so after 30+ thrends i got a ton of questions... I have found so far... 85 4/5 speed? -500obo... 94 deville 400-whole car 90 deville 250-whole car/need water pump.. 4.9 Engine Bracket with mount from west coast fiero-$75 4.9 steel caddy fly wheel also west coast fiero-$345 now to the questions... what caddy's/year should i get, i do want ease of install and daily driver... where/how do i get a wireing harness for the 4.9 to fiero... should i upgrade suspension? what other parts should i get? oil cooler? 2 core radiator? axels? what about ac? what else should i kno before i start this big task?
ugh...soo much and is there ANYONE in NYS that has done this?
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10:56 PM
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joshh44 Member
Posts: 2166 From: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada Registered: Aug 2007
your probably looking anywhere from 2000 - 3000 for a complete job. cheaper if you do everything your self. most people like the gearing of the 4 speed. 1st gear seems to be to short with the 5 speed for the 4.9. best bet is to use the auto transmission that came with the car. you can also build them up so it can take more aggressive driving. and the gearing is matched for the engine as well. just need custom axles made. i would just use the wiring harness that came with the car and modify it for the fiero. its going to have to be modifyed anyways.
stock rad should be enough. oil cooler is more for autos. i wouldnt bother using one unless you are driving the car hard all the time. or towing things.
im wanting to do an engine swap and i like the 4.9 swaps. i been reading up about them lots. my best bet is to collect all the items you need before you start so you have everything. like coolent pipes. extra wires and hoses. extra vac lines and stuff. you can make your own custom mounts for pretty cheap. theres a thread about it somewhere. and your suspension will do just fine. the 4.9 weights roughtly the same as the 2.8. you might gain afew lbs but not by much. not enough to notice anything. bigger brakes? thats a possiblity. simple upgrade is installing the bigger brake booster from an S10 and use quality pads. that alone is a upgrade to the stock brake system. if you want more breaking power. swap in some grand am brakes. theres tons of threads about it here.
[This message has been edited by joshh44 (edited 03-29-2011).]
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11:14 PM
Ruffy Member
Posts: 597 From: jersey shore pa Registered: Jun 2008
so after 30+ thrends i got a ton of questions... I have found so far... 85 4/5 speed? -500obo... 94 deville 400-whole car 90 deville 250-whole car/need water pump.. 4.9 Engine Bracket with mount from west coast fiero-$75 4.9 steel caddy fly wheel also west coast fiero-$345 now to the questions... what caddy's/year should i get, i do want ease of install and daily driver... where/how do i get a wireing harness for the 4.9 to fiero... should i upgrade suspension? what other parts should i get? oil cooler? 2 core radiator? axels? what about ac? what else should i kno before i start this big task?
ugh...soo much and is there ANYONE in NYS that has done this?
85 4/5 speed? -500obo...------------- go 5 speed. more fun. thats if you want standard. the 4t60E that comes with the caddy is just fine but auto. 94 deville 400-whole car------------all depends on miles!? 90 deville 250-whole car/need water pump..------------might be a bad idea because caddys were known for there bad head gasket and this would lead up to that if not worsen it. 4.9 Engine Bracket with mount from west coast fiero-$75 4.9 steel caddy fly wheel also west coast fiero-$345-------------i would stay auto and save yourself a ton of $ and headache. should i upgrade suspension?-------------not really. from my understanding the 4.9 are some what lite and from what i was told there almost the same weight as the stock 2.8. not 100% on that but i know its close 2 core radiator?-----------mine is still using the stock (but new) radiator. it never over heats at all even under stress! what about ac?------------dont need it. axels?---------yes! a must for stronger axles. i forget whats in mine i think the pontiac 3000 or 6000. one of them old ugly cars no one wants oil cooler?--------yea why not. better cooling to the motor. what caddy's/year should i get, i do want ease of install and daily driver...-------depends on what you want and how much you want to spend. the 4.9 is the most common and is what i have in mine. has a nice deep V8 sound and lots of power. the newer caddys have the northstar in them and i do think there is a better turnout over all with the power and flashy chrome but then again you can find a running 4.9 anywhere making it much easier to find parts!
i would stay with the stock auto transmission. its a 4 speed auto and works well with the motor. if you have the $ to spend and really want to spend that extra for fun then go 5 speed. im sure many on here has done it. i live right beside you in PA and there are bunches of us all around that will talk you through it
so after 30+ thrends i got a ton of questions... I have found so far... 85 4/5 speed? -500obo... 94 deville 400-whole car 90 deville 250-whole car/need water pump.. 4.9 Engine Bracket with mount from west coast fiero-$75 4.9 steel caddy fly wheel also west coast fiero-$345 now to the questions... what caddy's/year should i get, i do want ease of install and daily driver... where/how do i get a wireing harness for the 4.9 to fiero... should i upgrade suspension? what other parts should i get? oil cooler? 2 core radiator? axels? what about ac? what else should i kno before i start this big task?
ugh...soo much and is there ANYONE in NYS that has done this?
. . . I'll answer a few of your questions based on my daily driver 4.9 Fiero that I have been driving for the last several years...
I'm sure some will disagree with my way.... but my method has been working fine for a long time now..... . . . .
Use a 4.9 (any year as long as it is a 4.9.... the 4.1 and 4.5 have reliability issues)
I used a painless wiring harness for a 90-92 tpi with a camaro ecm from a 1991 5.0 camaro with tuned port ... it works fine with 4.9 engine and 4.9 injectors... some sensors are 4.9 and others are from camaro. ... this combo works fine with 5 speed manual trans ... without needing to reprogram chips
No need to upgrade suspension... the 4.9 is a light engine
I don't use an oil cooler...(I don't think it would cool oil being that the engine is in the rear of the car and theres poor air flow back there.
I use stock Fiero V6 radiator.... Make sure the electric fan motor turns on when the engine gets over 200 degrees
Use your stock axles...worry about the clutch... (strong clutch! )
AC on this engine is super easy... the compressor is in the same location on the 4.9 .... your stock ac lines will reach easy.
And as for performance... I would recommend the Allante intake manifold... as I saw a noticable increase in acceleration after I swapped it in.
If possible... find a getrag transmission (and related parts).... I went thru 2 isuzu's until I converted to the Getrag.
And last I would recommend using an Allante starter ... as the 4.9 starter is heavy and doesn't fit if you use a manual tranny.
[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 03-30-2011).]
so from what you guys posted... i want to go with a stronger axel to kill any issues at all if i get on her alot... a new starter because i do want to spend the extra cash for a 5 speed... keep stock suspen. a/c lines are same from 6 to the 8.. possably use a painless wiring harness for a 90-92 tpi with a camaro ecm from a 1991 5.0 camaro with tuned port Allante intake manifold
and get extra vac lines and wires for harness...---still think ima have alotta issues with that...(not good at elect.) anyother ideas? hows 100miles on a 4.9 sound?
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08:39 AM
Ruffy Member
Posts: 597 From: jersey shore pa Registered: Jun 2008
Originally posted by bigone4242: still think ima have alotta issues with that...(not good at elect.) anyother ideas? hows 100miles on a 4.9 sound?
same here brother!!! i hate electrical issues sooooo dam bad. but like i said these guy will help every step of the way. and you ask hows 100miles? i think you mean 100,000 miles? if 100,000 miles thats not to bad. i wish more 4.9ers would chime in on what a good mile motor would have on it and issues with the 4.9 at high miles. i mysefl have a 4.9 fiero but only owned it for 3-4 months now so im no pro but still learning but i do alot of reading.
yeah 100,000 miles lol sry,.. how did you get yours? build or bought out right? I tryed to get in touch with fiero factory to see if they would make me the custom harness...im willing to pay for it..
what i want to do is get my laundry list of parts that i will need for the swap...ie part numbers and all that good stuff because i work at a autozone and get a really good discount on all my parts..=)
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12:40 PM
Ruffy Member
Posts: 597 From: jersey shore pa Registered: Jun 2008
yeah 100,000 miles lol sry,.. how did you get yours? build or bought out right? I tryed to get in touch with fiero factory to see if they would make me the custom harness...im willing to pay for it..
what i want to do is get my laundry list of parts that i will need for the swap...ie part numbers and all that good stuff because i work at a autozone and get a really good discount on all my parts..=)
i got lucky and paid 1500$ for mine with 0 miles on the whole car but transmission. i know you can tell me you hate me now lol. i do alot of reading on the v8 swaps and they seem to be easy. i would pay for a harness. better yet contact this guy asap!!!! he almost completed his 4.9 swap when the oil pressure dropped and now hes selling everything to do with the 4.9. so this would be the best way to get everything you need unless most of its sold already. here is a link. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/000112-17.html last page tells all of the failed 4.9 oil pressure witch rarely happens. contact josef644 asap! he may have all the stuff still. not sure. if he dont im sure he will tell you where he got it. plus that thread is very helpfull for a 4.9 swap.
i just sent him a pm for wireing harness and or engin mount...ill hope for the best..
still would lov anyone els input on how to get a 4.9 wireing harness pre fabed...
so this is my list so far.. 1 85 fiero... 2 4.9L v8 off a deville 3 5 speed trany from fiero 4 custom flywheel 5 custom engin mount 6 axesl-still dont know part # 7 Allante intake manifold 8 Allante starter 9?
[This message has been edited by bigone4242 (edited 03-30-2011).]
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01:09 PM
Ruffy Member
Posts: 597 From: jersey shore pa Registered: Jun 2008
i just sent him a pm for wireing harness and or engin mount...ill hope for the best..
still would lov anyone els input on how to get a 4.9 wireing harness pre fabed...
so this is my list so far..
3 5 speed trany from fiero 6 axesl-still dont know part #
If you are using a Fiero Manual trans or a newer F23, you use the Fiero Stock axles!
quote
Originally posted by bigone4242: 7 Allante intake manifold 8 Allante starter
The Allante Intake set up is a lot more involved in that, for a minimum you need: Upper and Lower intake, throttle body, T-stat housing, Fuel Rails, Injecters, and Injector wiring Add in the Alt Mounting, Steel rocker bridges and Valve covers for a complete Set. All of the Above will run you $600 or so.
------------------
**************************************** 88 Formula CJB Arrived Finally. #689 of 1252 Time to start Working TONY! There are Two kinds of Fiero's : Notchies and Donors!
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01:48 PM
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Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7570 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Allante starter not needed - you can use the stock but you have to modify the manual transmission housing (some people balk at this when I personally don't see a problem) - but, if you don't care about spending the money to replace a working starter have at it. I also personally feel that spending money on the Allante intake is a waste, no one has offered any proof (dyno) that it does make a difference, many have said they would, but nothing I have seen - feels better is not a real answer IMHO. The ONLY way to make power out of the 4.9 is with forced induction or NOS - don't waste your time with this motor if 200 hp is not enough for you, plain and simple - but again it is your call.
Milage >> mine originally had over 100k on it - drove just fine before I pulled it apart. For the record it was taken apart to do some work (PP intake, heads, blah, blah, blah). All clearances were checked and were well within spec - some items on the 4.9 have a large range when it comes to the specs. I can tell you that the 4.9 is a tough little bugger, I have had a few things happen to mine in which I though I had killed it (more than once) - one time I had a problem that by the time I noticed there was one (temp gage not working correct amoung other things) to when I was able to pull over to stop the car it had overheated so much that it stalled. When I tried to start it again after some time it wouldn't even turn over - first though in my mind was that it was done and siezed. Got it home, pushed it in the garage and left it sit. Went out the next day to decide what I was going to do, but decide for some reason to try starting it again and all was good. This was 6 years ago, still runs fine today.
Transmission - best gear - go with the stock auto, second choice is the 4 speed. Everyone says to stay away from the Izusu, but have had mine in since day 1 with no problems and I am not kind to it at time - BUT, my transaxle was rebuilt before the install and was in 100% good condition, nothing was unknown about the state of condition of the parts inside as it is with so many other people just slapping in a junkyard one/etc. So you can't really put all the blame on the transaxle - sure in higher horse power conditions it might be a poor choice, but hey the 4.9 is far from those.
Stock axles are not an issue, the 4.9 doesn't make enough go to break them (unless they are weak to begin with) - I have broken just about everything I could on my car with the exception of the transmission and axles.
The 4.9 is not a high reving motor, don't do it without installing the steel rocker bridge - ask me how I know this, just another one of those thing I have broken. DO NOT UNDER ANY CONDITION REMOVE THE INDIVIDUAL ROCKER SUPPORTS, ONLY remove the supports using the whole bridge. The separate rocker supports are installed using self tapping screws, if you remove them you have to throw them out and replace with proper bolts as you will not torque the self tapping ones down again properly and they WILL strip out - just a matter of when (again ask me how I know about this).
90 Deville is not a 4.9, that is the 4.5 (which = bad). 91-93 4.9 are estentially the same, there are some differences between the models, nothing major - easiest way to wire is the 91 Deville (Seville has 2 O2 sensors and different manifolds). 94-95 4.9 may use a different ECM and have some different plugs
Flywheel - buy from LSC, they have an aluninum one. You need a good clutch (ie. Bully or others, stay away from Centerforce will not work and they will not honor any warrenty since it was not 'designed for that specific application' - again ask me how I know).
Suspension - upgrades not needed unless you want to
Stock V6 rad is ok
Oil cooler, personal choice - I prefer it as it does help a bit with oil temp and it can be mounted that it does get airflow.
AC no problem - although I have read that the lines might have to be lengthened or something - I have no personal experience with AC
wiring - build your own, really it's not that hard if you can read a diagram and have PATIENCE. There is NO plug and play harness, they all require some wires that you have to hook up - and if it doesn't work at first, you still have to go through it and figure out what is wrong with it (which seems to happen alot from what I have seen).
YOU should also have stickpony reprogram you ECM MEMCAL - eliminates false codes and you can eliminate the VATS system
Parts - you can NEVER plan to have them all - there will always be something that you have to make a run to the parts store to get, but you can get most of the major items ahead of time, replace the water pump while it is out of the car. They are cheap and have been known to fail (can be changed in the car, but harder) - make sure it has the metal impeller though...
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 03-30-2011).]
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02:50 PM
stickpony Member
Posts: 1187 From: Pompano Beach, FL Registered: Jan 2008
85 4/5 speed? -500obo...------------- go 5 speed. more fun. thats if you want standard. the 4t60E that comes with the caddy is just fine but auto. 94 deville 400-whole car------------all depends on miles!? 90 deville 250-whole car/need water pump..------------might be a bad idea because caddys were known for there bad head gasket and this would lead up to that if not
Ruffy, not to correct you, but 90 4.5L caddy' are essentially a destroked 4.9L, they don't have known head gasket issues... you are thinking of the early 4100 HT (4.1L caddys ), or the modern N* engines. 87-95 4.xL engines don't have head gasket issues
I personally think the drivability of the 4 speed is better than either of the 5 speeds.. downside is that your gas economy will suffer. in all fairness, a 2nd gear launch using the getrag 5 speed isn't too bad though, it isnt far off from the overall 1st gear of a 2.73 deville auto tranny.
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03:18 PM
stickpony Member
Posts: 1187 From: Pompano Beach, FL Registered: Jan 2008
i just sent him a pm for wireing harness and or engin mount...ill hope for the best..
still would lov anyone els input on how to get a 4.9 wireing harness pre fabed...
so this is my list so far.. 1 85 fiero... 2 4.9L v8 off a deville 3 5 speed trany from fiero 4 custom flywheel 5 custom engin mount 6 axesl-still dont know part # 7 Allante intake manifold 8 Allante starter 9?
you have a PM Bigone
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03:20 PM
stickpony Member
Posts: 1187 From: Pompano Beach, FL Registered: Jan 2008
i just sent him a pm for wireing harness and or engin mount...ill hope for the best..
still would lov anyone els input on how to get a 4.9 wireing harness pre fabed...
so this is my list so far.. 1 85 fiero... 2 4.9L v8 off a deville 3 5 speed trany from fiero 4 custom flywheel 5 custom engin mount 6 axesl-still dont know part # 7 Allante intake manifold 8 Allante starter 9?
injection technologies is the only company who does it. i personally would do it for you, but i live in FL, kind of far away. i charge $550 labor, but i do it on the car, i don't have a jig setup here to make harnesses on the fly...i am seriously thinking about contructing a a jig for that purpose though...i see a distinct need for reliable 4.9L harnesses in the fiero community....if someone wants to work with me locally here in south FL who wants to get a 4.9L harness done, and allow me to take measurements of their car, i can most likely give them a discount. i recently liquidated all my fieros, so now i only have a 4.9L Citation X-11 left. great for testing the chips i program, but not great for doing a mock-up of a fiero engine bay, since the harness would exit on the opposite side of the motor....
anyways... whomso ever would like to work a deal, let me know.
Aaron stickpony@gmail.com
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03:39 PM
stickpony Member
Posts: 1187 From: Pompano Beach, FL Registered: Jan 2008
so from what you guys posted... i want to go with a stronger axel to kill any issues at all if i get on her alot... a new starter because i do want to spend the extra cash for a 5 speed... keep stock suspen. a/c lines are same from 6 to the 8.. possably use a painless wiring harness for a 90-92 tpi with a camaro ecm from a 1991 5.0 camaro with tuned port Allante intake manifold
and get extra vac lines and wires for harness...---still think ima have alotta issues with that...(not good at elect.) anyother ideas? hows 100miles on a 4.9 sound?
forget about the allante intake if you want to try and convert to an IAC valve throttlebody such as the 5.0L or 5.7L camaro, the throttle bores are too big to fit on the end of the upper intake manifold. your only option with an allante is the caddilac ISC motor, the allante throttlebody, and any of the stock caddy computers
not only that, but you would have to add a matching knock sensor to the engine, not a small task
unless you are modding the crap out of your 4.9L, don't try and reinvent the wheel, you will just make it alot more difficult to get on the road and running properly. use the stock caddy electronics, harness, and computer. it is SFI, and will get you the best power combiend with the best fuel economy
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03:46 PM
Ruffy Member
Posts: 597 From: jersey shore pa Registered: Jun 2008
Ruffy, not to correct you, but 90 4.5L caddy' are essentially a destroked 4.9L, they don't have known head gasket issues... you are thinking of the early 4100 HT (4.1L caddys ), or the modern N* engines. 87-95 4.xL engines don't have head gasket issues
I personally think the drivability of the 4 speed is better than either of the 5 speeds.. downside is that your gas economy will suffer. in all fairness, a 2nd gear launch using the getrag 5 speed isn't too bad though, it isnt far off from the overall 1st gear of a 2.73 deville auto tranny.
+1 i couldnt remember if the 4.9s had that issue or not. now as for the 4 speed and 5 speed. i think a 5 speed would be much better for him because the stop and go traffic of the city.
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04:10 PM
BigGuyTinyCar Member
Posts: 308 From: Los Alamos, NM Registered: Jan 2009
I have nothing much to add except my '94 Deville 4.9 with 88K miles still runs as smoothly and powerfully as a new engine. Starts up every time without a fuss even during those subzero temps we had back in January (and the Fiero lives outside). I've owned my car now for ~3 months and I've grown to love this engine.
One more thing to add. If you do go with an Injection Technology harness, be aware that they have a few issues...mostly minor--once you know about them--but for the price you pay for them, their quality control and understanding of engine swapping for Fiero applications should be better. I made a thread about it: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/114347.html -Tim
[This message has been edited by BigGuyTinyCar (edited 03-30-2011).]
ruff how much you askin for that 4.9? and did you have to remove anythin to make it auto? i might just buy yours and make it 5 speed if its not tooo hard...
+1 i couldnt remember if the 4.9s had that issue or not. now as for the 4 speed and 5 speed. i think a 5 speed would be much better for him because the stop and go traffic of the city.
+1 to you too bub.
tranny is preference.. i guess i am a lazy shifter , i just don't like 5 gears
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11:25 PM
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System Bot
stickpony Member
Posts: 1187 From: Pompano Beach, FL Registered: Jan 2008
