So I bought a bolt on Turbo kit a long time ago and about a year ago i got it all hooked up. I'm not sure what turbo it is because there's no name or anything on it. But I got my turbo hooked up to a NEW 2.8 with 17# injectors, and a walbro fuel pump. The first time out nothing worked. The engine ran terrible. Turns out one of the valves was cranked down too tight never allowing it to actually close. I fixed that. That cylinder now holds about 120psi (all the others were around 140). After I put it all back togther it seemed to be running good. Now my only problem is the turbo never actually produces boost. It will "boost" up to 0psi and then nothing. The only possible thing I can think of is the waste gate. The waste gate takes a good amount of strength to open manually, so I don't see how this is my issue either.
I now have my turbo apart and can't find anything wrong with it. I've stolen the 17# injectors to put in my 3.4 fiero and I'm about to take the fuel pump too. Is there any reason I shouldn't take this kit off of my fiero? Or is there hope that it can be fixed? I've about had it with this car and I'm ready to get moving on it in one direction or another.
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12:35 PM
PFF
System Bot
nitroheadz28 Member
Posts: 4774 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered: Mar 2010
if it NEVER makes boost, you probably have a massive boost leak.
My thoughts exactly, although none were found. Or my boost/vacuum gauge never correctly read boost, but it never felt like it made boost either. Maybe I'm not doing something right on the Intake side of it, like crank case ventilation? I took the blow off valve off and placed a giant freeze plug in its spot incase it was stuck open and that didnt help.
if it NEVER makes boost, you probably have a massive boost leak.
or perhaps a badly worn turbo with worn bearings that allowed the compressor wheel to contact the housing or the turbo may be seized. Check that the turbo spins freely that there is no wiggle in the shaft and verify your boost gaunge is working correctly and try again. If the turbo needs rebuilding, many shops can do the service work. ------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, ZZP Intercooler, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 10-01-2011).]
So: you put a BUNCH of CHINESE MADE parts on it & you're wondering why it doesn't work? Nice blow-off valve, huh? Once you do get it working how long do you think it will last? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
China scorecard: 1) Bolts not up to grade. The *aircraft* industry had several failures because they were marked a higher grade than they were. They no longer use imported bolts. 2) Poison pet food. 3) Poison pet food - again. 4) Tires that blow out. 5) Poison toothpaste. Contains the same toxic that's found in anti-freeze. 6) More poison toothpaste. Import of toothpaste was banned from china so they combined it with toothbrushes so that it could be imported as "toothbrushes", to get rid of the poison toothpaste! 7) Toys made of lead. Imported by Mattel. 8) Toys with lead paint & small magnets that can kill children if swallowed. Imported by Fisher Price. 9) Poison pet food - the third time. 10) Poison children's paint sets - sold at Toys R Us. 11) Bugs in candy bars. 12) More (nearly a million recalled) Mattel toys with lead paint. 13) Flip-Flops at wallmart that cause a rash. 14) 1 million baby cribs recalled after 3 children die. 15) About 1.5 million Thomas the tank engine toys. 16) "Play Yards" with strings that strangle children. 17) Happy Giddy Garden toys that - you guessed it - contain lead. 18) Purple haloween pails from Dollar Stores that contain lead. 19) Disney Winnie the Pooh dolls that contain lead. 20) Bead kits that contain lead. 21) 500,000 KB toys wooden blocks that contain lead. 22) Baby Einstien toys that contain lead. 23) "Discover & Play" blocks that contain lead. 24) 1.5 MILLION Cub Scouts "Totem" badges that contain lead. 25) Levels that are NOT LEVEL! Try building a house with that!!! 26) Recall of certain children's items due to a lead exposure risk or entrapment/suffocation/choking hazard. The products include Halloween-themed baskets, children's jewelry, shaving paint brushes, pencil pouches, Boppy pillow slipcovers, flashing pacifiers, and storage racks with canvas totes. 27) COUNTERFEIT smoke detectors! Wonder how many folks have BURNED TO DEATH because of them? 28) You can add chain block that give while lifting a Fiero too. Lucky i wasn't under. Capacity was 2 tons, guy at the store told me that it wasn't meant to lift car. Two tons of car or two tons of S--- what's the difference I answered him. Thing was brand new. - Robert 2 on PFF 29) Toxic lead replaced by even more toxic cadmium in children's toys, trinkets. 30) Needed some lug nuts for mag wheels & couldn't find any that fit. we started checking the sizes & the lug bolts with the SAME PART # in the SAME BOX (made by Dorman in china) had sleeves that were 17.34 MM, 17.24 MM, & 17.18 MM! 31) Children's car seats made with CHLORINE & LEAD. 32) Arsenic in Chinese apple juice. **) Hell there's so many on the news every night I can't write them down fast enough! FAR more than I've listed here.
I don't know how long it's going to take for everyone to realize that ALL the CRAP we're getting from china is COSTING US MORE IN LOST PRODUCTION TIME THAN THE LOW PRICES ARE SAVING US!!!! AND you're supporting a COMMUNIST REGIME that has the world's WORST human rights record & is BUILDING THEIR WAR MACHINE with OUR MONEY! AND you're killing OUR ECONOMY when you don't buy QUALITY made in the U.S. products. Com'on everybody - WAKE UP!
China... better get used to it. Hate to ask where you think the parts for the computer that you are using to post on this forum came from...
That's been covered before. I built it myself, & yes some of the components were made in china. And those are the ones that have given me trouble... ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
What's so bad about China? The current dictator is responsible for more deaths than Hitler and Stalin... combined! I guess genocide is cool. But at least they don't censor the internet, and China has freedom of the press... err, wait a minute. I might have my facts mixed up. But I'm almost positive China is not a Communist country, and China has excellent retirement and worker's comp.
I'm just glad US jobs are not going to China and the US does not owe China billions of dollars.
The US is going down the toilet and nobody cares because they can buy cheap crap that costs 1/2 of a US made equivalent, but lasts 1/5 as long.
As for the discussion. I'm guessing the turbo bearings have too much play and the shaft is wobbling, not allowing it to spin fast enough to build boost.
I think the point is being missed here. Without pictures and real knowledge of what he has in his possession you can't accurately say that what he has is junk, especially not just because it's made in China. The bad stuff from China is probably just the learning curve fall out, from what I've been reading recently the turbos are much better, and the low prices have a lot to do with low production costs.
If it's from China it's cheap to begin with because of the cheap labor, not necessarily the materials, that' why our factories are moving their plants to countries like China to begin with and delivering quality products back to the U.S. at a huge profit.
His turbo is an example of cutting out the middle man. Although I suspect my turbo and wastegate is made in China, they've been working quite well. The turbo was purchased from a U.S. company but lacks any identifying markings other than specs.
This thread needs pictures as I believe he clarified in another thread that the turbo appeared to be fine. Otherwise, it's all speculation. There's nothing wrong with getting the same good deal our companies are getting.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-01-2011).]
People forget that it takes exhaust expansion to drive the turbo. the mixture must be correct and no exhaust leaks or it's not going to spool properly. As was mentioned, make sure that there are no places for the boost to escape. Check all the vaccum lines including the PCV and brake booster lines.
If it's from China it's cheap to begin with because of the cheap labor, not necessarily the materials, that' why our factories are moving their plants to countries like China to begin with and delivering quality products back to the U.S. at a huge profit.
I have yet to see a single thing made in china that was worth a crap. A SINGLE THING - & I've seen a LOT of china made shtuff! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
can you hear the turbo spool? Have you done a boost leak check?
Yes. I've had it on the road. It spools up very loud and noisy like.
How would I do a boost check? I've ran smoke into the intake until it came out of the throttle body.
quote
Originally posted by arte444:
Maybe your turbo is undersized. Are you checking your boost gauge under load or just revving it in the garage?
I'm checking on the road.
quote
Originally posted by SCCA FIERO:
As for the discussion. I'm guessing the turbo bearings have too much play and the shaft is wobbling, not allowing it to spin fast enough to build boost.
I have the turbo apart right now. No wabble in the shaft, but a slight movement when you try pulling it out or pushing it in. I'm told this is normal.
quote
Originally posted by carbon:
Anyway, there are no markings on the turbo at all? You could get a Chinese caliper and make some measurements... my guess would be leak or blow off...
I have removed the Blow off valve and put a 1-1/4" freeze plug in it's spot to assure nothing was leaking there. I have some 8" American made dial calipers and I can get some measurements tonight. What am I measuring exaclty? Intake size and exhaust size?
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:
This thread needs pictures as I believe he clarified in another thread that the turbo appeared to be fine. Otherwise, it's all speculation. There's nothing wrong with getting the same good deal our companies are getting.
Pictures of what exactly? I feel like if I'm taking picture It'll be of nothing specific. I can post some when I get home later, just looking for a little direction.
It's very likely that every turbo owner here that designed and installed their own setup can narrow down a non boosting turbo problem to the exact cause. This is an area you are having trouble in. Being able to see what your setup looks like may reveal a problem you are overlooking so pictures would be a big help.
Even revving an engine with your hand in front of the compressor outlet will reveal some sign of proper turbo function. Some may think not but this quick little test has blown my hand far enough away to serve as a good indicator that my turbo was moving a significant amount of air.
You should have a gasket or o-ring between the turbo compressor housing and backing plate. If not that might be the problem or part of it.
I don't recall telescoping (in and out) movement of the shaft being normal. A little side to side, up and down movement yes. If the turbo is noisy other than the classic whistling sound suggests there is a problem.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-03-2011).]
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12:58 PM
87_special Member
Posts: 266 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2006
You could always just pull the vac line off the wastegate actuator and go for a drive. This will keep the wastegate closed and allow all the exhaust into the turbine. Be real easy on it and watch the boost gauge. DON'T drive it hard. Just enough to spool the turbo. It should build boost pretty easily. If it still doesnt produce boost you have other problems and atleast you've ruled out the wastegate function as being the cause of the problem.
Also, where is your boost reference for the guage hooked to? Maybe you're not actually getting boost to the gauge. Have you verified the gauge is not faulty?
You could always just pull the vac line off the wastegate actuator and go for a drive. This will keep the wastegate closed and allow all the exhaust into the turbine. Be real easy on it and watch the boost gauge. DON'T drive it hard. Just enough to spool the turbo. It should build boost pretty easily. If it still doesnt produce boost you have other problems and atleast you've ruled out the wastegate function as being the cause of the problem.
Also, where is your boost reference for the guage hooked to? Maybe you're not actually getting boost to the gauge. Have you verified the gauge is not faulty?
Goodluck buddy. Hope it works out for you.
-JoeCooley
I've already removed the vacuum hose that controls the waste gate actuator, and it made no difference. The gauge i'm using is actually a vacuum gauge but it reads up to 15 positive psi. It's connect to the EGR nipple by the throttle body.
here's some pictures...
All of the above are from the previous setup. Everything below is from mine. Mine looked just like the previous setup, but I didn't have any of my own pictures and it's currently disassembled
Have you actually verified the wastegate is closed? I don't mean just checking the wastegate actuator. I mean removing the C clip and physiclly pulling the actuator arm loose from the wastegate itself. If that actuator arm is adjusted too long it will hold the wastegate open at all times. You can use a strong spring to hold the wastegate closed as it will be pushed open without something to hold it closed.
That looks pretty solid to me. If you are sure there is no air escaping prematurely from the blow off valve there are two things left, the actuated wastegate and the turbo. If you are sure without a doubt that the wastegate is closed and is staying closed, the problem may very well be the turbo given the unusual noise you stated you are hearing. Not having a clue as to what the noise you are hearing sounds like, it could also be the sound of escaping air. None the less even in that scenario if the turbo was functioning properly you would notice some improvement in acceleration. If you loosen and adjust the compressor housing with the wastegate in place it will affect its adjustment.
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10:52 PM
PFF
System Bot
newcoolcat Member
Posts: 250 From: Louisville, Kentucky, United States Registered: Dec 2006
Have you actually verified the wastegate is closed? I don't mean just checking the wastegate actuator. I mean removing the C clip and physiclly pulling the actuator arm loose from the wastegate itself. If that actuator arm is adjusted too long it will hold the wastegate open at all times. You can use a strong spring to hold the wastegate closed as it will be pushed open without something to hold it closed.
When i removed the turbo that was the first thing i checked, but i just did a visual with a flashlight. The wastegate looked to be closed
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10:58 PM
newcoolcat Member
Posts: 250 From: Louisville, Kentucky, United States Registered: Dec 2006
That looks pretty solid to me. If you are sure there is no air escaping prematurely from the blow off valve there are two things left, the actuated wastegate and the turbo. If you are sure without a doubt that the wastegate is closed and is staying closed, the problem may very well be the turbo given the unusual noise you stated you are hearing. Not having a clue as to what the noise you are hearing sounds like, it could also be the sound of escaping air. None the less even in that scenario if the turbo was functioning properly you would notice some improvement in acceleration. If you loosen and adjust the compressor housing with the wastegate in place it will affect its adjustment.
What if the turbo wasn't getting enough oil? Because when i tried to remove the oil filter after installing the engine it actually collapsed a little.. I think you can see it in the picture.
Originally posted by newcoolcat: What if the turbo wasn't getting enough oil? Because when i tried to remove the oil filter after installing the engine it actually collapsed a little.. I think you can see it in the picture.
If the turbo is not getting enough oil and there is no restrictor in place, the engine would not be getting enough oil either. As Hudini has pointed out also, you need to be sure the wastegate is closed and in order to do that you'll need to disconnect the wastegate actuator and check to see that its connecting rod actually retracts indicating that it is holding the wastegate closed under its static spring pressure.
To do this accurately the turbo must be in the same clocked position that it is right now on the car. If you disconnect that rod and it doesn't move inward toward the actuator and you are able to move the wastegate door of the turbo further inward toward what would be the closed position, then you have likely found the problem.
You can also remove the filter tubing and watch the compressor wheel while revving the engine some to see if it is spinning consistently with engine rpm. It may move a little to not at all at idle but should spin quickly with elevated rpm. Becareful not to have anything loose in the area that can be sucked into it.
You should also put your hand over the compressor outlet and rev the engine to see if it builds a significant amount of pressure to suggest it has the potential of moving enough air to keep up with or exceed the engine requirements. It should be more impressive than what you'd experience if you put your hand near the exhaust vent of a vacuum cleaner.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-04-2011).]
Connect this to the air filter side of your turbo. Fill it with it up to 10psi, just a bit more pressure than you run your car at. It should hold Pressure in the system for more than a minute. Spray everything down with soapy water. Any boost leaks/vacuum leaks will bubble up. This also works well on N/A engines to find vacuum leaks.
I've also put it on my tail pipe to check for exhaust leaks.
