I have an 86 SE model. Bought it from a friend about 6 months ago. A few years back he had lots of brake work done (new rotors, pads, braided stainless lines and master cylinder). He said the brakes worked "great" after that. Car sat for a year or longer and then the brakes were weak. They worked, but you couldn't lock the wheels up. Pedal was NOT spongey and did not slowly go to the floor as does with air in lines. The brakes were just weak, where you had to step HARD on the pedal to stop.

I bought the car and had a mechanic try to fix them. After seeing accumulated rust on the rotors (from sitting in a damp Seattle climate) and mashed into the brake pads, I bought parts and he did the following:

- Turned all 4 rotors
- Replaced all pads with new Wagner Thermo Quiet pads
- Replaced all three emergency brake cables and related small parts
- Flushed and bled brake lines
- Checked for vacuum leaks

The brakes are STILL weak with no noticeable improvement. He said the vacuum reading wasn't quite what it should be, but he couldn't find any real leaks after extensive searching. So, 3 questions now:

1. Does anyone know a competent mechanic in Washington state that's very familiar with Fieros who could reliably diagnose and fix this? If so, please give me their contact info. The guy who did the original brake work years ago is now out of business apparently. That was Olympic Auto Electric in Marysville.

2. Is there something obvious that my mechanic overlooked?

3. Would I be an idiot to take the car to a dealer? I thought about at least paying them to diagnose it after telling them what work has already been done.

I've read many posts in Fiero forums on weak brakes, but these brakes worked well after the work my friend had done a few years ago. They weren't inherently bad. Something just needs repair. The question is what?

Press brake pedal with car off. Then start car and press gas pedal. It should feel different, and go down farther with the car running. If not, your booster isn't working.

ditto

1. See my cave, brake section.
2. Get service manual, download http://www.fieronews.net/fusion/downloads.php
Use 87 service man, older SM has error in rear brake section... (Helm just copy/paste whole rear section from another car.)

Don't bother with Dealer... Most Dealer just bleed money and they have little to no clue.

If you have low pedal, check rear clearance.
Check:
Brake booster check valve... Valve lives at vac line on booster end. May just need cleaning.
Booster's vac line filter... If car uses it (Some don't) Filter lives in vac line in engine bay on firewall. Filter can be heat damage or blocked w/ dirt.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

Hi NWGUY,

it´s a little bit difficult to analyse your brake system from the distance, but i will try to give you some hints.
With the ignition off, step on the brake pedal till all the vacuum in the brake booster is gone. The pedal
should be totally firm. If you hear a creaking sound you have a problem with deflection. If the pedal doesn´t
feel firm, you propably have air in the brake system and/or deflection.
Apply the emergency brake slowly and count the clicks you hear from the lever. If you can hear more than
5 clicks you have to adjust the emergency brake. For adjustment see the Ogre´s website. You can find
the link to the site here on the forum.
Take off the front calipers and have a look at the slider pins.They should easily slide be clean and without corrosion.
Also check the grooves in the calipers were the slider pin o-rings are seated. The grooves should be clean. Grease the
pins with hightemperature silicon grease.
Check the caliper pistons if they don´t move it´s time for a caliper rebuild.
I would recomend to flush the brake system once more with a vacuum pump.(don´t forget to wrap the thread of the
bleeder valves with teflon tape).
While you are bleeding the brake calipers, move the caliper pistons totally in and out to the operating position. If
you can see dirt coming out of the bleeder valves, it´s time for a caliper rebuild.

Good luck
could be ano

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Jürgen Martin
white GT 87
Germany

Does anyone have pictures of the brake booster check valve and/or the booster vacuum line filter? Or can anyone describe their appearance?

I did the test, pressing the pedal with the engine off, then on. It was a little different with the engine on, and I heard a noise when the engine was on that sounded "squishy", maybe like a valve working or like fluid squeezing through a line or valve. The pedal was firm once fully depressed both with the engine off and on.

My emergency brake handle can be pulled up eleven clicks. So it sounds like my mechanic didn't install the new cables correctly.

Ogre, when you say "If you have low pedal, check rear clearance.", do you mean the pedal being low as in close to the floor? If so, it does not seem that way.

Clearance... Read my cave... Check pad clearance then adjust cable if needed. Adjust cable, see service manual.

Sound is likely normal. Sound is not check valve. Sound is main valve is open when pushing brakes.

Filter, follow big vac line in engine bay.
check valve, vac line end at check valve at booster. Small plastic fitting at end of vac line.

quote Originally posted by nwguy: My emergency brake handle can be pulled up eleven clicks. So it sounds like my mechanic didn't install the new cables correctly.

He may have installed them correctly, but they may not be adjusted properly. Or your park brake mechanism (internal to the calipers) may not be adjusting, which IS needed for good brake functioning. Try this:
- Jack up the rear.
- Apply park brake.
- Try to move rear wheels by hand

If you can move either wheel by hand, the park brake is not working, and you're not likely getting adequate clamping on either side. I'd also try:
- Jack up rear AND SUPPORT WITH JACK STANDS.
- Get under car, and have someone operate the park brake while you watch the park brake levers on the calipers.

With the park brake disengaged, the levers on the calipers should be at, or very near, the lever stop at the rear of the calipers. With the park brake engaged, the lever should be toward the front of the caliper, but not hitting the stop. There is not really an external stop for max travel, but if not adjusted properly, the lever will hit some physical limit, and you won't have any brake clamping force.

Make sure all the caliper slide pins actually slide. A frozen (rusted-stuck) slide pin will cause poor brake performance. Many people (even mechanics) will often over look the slide pins and do a brake job without checking their condition/opperation.