes referred to as the 340. Back then, Buick often put the largest number from among CID, torque or horsepower on the air cleaner. The 310 engine generated 340 pounds/foot of torque. That's how you end up with people referring to the 401 nailhead as a 445, or the 425ci as the 465, since those were the numbers on the original air cleaners. Just something to know when looking for compatible parts.

In Britian, some 215s have been bored and stroked to an amazing 4.5 to 5.0 liters through the use of the factory crank from a diesel Rover (known as the Tundra something or other). Now then, does this not sound fun to you, an Olds F-85, with the aluminum Rover 3.5 liter block, bored to 3.8 liters, stroked from 2.8" to 3.5" using a Mickey Thompson crank, Big aluminum head via Buick 300 etc. Volvo oversize valves, a 3.8 liter front case w/HEI ignition and still able to hang a serpentine belt with all accessories on it, and bolted up to a Borg/Warner 5 speed tranny?

Production
1962: 3,765 1963: 5,842

They are very nice cars but are traditional sloppy handlers of the early sixties with so-so brakes. The body size and proportions is much like the early Mustang with better room inside.

All Jetfires included standard Cutlass equipment (bucket seats, console, deluxe appointments in trim) and is a unique hardtop made from a convertible. All other 2 dr F85's were coupes in '62 and probably all of '63. Buick went to a hardtop for the late '62 Skylark and continued into '63. Pontiac never had a hardtop those 2 years and neither did Corvair.

Aftermarket
The 215 CID is alive and well with its own support structure. D&D Performance in Romulus, MI sells kits and engine parts. Anybody who is interested in 215's should contact Dan LaGrou for parts. D&D sells adapters to mate later Hydramatic transmisions to the 215, if you rework the floor to make room for the larger cases.

D&D FABRICATIONS
810-798-2491
8005 Tiffany
Almont, MI 48003

There's also a guy in Utah who sells kits to swap the motor into early RX-7s. There is a lot of early 60s parts for these motors out at the swap meets, like Weber manifolds, valve covers, etc.

There are 2 books available on the Rover (and therefore the Buick and Oldsmobile 215 V-8's), The Rover V-8 Engine and Tuning Rover V-8 Engines (tuning is the British word for buildup). Both are available from:

Haynes Publications Inc.
861 Lawrence Drive
Newbury Park, CA 91320

The 215 weighs only 20 lbs more than the Vega 4 cylinder, so the car still goes around corners (try that with your small block Chevy). The 215 is an awsome engine for its size and weight. A full-up 4bbl version weighs only 305 lbs wet. Parts are available, as described above, to bore and stroke it to 5.0 liters!

The main problem is that the 215 uses a unique transmission bolt pattern, which is unlike than on any other GM engine. Assuming that your car has an automatic, any engine swap will require a matching transmission as well. This is not the case with the 4-spd, where you will only require the correct bellhousing.

[ Thanks to Jeff Hunter, Dan Gulino, Joe Padavano, Bill Culp, Bob Barry, Clayton Pierce, Kurt Horton, Richard Biebrich for this information ]
Special Maintenence / Problem Areas
Coolant System
I was just reading an article about the 215 V-8 and it said that aluminum from the block and heads would eventually make it's way into the coolant and experience an electrolytic reaction with the copper in the rad, causing the rad to clog and leading to overheating. How's your rad look?

[ Thanks to Greg Beaulieu for this information ]
Turbo-Rocket Fluid Tank
There's a tech tip about it in this month's JWO. Apparently the Turbo-Rocket Fluid tank in Jetfires was under pressure when the motor what shut off and Fluid would seep through the metering valves overnight and enter the combustion chambers. This "could cause a hydrostatic lock to occur which could bend a connecting rod" but still allow the motor to start. Speeds in excess of 45 would cause the bent rod to break and distroy the engine. Olds offered an external de-pressure valve modification kit to fix the problem, but according to a Service Guild article from late '64, some of these de-pressure valves were defective.

A simpler solution was to crack the cap on the tank after turning off the motor.

[This message has been edited by weaselbeak (edited 05-10-2012).]

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engine man
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Report this Post05-10-2012 02:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
Wow now thats some info ! well when i get back up i will know if i got a deal with the local wrecing yard on a 99 4.0 land rover version of this engine
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Report this Post05-10-2012 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroDirect Link to This Post
Mine weighed 324 pounds comeplete-manifolds,turbos,ect. Good write up Weaselbeak.
Marc
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Will
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Report this Post05-10-2012 01:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

ya 100 pound lighter then the 3.4 tdc is like 375 lbs and the rover engine is like 320 long block and i bet not much over 350 with every thing and who cares what the other engines are i am talking about the aluminum V8 Buick ,Olds & Pontiac had way back and sold to British Leyland Range Rover so if you want to build a 3500 go ahead but pleas don't come tell me what to do or ought to do .let every one build what they want and when they have a problem help them solve it



Lol... Ok...

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Report this Post05-10-2012 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
Oh no arent we funny Will Mr 6 year Engine Build and you realy dint do anything special but spew a bunch of BS https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000121.html

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-10-2012).]

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