Years back I owned an engine that I used 15W50 racing oil in exclusively. When it came time for a rebuild the cylinders and bearing journals showed virtually no wear. I know the potential for accelerated lifter wear in a pushrod engine using synthetic oil is elevated, so I just wonder if adding 50% Mobil One 15W 50 to my regular 5W30 oil change will help extend its life. On the plus side the heavier viscosity oil mix should offer more film strength and perhaps longer engine life but at the expense of putting more strain on the oil pump. Anyone tried using a stronger viscosity oil in their 3800 and what was the result. I wonder what the oil experts at Mobil would say?

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

When it is cold it is the same as any other 15W oil, it simply does not thin out as much as a 15W30 does when it gets hot. Not sure I see a down side to it. If it is bad for flat tappets you could add some zinc to it and life should be good. Larry

I run 15w40 Dino oil in all of my engines even my wifes Saturn. Winters are pretty mild here but the summers can be pretty hard on an engine. Keeping the oil viscosity up should help that heat issues in hot environments (I would hope)

My concern to add 2 qts of 15W50 Mobil One to the oil change mix of Mobil One 5W30 was one based on slowing wear under conditions of heavy use. . My Fieros are only driven in Late Spring /Summer/ Early Fall so I am theorizing that it might do some good. If you look at the Mobil One synthetic oil chart 15W50 is recommended for flat tappet engines but the 3800SC uses roller tappets so this should not be the main concern..

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

i use

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

Mobil 1 states in one of their oil scripts that it is compatible with conventional oils as far as mixing so I don't see a problem with it. I use 10W40 Mobil 1. 40 and 50 W oils offer more protection under abusive driving situations. I'd advise it since many of us are running higher than stock power levels.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: Mobil 1 states in one of their oil scripts that it is compatible with conventional oils as far as mixing so I don't see a problem with it. I use 10W40 Mobil 1. 40 and 50 W oils offer more protection under abusive driving situations. I'd advise it since many of us are running higher than stock power levels.

That's my thinking as well except I only mix Mobil One synthetics together. IMO the standard oil viscosity ratings recommended by the auto makers are intended to cover a wide range of driving conditions that do not include repeated high performance use. I theorize that the higher film strength gained from adding two quarts of 15W50 oil to the 2 1/2 qts of 5W30 oil will give better engine protection. Since as you pointed out, many of us run modified engines with higher compression, additional boost and overall more horsepower than stock. This needs to be taken into consideration when choosing an oil that will suit the intended application.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

There are so many misconceptions and so much misinformation in this thread that I don't know where to begin ... so I won't. Just read Motor Oil 101, by Dr. A.E. Haas.

After reading the Haas article, if you still think that you need a "heavier" oil due to "high performance" use, the very first thing you need to do is install an accurate oil temperature gauge. Without good oil temperature information you're just shooting in the dark.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-22-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: There are so many misconceptions and so much misinformation in this thread that I don't know where to begin ... so I won't. Just read Motor Oil 101, by Dr. A.E. Haas. After reading the Haas article, if you still think that you need a "heavier" oil due to "high performance" use, the very first thing you need to do is install an accurate oil temperature gauge. Without good oil temperature information you're just shooting in the dark.

Temperature is no doubt important but thin oil breaks down more easily. If this were not the case then why do top fuel engines all use 70 weight oil??? They need the film strength.

This Mobil 1 webpage comes right from the source at Mobil Oil Co. and explains it better that the one by the charlatan that wrote the article that you reference.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA...Oil_FAQs.aspx#FAQs11

Also see here http://www.mobiloil.com/USA.../Mobil_1_15W-50.aspx

Mobil 1 15W-50 meets or exceeds the requirements of the industry and car manufacturers’ standards required for high-performance turbo-charged, supercharged gasoline and diesel multi-valve fuel-injected engines. Mobil 1 15W-50 is a winning, race-proven technology. It is especially suited for a wide variety of motorsports applications, towing and other severe service situations. Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic motor oil helps provide outstanding motor oil performance and protection for the winning edge.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-22-2012).]

Temperature is the main reason I started running thicker oil when I moved to Florida. I noticed that my oil pressure wasn't as consistent between changes when I moved down here, but changing to a heaver oil kept the oil viscosity at a more stable level between changes.

Oil has also changed a lot in the last 25 year, I noticed that my oil also lasts a lot longer and when I change it the oil looks cleaner. It could also be that oil filters have gotten better and the big magnet I put on the filter and bottom of the oil pan.

i use 15-50 in my 350. works nice.

I run Mobil-1 0w40 in everything in the summer and Mobil-1 0w30 in everything in the winter.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: There are so many misconceptions and so much misinformation in this thread that I don't know where to begin ... so I won't. Just read Motor Oil 101, by Dr. A.E. Haas. After reading the Haas article, if you still think that you need a "heavier" oil due to "high performance" use, the very first thing you need to do is install an accurate oil temperature gauge. Without good oil temperature information you're just shooting in the dark.

I believe you should state the misconceptions you believe are present for our benefit, rather than leave it to us to decipher them from that reference, which I read a year ago. First a publish date would be in order.

Next, he is a cardiologist, not an oil specialist and is applying his knowledge in fluid dynamics as it relates to production specifications and gives his article an appropriate title of "Motor oil 101" which does not address the modified and frequently abused applications many of us indulge in.

If you don't believe the above statment is relevant, follow his theories and try 5W20 full synthetic in a higher than stock compression, boosted motor based without considering those same non stock conditions and see what happens. Rod bearing damage and flickering low oil pressure light for me.

With the exception of those running without a thermostat there is no need for oil temperature monitoring because any driving rigor in excess of typical daily driving is going to produce even higher than normal oil temps suggesting higher viscosity is appropriate, you've read the article so you already know that the oil temps are generally hotter than the coolant temps.

My recollection is that a good bit of his discussion was dealing with proper understanding of oil pressure and viscosity as it relates to lubrication adequacy. That's not the concern here, more protection for higher stress loads due to increased performance is. There's no way I'll ever go back to 5W30 (The motor and pressure were fine with it) after my experience with 5W20 when technically a considerably modified motor is pretty much facing a chronic high performance condition that needs to be accounted for.

40 to 50 weight oil for protection against pounding bearings is a good thing. To fix a pressure problem, not so much.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-22-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Temperature is no doubt important but thin oil breaks down more easily. If this were not the case then why do top fuel engines all use 70 weight oil??? They need the film strength.

But, do you drive the car like a top fuel car? Do their engines have the same clearances? Will you change the oil as often and rebuild it as often? Just saying.. different animals.
If you must do thicker I'd only go 5w40. But it will still reduce flow from 5w30.

IMHO

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Temperature is no doubt important but thin oil breaks down more easily. If this were not the case then why do top fuel engines all use 70 weight oil??? They need the film strength. This Mobil 1 webpage comes right from the source at Mobil Oil Co. and explains it better that the one by the charlatan that wrote the article that you reference. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA...Oil_FAQs.aspx#FAQs11 Also see here http://www.mobiloil.com/USA.../Mobil_1_15W-50.aspx Mobil 1 15W-50 meets or exceeds the requirements of the industry and car manufacturers’ standards required for high-performance turbo-charged, supercharged gasoline and diesel multi-valve fuel-injected engines. Mobil 1 15W-50 is a winning, race-proven technology. It is especially suited for a wide variety of motorsports applications, towing and other severe service situations. Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic motor oil helps provide outstanding motor oil performance and protection for the winning edge.

Step 1: Go to dictionary.com and look up the definition of the word "charlatan".
Step 2: Pause for a moment of introspection.
Step 3: Realize there's only one charlatan in this thread.
Step 4: Apologize.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I would be wary of putting a magnet on the oil pan because it is not removed regularly like the filter or drain plug is. The debris is slowly gathering ans could be let go, releasing alot of particles. I have done the filter magnet before, and do use magnet drain plugs.

I pull it off every oil change, its was sitting right next to the plug. I plan on trading it for one thats in the plug next time I change the oil.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Step 1: Go to dictionary.com and look up the definition of the word "charlatan". Step 2: Pause for a moment of introspection. Step 3: Realize there's only one charlatan in this thread. Step 4: Apologize.

You are free to take the charlatans advise if you wish. The man is a fake. hence the title. BTW, what kind of car does he drive and how does he drive it? How many engines has he built and how often has he raced? Has he worked for a oil company or is he speaking out of his hat? If you believe every self styled "expert" on the web writing articles and giving advise there's no telling how screwed up you are going to get. I go to the oil source for reliable information. .

quote But, do you drive the car like a top fuel car? Do their engines have the same clearances? Will you change the oil as often and rebuild it as often? Just saying.. different animals. If you must do thicker I'd only go 5w40. But it will still reduce flow from 5w30. IMHO

The point is that extreme operation requires heavier oil for greater protection. Lets not get into a comparison between Fieros and top fuel dragsters. We won't see that type of extreme heat.
While my Fiero is certainly not top fuel it does operate at a higher boost and power level than stock. Tow vehicles also see severe operation especially when going up hills. They benefit from heavier oil. Since I am using a 50-50 mixture of 5W30 and 15W50 Mobil One synthetic oil I don't believe that the viscosity will be unreasonably high. Probably will end up with a viscosity index of somewhere around 14 to15. I do not believe that flow will be a problem as the viscosity index for 5W30 is 11. If you do the 50/50 averaging I end up with a 10W/40 oil but I am not certain that it works out quite this way.


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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-23-2012).]

I always used to use 50 w in my cars in the summer. I liked the extra cushion of a thicker film. I dont know how that works with todays engines and roller rocker arms, etc. I never had a problem with older V8s. Way before synthetic, i ran 10/30 in winter, 10/50 in summer period. I do know you must use 5/20 in new Hemi motors because of the MDS system. It needs to be that thin to allow the lifters to work correctly without a lag or jerk.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: How many engines has he built and how often has he raced? Has he worked for a oil company or is he speaking out of his hat? If you believe every self styled "expert" on the web writing articles and giving advise there's no telling how screwed up you are going to get.

That's the point I was getting at Dennis, his reasoning was sound but only as related to production vehicles. He apparently owns a few high end cars Ferrari etc.. and discussed his opinion regarding automakers seemingly making oil grade recommendations that didn't appear to show they really understood fluid dynamics early on, as well as the DIYer often using higher viscosity oil to maintain the 10 psi per 1000 rpm rule and other fixes since 100 psi pressure can indicate no flow across the bearings at all.

5W20 is becoming more frequent as an OE recommendation but that's in newer cars tested and proven to work safely with it and he suggested it in a full-size SUV application. My oil temps have run as high as ~250 deg in the Summer with normal driving and my bearing clearances were on the tight side but within manufacturers specs.

Following that articles theory in an effort to increase flow across the bearings got me in trouble. We're approaching Summer so flow is not going to be a problem with straight 15W50 on a cold start. I'd just use it as-is particularly since you've already had good results with it. I'm going to give it a try next oil change.

I run 5w40 esp Mobil 1 in just about every car I own. I buy 10 cases every few days from the local Benz dealership, so it is more out of convenience than choice of weight or brand. Oil is oil except the new tdi oil...in my opinion.
Dave

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www.hausofguru.com

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 04-24-2012).]

I also think a lot of manufacturers use lighter weight oil to get better gas mileage. All their concerned with is making the engine live till the warrany runs out. Racers do this especially for qualifying. Lite engine oil, trans oil and rear end oil. Some even back off the brake pads so they dont make contact with rotor to gain extra speed (they do have to be carefull not to TOUCH the brake till after the run) They use the crew to push and stop it while waiting their turn.

Here are a couple of things to consider.
1. The OEM manufacturers themselves recommend using a heavier weight oil for towing or severe use.
2. The 5W/30 oil recommendation is caused partially by the auto manufacturers having to comply with EPA and mileage regulations.
3. I have a close friend who has a car service. He has run his cars routinely 200K-300K miles for the last 20 years, exclusively on 15W 50 synthetic oil and has never had one incident of internal engine failure nor do his engines show any sign of excessive wear. He occasionally switches to 10W40 if the winter season is very cold for easier starting.
4. An engine used for severe service...turbocharged, supercharged, hopped up or one used for towing needs heavier weight oil. Under severe service your pistons are being pounded down at accelerated rates and more pressure is being applied on every stroke. Piston slap may even be present. You need an oil with a heavier film strength to cushion the rods action on the bearings and the piston action on the cylinder walls.
5 I find NO evidence that running even straight 15W 50 synthetic oil can be harmful but I am using a 50/50 mix w 5W30. Mobil confirms that both are perfectly fine to do. After doing the research I feel perfectly fine with my oil choice.
Many guys on this post already have the right idea.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

i'm planning on trying a different oil in a few weeks on my 3800s/c car. I drive the car daily and the oil is black....looks like diesel oil in about 1000 miles. The engine is low mileage and there is no sludge in the pan. When I took the valve covers off the other day, everything looks clean and new.
I'm assuming the pcv system isnt functioning properly due to the valve cover breather, SSIC and N* TB. I also beat the crap out of this engine every chance I get.
I've been changing the oil every 1000-1500 miles and using the 5w40, but I'm going to either go with 10w30 or 10w40 next service.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 04-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: i'm planning on trying a different oil in a few weeks on my 3800s/c car. I drive the car daily and the oil is black....looks like diesel oil in about 1000 miles. The engine is low mileage and there is no sludge in the pan. When I took the valve covers off the other day, everything looks clean and new. I'm assuming the pcv system isnt functioning properly due to the valve cover breather, SSIC and N* TB. I also beat the crap out of this engine every chance I get. I've been changing the oil every 1000-1500 miles and using the 5w40, but I'm going to either go with 10w30 or 10w40 next service. Dave

My oil use to look like that all the time, I installed a magnet on my oil filter and it made a difference. I put a lot of miles on my car with a lot of stop and go traffic. Plus I don't have the lightest foot so it does get beat sometime.
If nothing else I have always ran a magnet oil plug.
When I started maintaining my own car we didn't have a lot of oil choices, I don't think 5w30 was even on the shelves. So I have just kept doing what I have been doing and using the 40 and 50w, having multiple wight oil is nice for start ups but I have always trusted the higher viscosity oil, especially in Florida where it is alway hot out.

Also what temps do your cars run? My engines run between 180 and 200 depending on how hard I am driving, if I get on it in a race it will go to 210 but as soon as I am off it drops back down to 200 on even the hottest days.

My car runs around 185 consistantly. I drive it almost everyday.

Dave