quote Originally posted by Fiero Racer 64: Justin... I think I may have read that some where to... Didn't know if that still needs done or not.. Also I pressed the brake the whole time but does that really do anything.. I don't think thats tied through the ECU is it? Same thing with the Park Brk... I guess I should have asked this before trying it... Yeah it scares me reving it that high... Ryan... Is this true?

Depends on the scan tool or software you are using to command the CASE Learn. Some want to see the brakes applied, and see the transmission in park, some will let it work with the transmission in neutral.

But I can tell you if you do have an issue right now with the 18x crank sensor circuit that is causing code P0336 to set, you won't be able to do a case learn until you fix that issue.

Concerning the brake switch, I can't remember if HP Tuners wants to see that or not; if so, you'll need to wire that up to this PCM. Concerning wiring up the PCM so it will think the auto trans you don't have is in PARK, you'll need to ground the wires going to pins C2-16 and C2-18 (both are on the clear PCM connector). Once you are done with the CASE Learn, you can disconnect these wires from ground.

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 03-12-2011).]

Ok, finally got some time to work on the car this weekend. This is what I found. After checking the balancer rings everything looked good. I then started to check the wires and ignition control module (ICM). Wires looked fine. I then checked to make sure I was getting voltage to the control module (knew i was because it ran). I had 12+ volts going to the module. I then checked the 3X side of the crank sensor going to and from the ICM. I used the volt meter to check the voltage from the sensor as I turned the motor over by hand (with the key on) and was getting 6 volts, 0 volts, 6 volts , 0 volts as I turned it over. From everything I've read this was correct. I then did the 18X side the same way. I got absolutly nothing as I turned it over. So I check the voltage going from the ICM to the sensor for the 18X and got nothing. I wanted to make sure the wire wasn't the issue, so I supplied 12volts on one end of the wire and got a 12 volt reading at the other end, so I knew the wire was good. So if Im thinking correctly this is my issue because the 18X portion of the sensor isn't getting voltage from the ICM, thus it can't send the voltage signal back to the ICM and ultimatly the PCM causing the P0336 code for the missing 18X signal. So bad ICM, does this sound reasonable?

These ICM's are crazy expensive... I was planning on getting a AC Delco replacement for it (D1977A). I checked locally at a couple of GM Dealers and they wanted $360.00... OUCH.. I've check online and found them anywhere form $195.00 up. I found a new one on Ebay for $145.00. Do I trust this??? I hope this will fix the code so I can do the CASE Learn... What a learning experiece...LOL

[This message has been edited by Fiero Racer 64 (edited 03-21-2011).]

(I can't say that your ICM is the problem but...)Check your local salvage yards. You should be able to pick one up for <$25. I wouldn't trust an aftermarket ICM, better off to get a used OEM. I'm seeing $40-$50 shipped for used ones on eBay. But check the junk yards first, should be cheaper and easier to swap out if you get another bad one.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 03-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero Racer 64: I had 12+ volts going to the module. I then checked the 3X side of the crank sensor going to and from the ICM. I used the volt meter to check the voltage from the sensor as I turned the motor over by hand (with the key on) and was getting 6 volts, 0 volts, 6 volts , 0 volts as I turned it over. From everything I've read this was correct. I then did the 18X side the same way. I got absolutly nothing as I turned it over. So I check the voltage going from the ICM to the sensor for the 18X and got nothing. I wanted to make sure the wire wasn't the issue, so I supplied 12volts on one end of the wire and got a 12 volt reading at the other end, so I knew the wire was good. So if Im thinking correctly this is my issue because the 18X portion of the sensor isn't getting voltage from the ICM, thus it can't send the voltage signal back to the ICM and ultimatly the PCM causing the P0336 code for the missing 18X signal. So bad ICM, does this sound reasonable?

The crank position sensor used on these engines shares the same power and ground inputs for both of the sensors inside of it (3x and 18x). If the 3x portion of the sensor is working (providing an output), then the 18x portion of the same sensor should also be providing an output UNLESS the 18x portion of the sensor is no good, or if the 18x signal wire is grounded somewhere in the harness or at the ignition module.

Crank sensor pinout:

A - 3x signal out
B - 18x signal out
C - ground input
D - + power input

There is also a cam position sensor that shares the same power and grounds as this crank sensor. The CAM sensor is mounted just below the water pump and only has 3 wires.

-ryan

Just when I thought I had it figured out.... Dang...

We'll I got a ICM and I'll go ahead and replace the sensor too...Hopefully that'll fix the issue.. if not then I'll have to dig deaper into the harness and see if there is issues there...

Also another quick question. When we run the car, about 1500 rpms the motors got a pretty significant vibration up to about 2600 +/- rpms. Then the vibration doesn't go away just is less noticable. I'm guessing it has to do with the pressure plate and clutch, but untill i get it apart and check it I won't know. I know the pressure plate was machined down to fit the getrag, are these normally balanced after machining? These 3800 are internally balance correct? Thus if the pressure plate and clutch arn't balanced it would cause a vibration? Any other ideas as to what may be causing this vibration. It wouldn't have anything to do with the timing or anything to do with the crank sensor error would it?

Time is getting short... First race is Memorial weekend... Have to swap it yet...LOL

Thanks for everyones help...

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WInning Isn't Everything, Wanting Too Is...

quote Originally posted by Fiero Racer 64: Also another quick question. When we run the car, about 1500 rpms the motors got a pretty significant vibration up to about 2600 +/- rpms. Then the vibration doesn't go away just is less noticable. I'm guessing it has to do with the pressure plate and clutch, but untill i get it apart and check it I won't know. I know the pressure plate was machined down to fit the getrag, are these normally balanced after machining? These 3800 are internally balance correct? Thus if the pressure plate and clutch arn't balanced it would cause a vibration? Any other ideas as to what may be causing this vibration. It wouldn't have anything to do with the timing or anything to do with the crank sensor error would it?

The pressure plate and clutch is what you buy as a kit from the clutch manufacturer, and they should be balanced together, neutrally. The pressure plate bolts to the flywheel; and the flywheel is what you have machined down to work with the Fiero manual transmission. The 3800 Series 2 and 3 engines are EXTERNALLY balanced; there is a counter-weight cast into the back side of the flywheel (side that faces the engine). On the auto trans flexplate, there is a counter balance weight welded to it.

The 3800 Series 2 and 3 Supercharged engines were never offered with a manual transmission. So if you bought a flywheel that bolts up to your Supercharged engine, it was probably made and balanced for a 3800 Series 2 non-supercharged L36 engine. The non-supercharged engines require a lighter amount of external counter-balance weight than the supercharged engines do. I think it is about a 40 gram difference (can't remember exactly how much). If you did not have the flywheel balance-matched to the stock flexplate that came off your 3800 SC engine, it is likely you have a 40 gram or so imbalance which you would certainly feel with the engine running.

A good machine shop should be able to balance match that flywheel to a flexplate, off the engine. My local machine shop has a "blank" shaft they can mount the flexplate and flywheel to (separately) so they can run them on their crank balancing machine. Then all they do is just drill the manual trans flywheel on the opposite side (180 deg) from the cast-in counterweight until they remove enough material to give that flywheel a counter-balance amount that matches the stock flexplate that came off the engine.

Now, having said that; if you have a misfire, it will cause the engine to run rough which can also cause the vibrations.

-ryan

I would like to personally thank Ryan for all of his help and patients with me over the last couple of weeksor so. Inspite of my newbie questions and lack of computerized engine knowledge, with his help I was able to get the 3800sc III / 5 spd swap that I just purchased running great with out error codes (MAF, TPS, CPS, O2) popping up... None of the parts I had were bad. It was either a wiring issues, or vacuum line on incorrectly, a sensor not grounded, etc. None of which I would have found without Ryan's guidence. Now its time to pull it out, clean it up and swap it in to the 85GT Racecar... First race is coming at the end of May... Just hope we can get it done in time..

Thanks Ryan...

Shawn

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WInning Isn't Everything, Wanting Too Is...