in the back of the shop I work at, there is a Oldsmobile 98 with a 3.8L Series II Naturally Aspirated engine, with 60,000 miles... The car is totaled (T-Boned), and the boss is going to send the car to the scrapheap. I told him I want the engine, transmission, and all associated parts (like wiring and computer), and he told me $400 and it's all mine. I pull it, then he scraps it. So I have a whole donor car for $400.

Since I have the whole car to raid, what Exactly should I be pulling? I don't need the transmission but I will take it anyway to resell to a forum member if they need a 4T60E.

Also, I will put the engine on an engine stand first and tear into it to give it a twice over, look at its condition, how well it was maintained, and consider upgrades. I was thinking throwing a supercharger on it, however I do know the internals are weaker than the 3.8SC engines and it has higher compression. The heads are the same cast but are differently machined... So I would need heads probably for such a swap.

I would build my own long tube headers, that's no problem. But what should I do for the littlest money? I am sure the N/A Pistons are cast, and not hypereutectic. If I were to supercharge it, I would need to find a cheap supercharger to rebuild, and find some cheap rods and pistons to maintain the N/A's compression ratio, while getting strong enough rods and the low expansion pistons.

I also would need to know the best tuning software... I am sure HPTuners would be the way to go there, but I wish some input from the forum, to see what you all use.

Flywheels? clutches? I got a Getrag in my car so I would need some sort of flywheel (preferably lightweight).

IN SHORT: Cheap engine, low miles, what would you do to give it that extra umph while it's out of a vehicle? I got all the time in the world to build it, because my stock engine is still going strong.

take the motor trans and wireing and PCM (computer)
If you are looking to go 5 speed with this a spec2+ will be fine flywheel you can buy ready to go from WCF or have a camero flywheel machined down, but its getting difficut to find a machine shop that can machine it and balance to the flex plate
Keep in mind when buying a camero flywheel alot of material needs to be taken off some shops wont do it or will charge alot .

quote Also, I will put the engine on an engine stand first and tear into it to give it a twice over, look at its condition, how well it was maintained, and consider upgrades. I was thinking throwing a supercharger on it, however I do know the internals are weaker than the 3.8SC engines and it has higher compression. The heads are the same cast but are differently machined... So I would need heads probably for such a swap. I would build my own long tube headers, that's no problem. But what should I do for the littlest money? I am sure the N/A Pistons are cast, and not hypereutectic. If I were to supercharge it, I would need to find a cheap supercharger to rebuild, and find some cheap rods and pistons to maintain the N/A's compression ratio, while getting strong enough rods and the low expansion pistons.

First off, they use hyperutectic pistons... The pistons themselves are very stout and could probably handle every bit of 700+ horsepower any day of the week.

The problem with the low compression blocks is the size of the connecting rods.. they are sorta wussy passed 500hp.

I would suggest a little turbo on a L36... You could run it all day in the high 11s without issues, and push it beyond that on occasion if you wanted to risk breaking a rod.

Take the risk with the n/a block. You would be better off going with the L67/L32 instead of taring into the n/a engine for stronger parts. Take the risk, if it breaks(doubtful), swap in a supercharge lower end. All the work in the swap is the custom stuff and changing lower ends is easy.

If you do the top swap then make sure you also put a high performance cam while you are there.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: First off, they use hyperutectic pistons... The pistons themselves are very stout and could probably handle every bit of 700+ horsepower any day of the week. The problem with the low compression blocks is the size of the connecting rods.. they are sorta wussy passed 500hp. I would suggest a little turbo on a L36... You could run it all day in the high 11s without issues, and push it beyond that on occasion if you wanted to risk breaking a rod.

So the L36 uses Hypereutectic pistons as well?

I was looking at West Coast Fieros' website and at their turbo kit. I could probably build my own for much cheaper than they offer the kit for, I just need the flywheel from them. Considering spending the money and getting Stage 2 or 3 clutch with Aluminum flywheel Turbo may be the more cost effective solution, and it has the benifit of, if it is tuned properly, of increasing fuel economy, vs the supercharger. Has anyone ever tried doing block hugging Twin Turbos on a 3.8L (Provided if there is room?), or "remote" twin turbos? If I could find some small turbos for cheap, lets say off of Audi 1.8Ts (I have to research sizes) I may be able to build it with all used parts to conserve cost. How much boost can the plastic intake take? probably not much... thus I would have to get a metal intake.

Brainstorming crazy ideas that take more labor than parts costs right now, since I have so much time to do it, as long as my 2.8L stays strong. I always have a feeling it will just explode, I never had luck with 2.8s. Maybe I drive a bit too hard.

EDIT:

Anyone know the size of the Audi 2.7TT Right Side turbo? they have the outlet of the intake on the same side as the inlet. This may work well for space constraints, plus these turbos arent super massive, perfect for hugging the block.

[This message has been edited by Racing_Master (edited 02-15-2012).]

The plastic intake will hold more than your engine can handle. Stage 3 will hold up to about 14 psi (400whp)

_{Why not quad turbo?}

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: The plastic intake will hold more than your engine can handle. Stage 3 will hold up to about 14 psi (400whp) Why not quad turbo?

I was thinking of running ~5PSI of boost, should be sufficient.

and lol, quad turbo. 4 mini turbos? :P. I would go Bi-Turbo for symmetry, and would "clean up" the engine bay's look with a turbo, vs this big thing hanging off the back. I could mount the turbo-brackets to the back of the head and/or header studs/bolts.

According to some not-so-sure math, I would need 2 Garret GT25 Turbos with an A/R of 0.63. Little java turbo calculator, not so sure how well it works though :P.

EDIT: and those Garret turbos are 1000 a piece, and I cannot find many used ones in the USA. I guess I am still on with the idea of the Audi turbos, which are probably pretty close. Brand new they are around 600 a piece, much better than 1000.

As long as the plastic manifold can handle the 5 or so PSI in it, a small bi-turbo setup would be interesting. Larger injectors and a tune would help a lot. I would guess 300-375hp is a reasonable guess with bi-turbos, as long as the rods hold up.

When I get the chance, I should break out the old school books and do all my turbo math. been years since I had to use it. I also got to find some used turbos I can refurbish.

I plan on taking out a loan to build the engine up and repair the rest of the car. That though is a project for April.

[This message has been edited by Racing_Master (edited 02-15-2012).]

A 3800SC "top swap" is one way to go but it can be expensive and harder to do than adding a turbo. I would definitely go with a turbo. That engine should take 7-8 psi with ease but you will need a 2 BAR MAP sensor and the SC software that can manage the boost. I would say that to be on the safe side, you will also need to precision tune. If you build the piping yourself, hang on the turbo, and get the PCM reprogrammed in addition to the swap parts you could probably get by for an extra $1500. If you do everything yourself I'd figure $3000 in parts total for the complete swap. If you use ready made parts this could bring the cost up. Be sure to size injectors accordingly.
I would not go with two turbos; extra cost, extra work, more engine compartment heat and no real gain. If you want to build on the cheap buy a good used Garrett T- 3 like what was used on the Buick Grand National. Those turbos are easy and inexpensive to rebuild and are sized perfectly, Rebuild kits that contain new bearings, seals and gaskets can be had for under $100.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I'm doing an L36 swap right now myself, it's in GFC, 3800/F23 swap. I would recommend you take the time to use a Series 3 N/A aluminum intake with an L67 throttle body like I did, even without a turbo. No issues melting stuff. Going Turbo would be the best option as well, and if you are going to go with the extra effort of installing a cam or anything increasing flow, getting ZZP's HV3 intake insert would be a very good idea, it reduces some low end torque, but greatly increases mid-high end flow in the intake. The problem is the cost of the damn thing, so I plan on making my own sometime.

Personally I'm not going turbo at this time, but it is planned for the future for sure.

Here is a recent picture of mine.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I would not go with two turbos; extra cost, extra work, more engine compartment heat and no real gain. If you want to build on the cheap buy a good used Garrett T- 3 like what was used on the Buick Grand National. Those turbos are easy and inexpensive to rebuild and are sized perfectly, Rebuild kits that contain new bearings, seals and gaskets can be had for under $100.

I completely agree with this, other then a "cool" factor, using more then one turbo is just a waste IMO.

Get a Camaro flywheel, get it turned , and it doesn't need balancing on the NA engine. I also used a series II intake setup. Much easier.

[This message has been edited by weaselbeak (edited 02-16-2012).]

I know a few Bonneville guys that top swaped their n/a 3800 for a s/c 3800 top end. Most of them didn't turn out so well. Likely because they didn't cool the charged air, but they were using the M90 vs a turbo. They used a smaller s/c pully too with no intercooler.

I think darkhorizon is correct here saying that the limiting factor is the weak connecting rods. You can cool the boosted air all day long, but the weaker n/a rods will only take so much "push".

If you want turbo, I would use a series II or III supercharged engine as a starting point. The rods are a lot stronger on the s/c engines. I've held both in my hands and it's very easy to see that the s/c rods are WAY stronger than the n/a.

Here is a picture of both of the rods. N/A on left, S/C on the right.

Thanks for all the replies!

I have decided to go with 2 Borg Warner K04 Turbochargers due to their size, and them having internal wastegates. Due to the fact they have internal wastegates, I can more compact the entire build. I decided also to do two turbos over one, to lessen turbo lag. Even though there won't be much PSI we are dealing with, I will design it for the littlest turbo lag as possible.

How far I go with the build, would depend on how much I can get a loan for. I don't expect much. I can pick up 2 K04 turbos, used, for 400 bucks total, 200 a piece, and a rebuild kit for 50ish a piece. This makes them very cost efficient. I can also strip the intercoolers from an Audi to see if I can make a proper intercooled turbo system.

I hope you guys will see me building this, sometime later this year. I will definately share everything with you. If I have the money, I know about underhood heat so I would see about how much it costs to ceremic coat everything. I would even coat the turbo housings, to hold in the heat and lower underhood temperatures. I plan on a true dual exhaust system with only resonators and no mufflers, similar to how a Dodge Neon SRT-4 is, using the turbos as the "mufflers"

Next, I have to do research on the K04 turbos wastegate spring, what they are from factory. They are small turbos, so they probably only have a 4-5 PSI wastegate, however you never know.