If you are a good welder and can make precision jigs, then replacing suspesion parts with welded tube parts is both lighter and stronger than the stamped steel parts. If you are really sure of your skill, then you could also replace the cradle with a full tube cradle and save a few pounds. The same goes for tubing out the frame.
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05:30 PM
kwagner Member
Posts: 4257 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
Ah, I thought this thread fell into the archives long ago, I'm glad I found it again. I've got a few new parts to bolt on to my fiero, so I'll get them weighed sometime soon and post the findings. Meanwhile, here's an idea on fluid weights:
44 lb for the front hood is a lot more than I expected from a fiberglass hood. The steel hood on my Dodge Stealth is 53 lb plus 2 more lb for the hood struts. The carbon fiber hood that I have on it now is 13 lb so it is a 42 lb weight savings.
A carbon fiber hood and rear decklid would be a decent weight savings on a Fiero. Does anyone know if there are any available?
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03:36 PM
Stubby79 Member
Posts: 7064 From: GFY county, FY. Registered: Aug 2008
44 lb for the front hood is a lot more than I expected from a fiberglass hood. The steel hood on my Dodge Stealth is 53 lb plus 2 more lb for the hood struts. The carbon fiber hood that I have on it now is 13 lb so it is a 42 lb weight savings.
A carbon fiber hood and rear decklid would be a decent weight savings on a Fiero. Does anyone know if there are any available?
I should also point out that the 44lbs includes the headlight doors and springs/hardware, though I'm sure that doesnt account for too terribly much. And as to carbon fiber hood and or decklid, I rememeber seeing links to them in some of those same threads. I think the decklid was like 13lbs and the hood 16lbs or so. Of course, they're dang expensive!
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04:00 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9483 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
The price of a CF hood depends a lot on how many people buy it. My CF hood for my Stealth cost me $450 shipped to my door. That was pretty cheap for a CF hood.
The Fiero hood may be a bit more difficult since it does have the headlight doors attached to it. I need to replace the hood on my Fiero anyway so I'm going to look into alternatives. I may just buy a big sheet of aluminum and replace the hood with that.
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04:13 PM
kwagner Member
Posts: 4257 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
44 lb for the front hood is a lot more than I expected from a fiberglass hood. The steel hood on my Dodge Stealth is 53 lb plus 2 more lb for the hood struts. The carbon fiber hood that I have on it now is 13 lb so it is a 42 lb weight savings.
A carbon fiber hood and rear decklid would be a decent weight savings on a Fiero. Does anyone know if there are any available?
Ahem,
The rear decklid on an 88 Fiero IS carbon fiber, ( not for light weight, but for RF supression ) I believe it was the first use of carbon fiber in a production vehicle, Pontiac won several engineering design awards for it.
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08:26 PM
kwagner Member
Posts: 4257 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
The rear decklid on an 88 Fiero IS carbon fiber, ( not for light weight, but for RF supression ) I believe it was the first use of carbon fiber in a production vehicle, Pontiac won several engineering design awards for it.
Its not carbon fiber, its just different above the engine section. On Pre-88 Fieros, there is a metal piece above the engine to help reduce electrical interference for the radio from the ignition system. On the 88s, this piece was eliminated and somehow integrated into the decklid. I'm not sure of the name of the material exactly.
------------------ Christian 87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd, 88 suspension, C6 polished wheels, C5 Z06 brakes, Konis, poly'd, Spec Stg 3, LED taillights Next Mod: LT1 fuel injection with Megasquirt II 301rwhp/345rwtq Stovebolt Powered!!!!! 06 Cobalt SS/SC w/ LSD (the slow DD)
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07:27 AM
Sep 2nd, 2008
Stubby79 Member
Posts: 7064 From: GFY county, FY. Registered: Aug 2008
I've still to weigh those rear suspension parts - I'm usre they weigh less now that they've had all the rust and grease taken off 'em! - but I thought I'd add a little tidbit. The aluminum framed/aluminum engined Acura NSX outweighs any Fiero, anywhere from 100-400lbs worth. (they're about 2950lbs, even more for later models!) Guess only Lotus did it right.
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08:28 AM
Stubby79 Member
Posts: 7064 From: GFY county, FY. Registered: Aug 2008
Rear Strut with Dust-shield/boot: 8.1lbs ea x2 Rear rotors: 8.8lbs ea x2 LH Axle: 15.9lbs RH Axle: 19.1lbs Rear Tie Rods, complete: 2.65lbs ea x2 Rear Springs: 9.0lbs ea x2 Rear Spring Hardware: 6.0lbs ea side x2 (Bolts, plates, cap, rubber, etc) Control Arm: 6.8lbs ea x2. (With ball joints, bolts and bushings) Rear Hub: 4.85lbs ea x2. Rear Calipers: 7.8lbs ea x2 Rear Pads:5.2lbs /set Rear Knuckles: 11lbs ea x2.
Total rear Suspension, brakes & axles: 170.2lbs. Not including wheel nuts, brake hoses, brake fluid, yada yada... There's a good chunk of your weight. I'm interested to see how much lighter the Gas struts I will soon be putting in are.
Couple of minor things: Engine bay steel Vacuum pipes: 2.1lbs Heater hose/pipe: 1.3lbs (goes down the passenger side of the engine bay) Fuel filter, hoses, rail pipes: 1.9lbs (dry)
The small things add up!
[This message has been edited by Stubby79 (edited 07-11-2010).]
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02:36 PM
Sep 11th, 2008
kwagner Member
Posts: 4257 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
Lighter would be better, but probably less safe unless accomplished with high tech alloys which weren't available or too expensive for a Fiero.
The rest of the weight - ~200 lbs for body panels/trim. 180 lbs for wheels/tires. 70 lbs for seats. 360 lbs for engine (all cast iron block/heads) not including accessories. 70-100 for Tranny. Spare tire - 35 lbs. Carpeting ~50 lbs. Gas Tank ~ 45 lbs. Suspension w/ brakes, shocks, steering, springs ~300 lbs. (This adds up to ~2000 with the chassis). Add the Exhaust system, Clutch/flywheel, Glass, Dash, Console, Gauges, Mounts and other hardware, Battery, Wiring, Headlamp mechanisms, Jack, Power accessories, Air conditioning, Radiator, Hoses, Lines, Fluids and 2700-2800 lbs doesn't seems so far fetched.
That makes sense, and if you think about it, there is alot of weight to be lost if you look hard enough. All depends what the car is for, and how far you wanna go.. for a strict drag car, ditch the interior (carpet, dash, everything), the passenger seat, replace stock drivers seat for racing seat, ditch spare tire, minimal gas, lightweight rims etc.. If i were doing a strict drag fiero, thats what id do.. it all adds up eh?
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12:36 AM
Sep 15th, 2008
kawana Member
Posts: 2329 From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Registered: May 2007
bump to ask, why does the 84 coupe weigh less than the rest?
Well, don't quote me on this, but at a guess: Less options & less useless "common" parts (brackets, wiring, etc that would be installed on all models but not all necessarily used, unless the various options were installed too).
That and the '84 coup might have been the only one to come with 13" steel wheels? Not sure on that, but it would account for a few pounds less.
Has anyone got the weight of the '88 cradle yet? I looked & can't find it. I ask 'cause I just made my "lightweight" cradle for the custom car (will make a much lighter one for for the solo car). I'll start a thread soon with pics of my cradle & will post the weight of it. Just want to know how much lighter it is than stock before I claim it's a REAL "lightweight cradle".
One easy way to reduce the weight of a Fiero is to take the guard beams out of the doors. Of course, if you get hit in the side, you're toast. I wonder if it would be possible to fabricate aluminum beams to replace them?
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09:48 AM
hklvette Member
Posts: 1439 From: Roanoke, VA Registered: Nov 2007
I've still to weigh those rear suspension parts - I'm usre they weigh less now that they've had all the rust and grease taken off 'em! - but I thought I'd add a little tidbit. The aluminum framed/aluminum engined Acura NSX outweighs any Fiero, anywhere from 100-400lbs worth. (they're about 2950lbs, even more for later models!) Guess only Lotus did it right.
Lotus only did it right if you don't mind a cramped interior and no cargo space. Fiero's have, for a small car, a cavernous interior.
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01:11 PM
Oct 1st, 2008
MJ Member
Posts: 214 From: Punxsutawney Registered: Jun 2008
Aluminum guard beams sounds like a good idea at first, but the more I think about it... How about fabricated titanium guard beams? I have been planning to something with the guard beams for a while this winter. I have all the resources to burn and fab titanium beams, if all goes well would anyone be interested in a set?
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06:40 PM
Bremertonfiero Member
Posts: 390 From: Bremerton WA USA Registered: Sep 2008
i lighten my friends car for autocross (not a fiero but same rules) , and altho you seem to bee looking for a street car, first i would take out all the interior and eliminat as much as you can (aluminum plates cover that up and look good) second as dump as it sounds there are big pices of steel that are there that are reduntent (at least in most cars) try under the spare look before you cutif theres nothing there hack away there are some dust covers (ie the ones over the rear struts) that could be renforced with light frame and replaced with plastice panals to block mud, water dirt etc take out all the sound stuff (i dont know if you want it) all the mounting things for the body panals. and above all do what i do in my car (with its stock four banger for now) dont date a fat chick i mean theres 180ish pounds
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10:22 PM
May 9th, 2009
kwagner Member
Posts: 4257 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
"The decklid for a fastback is 11 lbs lighter than stock." i quoted that from an email inquiry i sent him a while back. If any wants proof i can forward the email to you. I have integrity and i take college. Therefore, sourcing is a must :P
His name is Rick Lord. he is a nice person and responds well. $750 seems a bit much tho. Hope i helped
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01:14 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
After re-reading all these posts... Well, if the door beam doesn't weigh much(11 pounds)...then something sure does! I was thinking of losing the big, heavy scissor window lifts (And the motors to go with it) and replacing them with modern window regulators - motors weigh a third what the old ones do, and the cable lift systems weigh a fraction of the scissor lifts. The inner door panels, being made of fiberboard, weigh a lot too...will be swapping them out as part of replacing my interior, with modern panels that weigh maybe half of what the old ones do...also considering changing the door glass...it's really thick and therefor heavy on the fiero, so might be worth the efforts to modify the shape of the door closing to match a different window. If not that route, then I'll probably go with lexan. Also wondering how much the rest of the door frame weighs...maybe keep the beam, hinges on the one side and the locking mechanism on the other side, and scrap the rest? Not that thin sheet metal weighs much...it would probably weigh more if you replaced it with a fiberglass structure.
Other thoughts while I'm transforming my fiero anyway...making the part of my hood that opens much smaller, which will then require much less structural support, so all that heavy fiberglass sub-structure under the hood skin will be gone, or reduced at least...similar thoughts with the rear decklid...more of the covering to be part of the fenders so you're not wasting weight having to make the panels rigid.
A lot of my interior will go too, as mentioned above...pretty sure the dash panel I have weighs about half of what the fiero's does...and that console could use replacing or at least going on a diet! The old carpeting and insulation can go, replaced with newer, lighter materials while still keeping the sound to a minimum. Lighter seats...do something about that 15 pounds of sunroof glass! Ah, who knows what else...just thinking aloud here. :-)
You think Fieros have a weight problem! The Solstice guys are dealing with cars around 3000 lbs., part of the difference being the added weight of the rear end and driveshaft, and they can't get it dwon except by replacing panels with exotic lightweight materials.
Some of the Fiero weight relates to safety regs - those doors weigh a ton, and if you removed the side intrusion beams they'd be a lot lighter. But how would you feel driving around without them?
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12:30 PM
PFF
System Bot
Stubby79 Member
Posts: 7064 From: GFY county, FY. Registered: Aug 2008
From what I've read of late, that's probably because of the gearing being different on the Formula, not because of weight.
There is no difference in gearing between an 88 formula and an 88 gt with a manual trans. They utilize identically geared manual transmissions. I also believe the auto transmissions are identical as well but I'm not 100 percent sure on the auto trans models. In the manual equipped cars all the performance gains for the formula come from the reduced weight
Would the 88 Coupe be the weight of the 88 Formula then? I know I've read that the Formula is about a second faster then the GT in 88
Something doesn't add up then, because 100 lbs. is only worth about .1 in the 1/4. Obviously there isn't a 1k lb. difference between the two models. Wonder if the same guy drove both those cars to get the times? In a standard car, driver makes a world of difference.
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05:49 AM
sunofjustice Member
Posts: 306 From: clinton township MI USA Registered: Jun 2009
I love the fact that others have the same weight loss mindset!
Supposedly, you can achieve the equivalent of TEN horsepower for every 100 pounds removed.
This axiom makes sense,and has been my mantra, and passion ever since '05. Especially if you wanna go fast, but have no money....ditch the deadweight.
Heres a list of parts already " jenny craiged"......
A/C compressor and ALL various nomenclature, spare donut/ jack, factory headlights/covers /motors, Factory cat, trunk fan/ weirdo air tubes, throttlebody coolant lines, e-brake/ cable, evap. canister /brackets/ hoses, egr/ egr mount (HEAVY!!!) "Holes" for deck-lid vents, FRONT and REAR, replaced vacuum lines with some aluminum tubing I had from an old, aborted, firebird project. (Very LIGHT!)
I've thought about acquiring some grade five titanium to replace the door beams, maybe some scrap pieces to keep the cost down. Maybe KEVLAR as a second option, but not sure its CRASHWORTHY enough.
Percy speed glass (polycarbonate, I think), to replace the sunroof glass and rear window. This stuff is supposed to be almost BULLETPROOF, and they cut it for ya. (The third gen. org guys are already all over this idea.)
There are more "idears", but mums the word until spring comes. (No garage.) Besides, I'd rather post PICS about what I've done, rather than just BS a bunch of words. No offense.
One more hint..... the coil mounting bracket, and dipstick bracket, has some HEFT to 'em. Bolts can add up as well, just dont know EXACTLY how much. (I gotta get me a kitchen pound scale, geeze.)
In theory, with a little creativity, you should be able to get 300 pounds off the fiero VERY CHEAPLY.
My goal is to achieve a 2400-2500 curb weight, with 180 rear wheel horsepower. Hopefully!
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09:58 AM
sunofjustice Member
Posts: 306 From: clinton township MI USA Registered: Jun 2009
Almost forgot, still have the egr solenoid to give the 'puter something to play with. (Until I get a ecm retune, anyways.) But, that sucker is a chunky monkey as well.
Please do report your findings, more info = good 
