hi i been on here a bunch and im in the middle of my fiero project. i getting to the point of reassembling my motor. i have a couple questions. i went with the thrasther cam and im putting a 3.2 inch pulley on the supercharger and a 75 shot of nitrius. i was wondering what size are the stock injectors and pump i have on a 96 buick riveira 3800 series 2 sc. and what i size pump and injectors should upgrade to i want something to be able to handle 400plus horse. and does anybody have any feedback on the VCM suite im very interested in buying that. just wondering how in depth that program is. thank you greatly appreciated

[This message has been edited by dav86fierogt (edited 07-24-2011).]

stock injectors could work in a pinch..... but anything from 39-80# injectors would be a good upgrade... I always get the biggest ones you can get so you have options in the future, and let you spray the nitrous dry.

do you have the part number for the injectors. or what vehicle there for so i can lok them up. do you have an idea of a price too?

You can buy them off of zzperformance.com. I'm not sure about their value as compared to other 3800 vendors, but I do know they have every size you would need

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: stock injectors could work in a pinch..... but anything from 39-80# injectors would be a good upgrade... I always get the biggest ones you can get so you have options in the future, and let you spray the nitrous dry.

Not to question your knowledge darkhorizon, but I had no idea there was such a big window for injector sizing? I take it you just tune it to choke off injectors that are way overkill?

If your ecm is also from a 96 hptuners will not program it. I ran into the same issue, and ended up finding a 97 pcm to minimize rewiring. In hindsight, i wish id gone wiyh a 98 - 02 for greater platform support.
Good luck with your swap.

------------------


Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

According to my math, you'll need 55 lb injectors to be able to support 400 crank HP. The Siemens/Mototron 60 lb per hour injectors work really nice on these engines (they even give it a better idle than the 42.5lb injectors), and you should be able to find them from most vendors.

Is your 75 nitrous shot going to be a dry or wet system?

(Dry = relies on the engine's fuel injectors to provide the fuel enrichment when nitrous is activated, usually has some kind of fuel pressure booster unit as part of the kit)
(Wet = comes with a fuel solenoid and spray nozzle)

Wet systems are better/safer than dry systems. But that's relatively speaking. As easy as it is for people to pop piston ring lands on these engines, I don't recommend using any amount of nitrous on them, personally.

If you're going to use ANY nitrous on this engine, or this engine is going to be making 400hp without nitrous, I recommend you upgrade to an aftermarket performance (255 lph @ 70psi or higher) fuel pump. That stock 96 Rivi pump isn't going to be able to keep up.

As others have said, VCM Suite won't work with the 96 PCM if that's what you're using. If you are going to upgrade, get a 98-02 PCM (stick with 98-2000 programming to avoid some diagnostic test issues used in 01-newer programming).

-ryan

------------------
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

ok thamks for that info. as far as the pcm goes if i already had a engine harnass made for the 96 and want to get a newer pcm so i can program it which one could i get. are all the pins the same? are most of the pcms the same? and my nitrius is a dry shot. its on the 3800performance web site. its a computer controlled shot so it only feeds the optium amount to be the most efficent. i would really like to use the vcm suite because i want to write mulitple programs. street, strip w/nitrius, and strip w/o nitrius. thanks for the help

Wiring pinouts are very close between 1996 and 1997 OBD2 3800 PCMs. What differs most is the transmission controls. 97 L67 PCM/programming is set up for a 4T65-E transmission which is much different electrically than the 1996 L67's 4T60-E. If you're running a manual trans then you won't have any of this hooked up anyway so it shouldn't concern you and you might just be able to plug a 1997 L67 PCM (serv no. 16227797) into your 1996 harness and go. I would compare the pinouts for both to make sure all the critical circuits you are using matches up. I have pinouts for both PCMs on the wiring instructions I have posted here: http://www.gmtuners.com/files/index.htm

The PCM won't know when you have activated nitrous. And I don't think that nitrous kit has any kind of ignition timing retard function built into it. Which means you're going to have to change the tune in the PCM to work with nitrous any time you want to use it.

I suppose there could be a way to wire up some kind of relay and resistor setup into your IAT sensor wiring that would change the air intake temp signal going to the PCM so any time you are spraying, it would feed the PCM a false, higher intake air temp which you could tune the PCM to work with (and give the engine less timing advance any time it saw this). I don't know how quickly the PCM would react so you should run some tests before turning the bottle on.

-ryan

yeah i was going to get the nitrous after my break in period because i have a new cam and clutch. the nitrous kit im using is considered a "smart" nitrous setup by ZEX. it only starts spraying when i hit full throttle. i want to tune a program to retard the timing with the pcm to have nitrous being sprayed to be running on the strip. then have a program to run on the street without the nitrous. thats why i what the VCM suite. but if the pcm is the same from 96 to whenever ill just get the one that is the easiest to program and has the fewest problems. any idea which pcm would be the best? i just ordered a SSIC, 2.9 pulley, 60lb injectors, from zz performance. i need a high flow fuel pump yet. im also worried about my tranny, i have a getrag 5 speed. im building a motor that will probably have around 400 horse with just motor and more with the spray. what can i do to make my trans stronger to handke that power. i dont want an automatic because i love shifting. i want to use my 5 speed. thanks

[This message has been edited by dav86fierogt (edited 07-29-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dav86fierogt: yeah i was going to get the nitrous after my break in period because i have a new cam and clutch. the nitrous kit im using is considered a "smart" nitrous setup by ZEX. it only starts spraying when i hit full throttle. i want to tune a program to retard the timing with the pcm to have nitrous being sprayed to be running on the strip. then have a program to run on the street without the nitrous. thats why i what the VCM suite. but if the pcm is the same from 96 to whenever ill just get the one that is the easiest to program and has the fewest problems. any idea which pcm would be the best? i just ordered a SSIC, 2.9 pulley, 60lb injectors, from zz performance. i need a high flow fuel pump yet. im also worried about my tranny, i have a getrag 5 speed. im building a motor that will probably have around 400 horse with just motor and more with the spray. what can i do to make my trans stronger to handke that power. i dont want an automatic because i love shifting. i want to use my 5 speed. thanks

Every nitrous "kit" I've ever seen sold usually comes with a throttle switch which only allows it to spray at full throttle.

NOT all L67 PCMs are the same. 1996 is all by itself, 1997 is all by itself; with respect to the kind of programming used in them. Both 1996 and 1997 PCMs have similar pinouts and identical exterior case designs. 1998-newer PCMs are much different (in case design, pinout, and the type of programming they use).

HP Tuners VCM Suite does not support 1996 3800 PCMs as far as I know. But they do support 1997 3800 PCMs. If you don't want to repin your 1996 harness to work with a 1998-newer PCM, you're going to be stuck using a 1997 PCM.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-29-2011).]

I have used an IAT interrupt to remove timing on many many cars, it works fine. You can basically run a relay on the arming switch for the nitrous that disconnects the sensor faulting it to -40C.

I love 98 pcm's for most any 3800 setup.

Dave

If you want to run the 98+ PCM - ship the harness back to me and I will re-pin it for the 98 no charge.

phonedawgs thank you for that offer i will definetly take you up on that. i just need your address to ship it back to you. i really appreiciate that. i do what to run the a pcm that i can easily program and be very reliable. my car is not going to be a daily driver by any means but i want it to start every time. i have all the parts i need except for the clutch, flywheel, starter and alternator. can i use the clutch and flywheel from a 3800 camaro or firebird that fits my getrag? if so what size? and the starter, can i use the fieros starter on the 3800 on do i need and new starter for the 3800. thank for all the help.

Address sent PM

Yes the Fiero starter will turn the 3800. The 3800 starter is a much better design than the Fiero one however. It has a gear reduction drive and thus is both smaller and more powerful.

ok so now i just need a clutch and im good to go. i was looking at getting a clutch that will fit a 3800 camaro or firebird. but i dont know what size. i seen a clutch on clutchnet that should hold for what i want to do, i just dont know what size. plus i want to get a aluminuim flywheel to run with it. im also worried about running that hard of a clutch i want be able to drive it on the street.


thanks david koch

[This message has been edited by dav86fierogt (edited 07-30-2011).]