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Bolt-on horsepower for a Duke? by tucsonsean
Started on: 04-26-2012 12:25 AM
Replies: 55
Last post by: Stainless1911 on 05-05-2012 11:23 AM
Patrick
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Report this Post04-27-2012 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

Any thoughts what can be done to my 2.5 to restore back some power and MPG?



If your Fiero still has it's original catalytic converter on it, and if it's starting to break up and plug up, a new free-flowing cat (or no cat) will certainly bring back some power.
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cebix
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Report this Post04-27-2012 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixDirect Link to This Post
Yeah I figured that's a major issue. It still has an original cat. I've been planning to get rid of that for a year now. I guess I should stop posting until I get that done.
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2.5
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Report this Post04-27-2012 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

Yeah and about the notchie vs fastback... Am I the only person in the world that doesn't like the fastbacks?
..
Any thoughts what can be done to my 2.5 to restore back some power and MPG? I did a whole service when I bought it - spark plugs, wires, new cap, rotor, coil. The oil in it was a mess. The oil was pretty much rubber under the valve cover so I guess there's some stuff inside I don't want to see. Is it a good idea to take it apart without any replacement parts like piston rings etc., clean it up and put it back together? Or should I just rebuild it when I'm at it?

Oh and I put it a K&N air filter. No noticable difference but at least it should last forever.



You're not the only one. We all have our faves. I'd start another thread about your power issues just to get the focus on your car. In that thread mention if there are any check engine lights, smoke, or how much oil you add between changes, your mpgs, etc. I wouldn't take anything apart without plans to replace parts or more specific problem diagnosis.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-27-2012).]

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TopNotch
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Report this Post04-27-2012 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchDirect Link to This Post
I'm loving my duke more every day. It just seems to keep getting better as it gets thoroughly broken in, and I work out little bugs (like the weak fuel pump I replaced recently).
Links about it here, and here.
Not bolt-on, though. It takes a little work to make a duke run.
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cebix
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Report this Post04-27-2012 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


You're not the only one. We all have our faves. I'd start another thread about your power issues just to get the focus on your car. In that thread mention if there are any check engine lights, smoke, or how much oil you add between changes, your mpgs, etc. I wouldn't take anything apart without plans to replace parts or more specific problem diagnosis.



Yeah I'll start a thread when I get rid of the cat. Till then no more power concerning posts from me.

Topnotch, I've seen your threads some time ago. That's some great work. I guess the old Duke gets some love afterall.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 04-27-2012).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post04-27-2012 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
You might want to try an MSD -6 ignition box to boost the spark. Its easy to install , gives very hot multiple sparks from idle to 3000 RPM and a stronger single spark to each cylinder above that. It should make some difference but you will need to change to spiral core wire as the greater spark power will eat up carbon core wires in short order.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Khw
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Report this Post04-27-2012 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

Yeah and about the notchie vs fastback... Am I the only person in the world that doesn't like the fastbacks? I just think the notchie has an original line to it and looks very american to me. The fastback looks like a Ferrari wannabe to me. I don't want to upset anybody who owns a fastback but just wanted to add my humble opinion... and hopefully not derail the thread.Oh and I put it a K&N air filter. No noticable difference but at least it should last forever.



I prefer the notchback also, but that's just me. When I was you nger and the Fiero first came out I loved it. When the fastback came out, I WANTED ONE BAD! Now that I'm older I find I'm more drawn to the look of the notchback. It's like my parents (someday mine as it's been left to me in their will) 89 convertible Camaro. I like the look of the back half of it alot more then a fastback Camaro. Something about the way the back window drops down quickly with a long relatively flat rear deck just looks good to me.
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mferrell
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Report this Post04-28-2012 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mferrellSend a Private Message to mferrellDirect Link to This Post
I also prefer the notchback. the fastback just looks too much like all the ricers running around today, albeit it was here first. the notchie just has more of a distinct look. but that is why they make different cars, is that we dont all have the same taste. And more power to you(pun intended) for getting more out of your 2.5. I also am trying to keep my 84SE 2.5 4 speed as close to original as I can.
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tucsonsean
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Report this Post04-29-2012 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tucsonseanSend a Private Message to tucsonseanDirect Link to This Post
I agree. To me, the fastback looks too much like an MR2--or vice versa. The notchback doesn't look like anything else on the road--except the Triumph TR-7, which pre-dated the Fiero; but I doubt very many of them are still on the road. A truly PROBLEM car.

BTW, I just got back from a drive in my bright yellow (an '88 color) black diamond-spoked wheel (also '88) '85 notchback coupe. I'm still gonna look for the Holley intake and TBI and some headers, but I can live with the ol' Duke. I didn't get anywhere fast today, but I looked good poking along, stylin' in my 'no-go showboat.' (apologies to the Beach Boys)

------------------
tucsonsean

[This message has been edited by tucsonsean (edited 04-29-2012).]

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tucsonsean
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Report this Post04-29-2012 01:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tucsonseanSend a Private Message to tucsonseanDirect Link to This Post

tucsonsean

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This could be a good final word. It's from http://myfiero.com/how-to/e...duke-performance-faq

"We can debate this until the cows come home….. but unless you go the SD route you ain’t gonna make a significant difference in the overall performance of street driven Dukes with add-ons (been there – done that). If you are successful in cranking out significantly more HP, the lower end will not last much longer. Experience has taught me (and others) that when you start consistently pushing a Duke over 5,000 rpm it is going to self destruct. It ain’t a matter of “If”, it is when. Do you ever wonder why the early 2.5 turbo kits died off so quickly? It wasn’t the introduction of the V6 – they were a prescription for a broken crank or pitched rod.

Still, there are some things you can do to a Duke to improve performance that are simple, cheap, don’t compromise reliability and should be done anyway. Sadly, they are often overlooked or ignored. It has been at least 5-6 years since I put this on the list, but it is still valid. If you have previously done these, GREAT! If not, try it – you’ll like it. (You will also get better gas mileage)

1. Replace the fuel filter. Do this every other oil change or 6,000 miles. Restricted fuel filters lower fuel pressure. Lower fuel pressure translates to a drop in performance. This is often overlooked and is true for the 2.8 as well.
2. If you still have the stock converter, replace it with a new high flow unit. Gains will be noticeable as the original L4 brick catalyst is very restrictive.
3. Drop in a K&N air filter – or at least a new paper one.
4. Pop in a new oxygen sensor
5. Change to synthetic oil
6. On 84-86 Dukes, bolt on a performance coil and a new set of lower resistance plug wires.
7. Install a fresh set of spark plugs – NEVER put Bosch Platinum plugs in a DIS car (87 & 88) If you have not added a higher voltage coil and wires, close the gap .005 less than specified. “Trick” plugs (Splitfire, etc.) are OK, but a waste of money as far as performance gains. A set of new steel electrode AC plugs will do just fine.
8. Bolt up the dual outlet muffler and pipes from a 85-87 V6. There are tons in the junk yard for little or noting. Don’t expect a great performance improvement, even if there is one less chamber in the V6 muffler, but it looks and sounds better.
9. Run maximum allowable air pressure in your tires and avoid those tall fat ones – especially on the back. They can change your effective gearing and reduce HP at the point where the rubber meets the road.
10. Try a 160 or 180 degree thermostat. It may take longer for the car to go into closed loop but Dukes seem to run better in the 180-200 degree water temp range. Add a manual fan switch so you can cut it on at will, don’t wait for the fan temp switch to do it or the water temp will soar even with a low temp thermostat.
11. Be sure no calipers are dragging – especially the rear EM brake.
12. Run a batch of carbon removal and top engine cleaner through (Ed Parks sells this and the stuff really works!).
13. For quicker off-on throttle response, disconnect and plug the vacuum hose to the EGR valve. May have to move to mid grade 89 octane gas for this. Also increases emissions. Will not give more overall HP – only quicker throttle response. On a 2.5 the ECM doesn’t know this has been done. (Note this may cause emmissions problems. I.C.)
14. Give the car a wash and wax, clean cars always run better – you know, less wind drag over a slick surface thing.

If you have not done these low cost items, you will be amazed in how much better your Duke will run. Then, if you gotta learn the hard way (like I did) go ahead and face the wind and pull those bills out of your pocket for your visit to the johnny house…… or you could just donate them to me."

Amen! And thanks everyone.

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tucsonsean

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Khw
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Report this Post04-29-2012 01:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
Warning on the synthetic oil thing. If it's been run on dino oil all these years, sythetic oil will loosen all of the sludge in the engine. The transistion will have to be done with multiple oil changes within about 1k miles of each other to make sure you don't get sludge blocking the oil passages. Also, the sludge will be worked out of little cracks and crevises it's been plugging up. Meaning, expect to start noticing some new oil leaks, well not really new, they are old ones plugged up with old dino gunk.
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Report this Post05-01-2012 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fasttommySend a Private Message to fasttommyDirect Link to This Post
I am working on on my 2.5 now and have a few observations First it's a 88 5 speed 72 k not a fast race car by any measure. But if your looking for more pep you can get it with some cost. a ported head from a 91-92 Lumina including port matching the intake is worth a little power. Check out www.amotion.com for your camshaft needs. the crank is the week link I have been told. We will see? it should be worth 5500 anyway. If you think about it you will notice it is one half a 302 ? same bore and stroke that was a heck of a road race motor in 1969 I see no reason why this little motor can not make 1 HP for ea CU IN and that should increase the fun factor by 100 I am sure a fire breathing V8 or a Turbo 2.2 would also be fun just not my thing good luck with your build and god bless
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Report this Post05-02-2012 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for John316Send a Private Message to John316Direct Link to This Post
My duke is an 88 DIS with a cam. It is working wonderfully and out powers a lot of cars. It has a k&n filter and egr is enabled. There is nothing wrong with a duke. They just need maintenance. Good luck.

Jonathon.
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Report this Post05-04-2012 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JdlogSend a Private Message to JdlogDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tucsonsean:

This could be a good final word. It's from http://myfiero.com/how-to/e...duke-performance-faq

"We can debate this until the cows come home…..


1. Replace the fuel filter. Do this every other oil change or 6,000 miles. Restricted fuel filters lower fuel pressure. Lower fuel pressure translates to a drop in performance. This is often overlooked and is true for the 2.8 as well.
2. If you still have the stock converter, replace it with a new high flow unit. Gains will be noticeable as the original L4 brick catalyst is very restrictive.
3. Drop in a K&N air filter – or at least a new paper one.
4. Pop in a new oxygen sensor
5. Change to synthetic oil
6. On 84-86 Dukes, bolt on a performance coil and a new set of lower resistance plug wires.
7. Install a fresh set of spark plugs – NEVER put Bosch Platinum plugs in a DIS car (87 & 88) If you have not added a higher voltage coil and wires, close the gap .005 less than specified. “Trick” plugs (Splitfire, etc.) are OK, but a waste of money as far as performance gains. A set of new steel electrode AC plugs will do just fine.
9. Run maximum allowable air pressure in your tires and avoid those tall fat ones – especially on the back. They can change your effective gearing and reduce HP at the point where the rubber meets the road.
11. Be sure no calipers are dragging – especially the rear EM brake.
12. Run a batch of carbon removal and top engine cleaner through (Ed Parks sells this and the stuff really works!).
14. Give the car a wash and wax, clean cars always run better – you know, less wind drag over a slick surface thing.

If you have not done these low cost items, you will be amazed in how much better your Duke will run. Then, if you gotta learn the hard way (like I did) go ahead and face the wind and pull those bills out of your pocket for your visit to the johnny house…… or you could just donate them to me."

Amen! And thanks everyone.



I am just dropping by after years "off the air". Things have not changed much...that's good!

Among the things that have not changed is the eternal question...how to squeeze more out of the Duke? I edited the quote above from what Tucsonsean pulled in from the original website. I left the things that I did to my 86 5 speed, 2.5 notchie.

At the time, years ago, I had learned that "the wisdom of the elders" was worth respecting on the Duke findings. Thus, I figured that I'd enjoy my Fiero "as is"...until I found the engine upgrade I wanted for my Fiero. Since then, things got delayed because I moved to a place where I can't work on cars. So, it will happen later.

For now, the stock Duke is saving me money. It runs well. It can even hit 44mpg if I find myself doing 70mph with open windows (80mpg with windows closed, no A/C) after filling up with 93 octane of NON ETHANOL gas. Well tuned; also advanced timing for the gas. Tires at 35PSI. No fancy hardware.

It is no speed demon but it it still fun to drive...and cheap...and it still grabs attention...and some young people think it is a Ferrari of sorts...and who am I to disrespect their wisdom!
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-05-2012 02:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jdlog:

80mpg with windows closed, no A/C



I'm going to have to call you on that.
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Stainless1911
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Report this Post05-05-2012 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stainless1911Send a Private Message to Stainless1911Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

If you want any significant increase in power you need a new head or go turbo. There are just no bolt ons that will make much of a difference. At most, a normally aspirated Duke will make 120hp with the original head.


I thought a turbo would kill the little motor.
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