I picked up this engine the other day for an 1985 fiero I started comparing my engine to this engine and realized a couple differences to mine and my dad's fieros. Here are the pictures. I am just wondering if this is really an engine out of a fiero.

looks like an 88 to me.

-Dave

but its a 4 cylinder... They made 4 cylinder engines back in 88???

quote Originally posted by IFLYR22: looks like an 88 to me. -Dave

Or an 87. Look under the oil pan. If there's a 4-inch removable plug, it's an 88.

quote Originally posted by Robbie D: but its a 4 cylinder... They made 4 cylinder engines back in 88???

Since well before then. Fieros themselves had 4cyl engines available for all years.

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The duke was born in 1977:



Before that there was an L4 first used in the Tempest in 1961.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 07-08-2011).]

It has a serpentine belt, which means, if it was a Fiero Engine, then it is an 87 or 88. These engine use a different computer/ignition system and will require some re-wiring to make it work in an pre-87 chassis. Can you locate any stampings on the engine to tell you which Vin it would have came from?


BTW, the 87-88 didn't have a heat riser on the exhaust manifold, so there is a chance this is not a Fiero engine, or the exhaust manifold was changed.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 07-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: It has a serpentine belt, which means, if it was a Fiero Engine, then it is an 87 or 88. These engine use a different computer/ignition system and will require some re-wiring to make it work in an pre-87 chassis. Can you locate any stampings on the engine to tell you which Vin it would have came from? BTW, the 87-88 didn't have a heat riser on the exhaust manifold, so there is a chance this is not a Fiero engine, or the exhaust manifold was changed.

Oh boy this will be fun cause i actually have an 84 fiero just a question i fi had a choie between this 87 with 90k miles on it and an 84 with 70k miles on it which one would be btter. I know in 87 and 88 the fiero were built better but the 84 has fewer miles which would you guess suggest

Yeah, I would have went with the 87 .... I have had all years and the 84 was fine, the limited abilities to update would have lead me towards an 87, plus I like the coupe body in 87-88 better

If you are talking about engines, I would just get the 84 engine, to put in your 85. GM recalled a ton of 2.5L engines in 84 and replaced them. the 84 engine is a good engine and will last a long time with normal care.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 07-08-2011).]

Does NOT look like a Fiero engine, probably the oddball VIN U engine. If you wanted to put this engine in an 84, you'd have to reuse the 84 head, which will NOT bolt up to a VIN U block.

does anyone know where i could find the vin # on this engine at all by chance???

Should be stamed on the block around where the distributor used to be assuming that's a DIS engine. You can usually tell a Fiero engine by where the starter is mounted, opposite side from FWD engines. I was thinking of the S-10 rwd Duke that has the starter mounted on the opposite side.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 07-14-2011).]

quote Originally posted by spark1: The duke was born in 1977: Before that there was an L4 first used in the Tempest in 1961.

The Duke was born in 1962 and put in the "new" Chevy 11 for 1962. In 1963 it turned into a "new" straight 6 for all the Chevy lineup and in Canadian Pontiacs. The L4 (Duke) lasted a few years and disappeared until early 1980 where it was used in Citation, Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Fiero, Olds and Buicks and the mini trucks - all the way up to 1992 and a few beyond on some trucks.

I didn’t know that the older engine was also called an iron duke. In the article about the new engine in 1977 it mentions the previous design, a revised version of which then was still being produced in South America. The article says the only thing the engines have in common is the bore and stroke. Here the first two pages of the publication that mention the previous design:





Also see: Pontiac 2.5 Litre When GM needed a workhorse four, the Iron Duke was there

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 07-09-2011).]

Hey Spark1, Thanks for the pictures above. My first car was a 77 Sunbird like the one in that article. Man does that bring back memories! I haven't see one of those in years.

Bob

Here are the Fiero engine ID number locations:

Interesting, so is the engine in the Fiero actually a Duke with a crossflow head or is it a different engine? The one in the picture above does not have a crossflow head.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Here are the Fiero engine ID number locations:

I have checked a few "R" dukes for numbers in these locations and have only found one that had stampings at any of the points indicated. I just went out and checked the one in my garage and the only numbers on it are the casting numbers on the side of the block near the dist hole.. Nothing on the timing gear end or on the fly wheel end

The first thing I see in the pic is that the engine has an idler pulley and a serpentine belt. That by itself would make it an 88 engine. Second, I see a heat shield around the O2 sensor. I have an original stock 88 and it doesn't have that shield.
Third, Spark1's info about location of the starter on FWD engines. They are on the left or front side of GM FWD motors, just like the Fiero.
Fourth, Kwh. The OP's engine is a cross flow head design as are all Fiero 4 cylinder engines. Intake on one side, exhaust on the other.
As suggested by others, best to check the numbers on the engine for a positive identification.

maybe i will clean up the engine a little bit and try to find it if i can test start it and see if it runs as well as have a possitive id # i might try to resell because it would be to much hassle to rewire my car... Cause my car is an 84

quote Originally posted by fierofool: The first thing I see in the pic is that the engine has an idler pulley and a serpentine belt. That by itself would make it an 88 engine.

Or an 87...... As previously mentioned.....

Well, if it is a fiero engine, we have established that it is either an 87 or 88.
Did the 87 have the distributor, or did it have the coil pack like the 88? the pictures do not show under the intake plenum.
Looking at the oil pan will verify an 87 or 88+.

-Dave

quote Originally posted by spark1: Here are the Fiero engine ID number locations:

So wait where it says fw is that where the starter should be mounted at???

quote Originally posted by Robbie D: So wait where it says fw is that where the starter should be mounted at???

Yes, and on FWD engines the AC compressor is usually mounted where the PS pump is in that drawing.

Thanks, Joe. I didn't know the 87's also had the belt tensioner. I guess the quick way to identify it would to feel the bottom of the pan for the oil filter plate that TopNotch described. If it's there it's an 88, if not then 87.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Fourth, Kwh. The OP's engine is a cross flow head design as are all Fiero 4 cylinder engines. Intake on one side, exhaust on the other.

Yes, I know all stock Fiero 4 cylinder engines had crossflow heads. However I am intrigued by the early Duke engine not being crossflow and am just curious if, considering the Fiero engine is called a Tech 4, is it a Duke with a crossflow head, or are there alot more differences?

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-14-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: Yes, I know all stock Fiero 4 cylinder engines had crossflow heads. However I am intrigued by the early Duke engine not being crossflow and am just curious if, considering the Fiero engine is called a Tech 4, is it a Duke with a crossflow head, or are there alot more differences?

From the cited Hemmings article:

quote Joining the lineup for 1977 was an all-new, 5-liter V-8. Along with the eight came a companion four, a 2.5-liter, cast-iron, pushrod powerplant that Pontiac called the "2.5 Litre," and that came to be known as the "Iron Duke."

That seems to be the consensus. I don't know when or how how the nickname got started.

the "first gen" pontiac iron duke was introduced in '77; and reused most of the stovebolt 153 parts except the pistons, rods and crank; then they introduced the crossflow head befor 1980, the "second gen" is what's in everything past the end of the vega(the iron duke 151 replaced the all aluminum engine that was introduced with the vega because the general public couldn't take care of them)

as for the stovebolt 153 it's a modified straight-six, just like the 4.3l 90v6 is a hacked up sbc

ps. this doesn't inclued the vin u engines or anything past '87

pss. the 61 tempest engine is half a 389 bbp

[This message has been edited by baldlobo (edited 07-14-2011).]

Where the name "Iron Duke" originated...

Can anyone post pictures of what their 4 cylinder fiero engine looks like please from an 87 or an 88 i want to compare mine thanks

Coil pack (back) side, 88, 2.5L:



It was taken when I put it into my 85, so there are 85 parts around it, but the engine is full 88.

For reference, here is an 88 exhaust side (just pulled). The old 85 engine is in the same picture. Note the oil filter and distributor location on the 85. I believe the 87 also has the filter in the same location.
88 oil filter is in the oil pan. Also, the starter is on the exhaust side of the Fiero 2.5L 4 cylinder engines.



-Dave

adding: Forgot the second picture...

[This message has been edited by IFLYR22 (edited 07-16-2011).]

Jw would a starter from any fiero 4 cylinder engine fit in an 87 or 88 4 cylinder engine by chance?? Jw cause i might go to the scrap yard and pick one up to run a compression test

I don't know about anyone else but on mine there is a big "88" cast into the block on the exh manifold side. It's on the lower part of the block near the water pump. Don't know if any others were marked this way.

quote Originally posted by Robbie D: Jw would a starter from any fiero 4 cylinder engine fit in an 87 or 88 4 cylinder engine by chance?? Jw cause i might go to the scrap yard and pick one up to run a compression test

The starter from any Fiero of any kind will fit, as will the starter from many other GM cars. Just be sure to shim it properly.

Ok i got more pics of the engine I am almost positive this is a fiero engine but here are some more pics. I am mostly thinking about selling it my uncle said that the brackets on the engine is correct i just want to make sure its an 87...

[This message has been edited by Robbie D (edited 07-21-2011).]

That definitely looks like an 87 Auto transmission setup to me.

Serpentine belt,
external to the oil pan oil filter,
coil pack instead of a distributor...

A/C compressor on exhaust side.

I have never seen that heat riser on the exhaust before, but it may be something someone else added. The rest of it says 87 2.5L 4 cylinder for a fiero, to me.

-Dave

yup, looks like an '87 Fiero engine, but it may be from a different GM car (the heat riser).

nope it has the same bolt alignment as a fiero so yeah ^_^ thanks for everything everyone oh does anyone know how much i could i get out of it.