I changed from single "Pop ups" to 4 flush mounts. I used the 1 ground for BOTH of the 2 bulbs on each side, from the 1 large bulb, then the Power wire from the 1 large bulb to 1 small bulb ( 1 each for high & Low.) Now, if I put on the lights (Low beam) they come on, BUT.. When I change to High beam, The Low goes OFF, & the High Beam Comes ON ! they won't both light up "together" ! What am I wiring wrong ??? Thanks

You didn't wire anything wrong, that's the way the stock wiring runs our lamps. Since it's within one sealed bulb you don't notice that the lows turn off when you hit the highs. It only feeds power to one filament in the bulb at a time. I never understood why they would do it this way....maybe to minimize the load on the electrical system and therefore let them use cheaper componenets...don't know. Anyway, the simplest way to light all bulbs at once is to tie the high power to the low power feed with a diode positioned so that it allows power to flow from the high to the low but not the other way. You can get a diode to do this from Radioshack, just make sure you get one that can handle the load. If you are running bulbs with a higher amp draw than stock you might also want to add a pair of relays (one for low and one for high) wired so that their power feed comes direcly from the pos on the battery (with a fuse) and they are each activated by the wire that used to go to power the high and low beam filaments. If you don't feel like getting into all that Rick at projector retrofit makes a harness for quad beams that does just that (and it's well made....I got mine from him). Steve

http://www.projectorretrofi...products/wiring.html

I agree with QUIKRIDE86 except where he says "the simplest way to light all bulbs at once is to tie the high power to the low power feed". The single yellow 16 ga wire leading from the light switch to the headlight dimmer may not be sufficiently large to handle the current of all four bulbs at once. The max current carrying capacity of a short length of 16 gauge wire (which is what's used to power each of the low and high beam pairs separately) is 20A at 12V. That works out to a maximum 240W before overheating the wire (20A X 12V = 240W).

By tying all the headlights to a single 12V supply (so they all turn on at the same time), you'd be trying to support 55W X 2 high beams, plus 45W X 2 low beams = 200W total on a wire designed for a max of 240W. That's awefully close to the maximum if you're using standard wattage bulbs.

The other consideration is that the headlight circuit doesn't use relays, so all of that current (200W / 12V = 16.6A) is going to flow through the headlight switch. I'm not sure what the contacts in the switch are rated for, but I would imagine that's going to overload the contacts within short order. Normally, only a maximum of 9A runs through the switch with both high beams on.

The best way to achieve what you're trying to do is to use a larger dedicated 14 ga wire (good for 40A) to power the headlights through a relay rated for 30A directly from the battery. Use the stock headlight switch and it's circuit only to energize the relay. If you need a wiring diagram, just post saying so and I or someone else can quickly draw one up for you.

(edit: I need a better proof-reader)

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 11-03-2011).]

You need a relay for this conversion! I did this conversion on my firebird and added a relay... I have to do the same to my fiero here shortly...

"EDIT: This will NOT add a dedicated power source for the whole headlight system, but only for the low beams, when the high beam choise is selected. It uses the high beam as a signal (input) and flows current to the low beam lamp when the high beam is turned on. This allows both to come on at the same time with your high beam factory selection. You need one relay per side for this conversion. In the future, I plan to add a relay to the whole system to make the entire headlamp system independant of the factory wiring... make the factory wiring simply a signal source... that will allow for brighter more powerful headlamps! But I'm still in teh process, so i don's have a workable relay system as of yet. I would come up with it, but I'm at work right now! "


From the bird's write up page.... http://www.cardomain.com/ri...iac-firebird/page-12

I tested the car with a test light to see which wire was high beam and which was low, by turning on the lights with the weather pack unplugged from the factory headlamp. I simply grounded the clip and of my test light and used the probe on the other end to stick in the female connector to see which lit my test light on high and then low.
Then I picked which driving light, inner or outer, I wanted to be high or low.

Then I simply slid the male driving light connectors directly into the factory female weather pack slots. The ground wires, joined together into a single male blade terminal on the driving lights, I slid in the (black) factory ground female slot.

****************************************
REWIRING FOR TWO BEAM BRIGHTS
****************************************

With a bird's stock wiring system; one driving light would turn on for the brights, the other for the dims. I did not like this, so I got a kit from Summit that uses a relay to make both light for your brights.

Summit: SUM-G6219 HI-4 Light kit. The kit is only $15, plus shipping.

Note that in the kit wiring, taps, tie raps, fuses, and wire loom is provided in the kit. I'm trying to break the instructions down so you don't have to buy the kit, but it is worth it so you don't have to run to the store and buy everything separate. But if you have a relay, wiring, and experience wiring, you can do it yourself...

Here is how!
Relays wiring...
Standard relays have 4 prongs and are numbered as follows:
87: output to light
86: input (signal wire)
85: ground (new)
30: power (new)

Directions:
1: Mount the relay w/in 24 inches of both the battery and the rear of you headlights. (with fiero this will be longer.. LOL)
2: Attach a wire to the relay terminal 85 and ground to a grounded metal surface
3: Unplug the high beam wires from rear of headlight (in our case the 3 wire plug.)
A: Turn on headlights high beam and use a test light to determine which wire has power supplied to it...
B: Turn off headlights
C: Use a wiretap and attach a wire and connect it to the number 86 on the relay.
4: Unplug low beam... (In our case already unplugged)
A: Turn on headlights low beam and use a test light to determine which wire has power supplied to it...
B: turn off headlights
C: Use a wiretap and attach a wire and connect it to the number 87 on the relay.
5: Now attach a wire to number 30 on the relay. Run wire with a fuse (20 amp) to the battery or a suitable power source.
6: Use tie raps and electrical tape to secure the wiring and seal out moisture from connections. (or better yet solder and heat shrink)

For this application on a 87 firebird like mine:
Low beam (light brown on our cars) goes to 87...
High beam (green on our cars) goes to 86...
Ground (connect wire to chasis) goes to 85...
Power: (from battery or suitable power source). You must have a 20-amp fuse on this power line.

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 11-04-2011).]

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/115611.html#p6

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-04-2011).]

so, anyone that has put in flush mounts has had to "re-wire" & put in more relays ?! I was trying to get away from relays! the older cars with 4 headlights didn't have relays. I hate "electrical ! is there a way around it ?

The short answer is no.

First of all, not everyone with flush mounts wants all four beam on at the same time. Second, the old style cars had a huge floor-mounted highbeam switch which was rated to carry the current, and dedicated wires for high and low beams. What you want to do is push all the current for four beams through a switch and a wire designed for two. Like I said, the single 16 ga wire can carry up to 240W at 12V, that's a simple matter of physics that can't be changed. Whether or not the circuit breaker in the switch will allow 20A without popping is unknown since I don't believe anyone knows the rating for the CB. What wattage bulbs are you planning to use?

Relays are simple. They're just a high current switch that's turned on by a low current switch. Two wires for each switch for a total of four wires. How hard can that be?

Don't be afraid of relays. They are a good thing.
Your stock wiring and switches are 25 years old.
Connections and contacts (switches) will build up corrosion and resistance over time.
The resistance acts like a load and creates a voltage drop across an old switch or tired connection.
Your bulb still wants to do 55watts worth of work and now must do so with less available voltage.
Current will increase, the resistance in your tired switch or connection will generate heat.
The heat will cause more corrosion, more resistance, draw more current.
You lights may dim and then POOF. Accelerated failure.
Hopefully a fuse. (simple automotive fuses are best for short circuit protection not overload)

A member here recently added relays and bigger wire to his stock quad headlight set-up in his Buick.
We were amazed by the results. They were tons brighter with the same bulbs.
Could have been weak grounds, dirty switching, or the bare minimum wire size auto manufactures use.

Using your stock wiring harness to"signal power relays has several advantages:
1) very low current draw across your old headlight and dimmer switches = longevity.
2) The actual arcing parts are contained within the relay cube and not exposed to the environment.
3) You can up-size the wire to your hearts content.

------------------
"Now you too can see in the dark."
http://projectorretrofit.com/

quote Originally posted by hairballrm: Don't be afraid of relays. They are a good thing. Your stock wiring and switches are 25 years old. Connections and contacts (switches) will build up corrosion and resistance over time. The resistance acts like a load and creates a voltage drop across an old switch or tired connection. Your bulb still wants to do 55watts worth of work and now must do so with less available voltage. Current will increase, the resistance in your tired switch or connection will generate heat. The heat will cause more corrosion, more resistance, draw more current. You lights may dim and then POOF. Accelerated failure. Hopefully a fuse. (simple automotive fuses are best for short circuit protection not overload) A member here recently added relays and bigger wire to his stock quad headlight set-up in his Buick. We were amazed by the results. They were tons brighter with the same bulbs. Could have been weak grounds, dirty switching, or the bare minimum wire size auto manufactures use. Using your stock wiring harness to"signal power relays has several advantages: 1) very low current draw across your old headlight and dimmer switches = longevity. 2) The actual arcing parts are contained within the relay cube and not exposed to the environment. 3) You can up-size the wire to your hearts content.

Exactly!