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Braided fuel hose with worm gear clamps instead of original by Intel
Started on: 04-01-2012 08:52 AM
Replies: 14
Last post by: Intel on 04-01-2012 04:08 PM
Intel
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Report this Post04-01-2012 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelSend a Private Message to IntelDirect Link to This Post
This easter I'm planning to drop my fuel tank to replace a bad fuel pump.
I will try to swap out/restore as much as possible while I'm at it.
The in-tank parts are pretty much sorted out but now I'm planing on what to do about the three brittle "rubber" fuel hoses.

I have a couple of feet of Russell Proflex braided fuel hose, 3/8 and 5/16 but no AN fittings. Since I don't want to spend literally hundreds of $ just to get the hardline to AN fittings I was thinking of using the much cheaper "fake" anodized worm gear clamps.
I really don't want to use regular hoses since they seem to deteriorate quickly because of the increasing amount of ethanol mixed into the fuel (up to 15% over here). I know from personal experience that the Russell hose can stand the ethanol.
Has anyone experienced any problems using worm gear clamps on braided hoses? I've seen a lot of people using them on carbed applications but never on EFI.

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J. Larsson, Supporting Member, www.tjeena.se

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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post04-01-2012 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZSend a Private Message to RWDPLZDirect Link to This Post
Worm gear clamps should only be used on low-pressure fuel hoses, like carbs (~6 psi), and low pressure TBI systems like the iron duke, which run about 14 psi, but even then it's kinda iffy. For safety, you want to use properly rated hose and fittings so you don't start a fire.
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Intel
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Report this Post04-01-2012 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelSend a Private Message to IntelDirect Link to This Post
Just found this page http://www.russellperforman...ends/tube_seal.shtml and it sais Fuel Hose but nothing about carbed or EFI.

Aren't the original rubber hoses secured with clamps?
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Intel
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Report this Post04-01-2012 09:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelSend a Private Message to IntelDirect Link to This Post

Intel

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Turns out there are special "EFI clamps" that should be used for this type of application.
I will have to get a set and maybe see if I can fit the anodized cover over them.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/fo...e-fi-hose-clamps.gif

You always learn stuff...

[This message has been edited by Intel (edited 04-01-2012).]

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Riceburner98
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Report this Post04-01-2012 11:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
I've bought those before but don't remember where.. They need to be sized for the right OD of the hose, then they make a good 360* clamp. It's also possible to snag some from a junkyard if you can't find them locally.. The big reason (I think) not to use worm-gear clamps is once they go any smaller than their intended diameter (which happens 9 times out of 10) you end up with a flat spot in the clamping area since the worm part can't conform to a smaller diameter than it was intended. I hate those things.. .

I was sort-of in the same boat when I did the fuel pump on my 3800 swap. I had a new pump and an aftermarket VDO floaty sender thing, but wanted to completely get rid of the factory lines and go all braided. I made a custom fuel sender / pump holder / gas tank top with right-angle AN fittings screwed to the aluminum top. Then all braided lines up to the factory rails, which I'll replace with nice fuel logs at some point; I'll already have the AN fittings and lines to do it.

Will it "perform" any better than the stock sender / hard lines run to some braided lines? I doubt it. Was it cheaper? Definitely not. I probably have $400 into the setup, not counting my CNC time. The fuel sender does read dead-on though, and it's about as free-flowing as you can possibly get. For a minute I thought I'd be able to make an access hatch at the top of the tunnel behind the shifter, then I could just detach my AN fittings and lift the fuel unit out of the tank. I cut some holes in my about-to-be-junked parts car and found it was totally impractical though. I could have made a hole big enough, but with having to remove the shifter cables, throttle cable and brake vacuum line it was in no way worth the effort. I did make stainless fuel tank straps and stainless T-bolts / hardware, so in theory it should be much easier to drop the tank if it's ever necessary.

In the end, I would have been better off doing what you're doing, just clamping the braided hose to the existing hard lines at the tank. If you haven't looked, there are some "cheap" AN fitting options on eBay.. Not name-brand, but I've heard from at least one person that you can't tell the difference. That said, I bought all mine from Summit so I can't really say either way. (Edit - I posted a link to some braided-to-hardline fittings, but they say 25PSI MAX... Maybe not such a good idea! I have 1 at the top of the fuel pump, but at least it's in the tank so if it leaks it's just going back into the tank..) Though the factory pulsator thing is just a rubber grommet pushed over tubing, something tells me the compression fittings can hold more pressure than that thing..




Prototype printed in ABS:


Finished sender: (minus the float - I used the Fiero one as the VDO ball was too light. I also machined my own AN fitting wrenches. LOL)


Sadly it appears I didn't take any pictures with the actual braided lines attached.. I think I was so burned out after taking the sender in and out 20 times and pumping gas in and out that I forgot about it.. Oh well. Some day I need to make a build thread to show all this stuff.

------------------
Bob Williams
(still) working on the 3800 swap... It'll drive some day!

[This message has been edited by Riceburner98 (edited 04-01-2012).]

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Intel
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Report this Post04-01-2012 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelSend a Private Message to IntelDirect Link to This Post
Now THAT'S a clean and impressive setup!!

I've been looking on a few forums and one popular way to go is cutting down the hard lines coming from the tank and use solder on AN fittings. Another popular method is flaring the lines.
If I go this route I will swap out all my lines and go braided/AN fittings to the rail. It would look a whole lot better and match the look of the nitrous setup I have on plus it would be easier to get my nitrous systems fuel supply and pressure sending unit from a more hidden place instead of the "schrader" port on top of the fuel rail. I'm using the stock fuel rail setup with holley adj regulator on a custom built 3.4 pr.

The bad thing is the more I read and see the more money I'm willing to throw on this project...it all started with a bad pump...

I prefer Summit and name brands, I don't know why but it seems to please my ego :-) that's reason enough to buy Earl's or Russells.
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Report this Post04-01-2012 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALJRSend a Private Message to ALJRDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Intel:

Another popular method is flaring the lines.



Thats what I would suggest as well... Just make sure you put the threaded male fitting on BEFORE flaring the end and make sure the fitting being used is proper thread for matting braided fitting
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Riceburner98
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Report this Post04-01-2012 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
Nitrous!!!

That's always how it starts.... For me anyway. 1 simple thing like replacing a pump or sender turns into "while I'm in there....." $400 and 30 hours of labor later... I have a part that nobody will ever see except in pictures. LOL

I can't find a good closeup of the Fiero hard line connection, but from what I see and remember, it was just hose clamped onto the "barbed" end of the hard lines as you mentioned up above..
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Intel
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Report this Post04-01-2012 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelSend a Private Message to IntelDirect Link to This Post
I think I'll have to drop the tank and go from there. I already have the new pump + kit and a por-15 tank repair kit which I probably will only use the cleaning chems from. If the tank looks really bad I will use the coating.
The outside of the tank will get media blasted, por-15 and then por-15 chassis topcoat.
The sending unit will get a tune up and calibration. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/092117.html

The downside is that if I need any parts during a project I have to wait aprox 2 weeks for the items to get here from US... well in my case that might actually be a good thing... no spontaneous and costly projects... :-)
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Report this Post04-01-2012 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaDirect Link to This Post
There is a brand of worm clamp that I use whenever I need a worm clamp. As far as worm clamps go, these are the best you can buy. These will also work just fine with silicone hoses, as they have a rolled edge.
http://www.compperformanceg...C&Category_Code=GATR

I learned of these clamps in the early 90's. These were made by a small company, and at some point in the past 20 years they were purchased by Comp Cams which is now the sole distributor of these.

Cannot speak if these would be appropriate to use with braided line, but for any rubber compound hose, or silicone hose these are the clamps to use.
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Report this Post04-01-2012 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALJRSend a Private Message to ALJRDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Riceburner98:

Nitrous!!!

That's always how it starts.... For me anyway. 1 simple thing like replacing a pump or sender turns into "while I'm in there....." $400 and 30 hours of labor later... I have a part that nobody will ever see except in pictures. LOL

I can't find a good closeup of the Fiero hard line connection, but from what I see and remember, it was just hose clamped onto the "barbed" end of the hard lines as you mentioned up above..


I am the same way... The OCD takes over and the next thing I know, half the car is rebuilt... What I usually do, if I remove it, I recondition it...

If I remember correctly, the engine-bay end on the fuel line has the rubber hose crimped to the hard line; kinda like an a/c line...
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Report this Post04-01-2012 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalDirect Link to This Post
for fittings, bypass the vendors and go to a place like this

http://www.wicksaircraft.co...ubid=9457/index.html
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Intel
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Report this Post04-01-2012 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelSend a Private Message to IntelDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

for fittings, bypass the vendors and go to a place like this

http://www.wicksaircraft.co...ubid=9457/index.html


Very good pricing AND they ship outside US.... if it's okay for aircraft use...well then it's okay to use on my Fiero. Putting that one with my favorites.
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Riceburner98
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Report this Post04-01-2012 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
Wow, didn't notice you were in Sweeden! Must be similar to us trying to get parts for cars from the UK.. I hear it takes a month just to get a windshield for my buddy's Lotus Elise. Or getting parts if any of us could afford a Koenigsegg...
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Intel
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Report this Post04-01-2012 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelSend a Private Message to IntelDirect Link to This Post
Koenigsegg is actually beeing made just a few miles from where I live and sometimes you can spot one on the highway.... kind of takes the shine away from my Fiero.
If you could afford a Koenigsegg or parts I believe they would fly them to you overnight without charge.

The irony is that some original Volvo parts are cheaper from the US than they are here.
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