I was wondering if there was a way we could make the 7730 ecm swap a easier swap for people. I.E. get all the info into a easier to get package AND have a bin file that is free for someone to download and get burned into their chip for a stock 2.8 engine setup.

I am planning on doing this for my 3.4, so I wont benefit from the stock info, but others certainly would. The advantages of this ECM swap are huge and the process needs to be better documented as well as streamlined so that n00bs can at least have a pile of correct information to hand to a mechanic or auto-guru friend to perform for them. A lot of the information is spread all over several threads. I would prefer it to be on Darths website and I know he does not have the time to compile a nice complete document for it.

I'll be glad to be the caretaker of the info if nobody else wants to step up, I know that DarthFiero is the one that is the father of this swap but it has the potential to help a lot of people that simply want better driveability and to get rid of some of the quirks.

How does this plan sound?

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Get your copy of the Fiero 25th Anniv book at http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/349809

Best RV, Camper, and Trailer dealer in West Michigan. http://www.cliffstrailersales.com and he's a fiero owner too!

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 02-16-2011).]

http://www.code59.org/index.php is a good place with some starter bin files. I'l investigate further.

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/bin_lib/ a nice source of stock BIN files.

AZTY.bin is supposed to be the bin file for the 3.1l camaro I would love to find a cross reference of bins to cars/engine/year to get a better choice together I also want to separate into DIS and distributor so that those that dont want the extra work of switching to DIS can pick a better bin file.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/ for more info on ECM programming for those interested..

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 02-16-2011).]

A stock bin for a Camaro 2.8 will probably work. It's the same basic engine... iron heads, distributer, etc. But I don't think it has the cold-start injector or radiator fan switch.

I found Darth's instruction sheet to be sufficient for figuring out the wiring changes, and re-pinning the ECM connectors. But I think if someone were to put together a graphical pinout chart, that would help.

Graphical pinout is great and where I am heading, but there is a lot of other info that goes along with it to make it complete EGR, DIS or Distributor, etc....

I guess hitting two birds with one stone is kind of what I am after. Make it easier, but also give a starting point and a pile of info for those that want to dig into the ECM programming for it as well.

------------------



Get your copy of the Fiero 25th Anniv book at http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/349809

Best RV, Camper, and Trailer dealer in West Michigan. http://www.cliffstrailersales.com and he's a fiero owner too!

I think this is a great idea. I was thinking about creating a central spot for 3400 swap info using the 7730. One of the items that might be hard to locate is the ECM bracket. I just happened to find one from a junked quad-4 swap. I drew it up in Solidworks so it could be duplicated. It's a pretty nice design. I'm a little concerned the original designer might be upset by me not asking permission. I have no way of figuring out who it was though. I can send you the pdf if you like or the Solidworks file if you can open it. I'll warn you though, I'm an electrical guy so my modeling skills are ok but drawings pretty abysmal.

~sam

You can google doc post it and provide access to it.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: A stock bin for a Camaro 2.8 will probably work. It's the same basic engine... iron heads, distributer, etc. But I don't think it has the cold-start injector or radiator fan switch. I found Darth's instruction sheet to be sufficient for figuring out the wiring changes, and re-pinning the ECM connectors. But I think if someone were to put together a graphical pinout chart, that would help.

But that's the thing. repinning is not all there is to the swap. the Digital EGR, add a disconect to enter tuneup mode, etc... Plus covering the parts and items needed for a standard distributor install or a DIS install, etc... along with options that are on that ECM that some are not using. there are TWO fan outputs that have their own trip points. the second fan could be used for a decklid fan, intercooler fan ,etc but based off of engine temp and the other parameters that the main fan run off of.

Also the question about if the air that goes across the cold start injector is needed or can be plugged. Some say the IAC air goes through there, others say it does not.

Well I posted it. I'd like to emphasize again that if somebody recognizes this as their design I'd be happy to taken it down or give credit.

http://www.rustytearracing....cket/ECM_Bracket.pdf

Also if you'd like the solid models to create better drawings just PM me.

~sam

yes, wish I had documented my 7730 swap a bit more. I often forget some of the stuff which I had troubles with, and could use a little clearer instruction. and - of course - options. like the 2nd fan mentioned - I had no idea.

quote Originally posted by timgray: But that's the thing. repinning is not all there is to the swap. the Digital EGR, add a disconect to enter tuneup mode, etc... Plus covering the parts and items needed for a standard distributor install or a DIS install, etc... along with options that are on that ECM that some are not using. there are TWO fan outputs that have their own trip points. the second fan could be used for a decklid fan, intercooler fan ,etc but based off of engine temp and the other parameters that the main fan run off of. Also the question about if the air that goes across the cold start injector is needed or can be plugged. Some say the IAC air goes through there, others say it does not.

You're right. There is more than just re-pinning the ECM plugs. But I'm pretty sure Darth's instructions cover the EST bypass wire, and digital EGR wiring. And BTW, the wiring for the distributer and DIS are very similar. The DIS setup has one extra ground wire. But all the other wires are a one-to-one match with the distributer wiring.

That said, it would be nice to know which wires (on the 7730 ECM) are used for the FAN 2 temperature sensor input and fan control. That could be used for an engine oil cooler, tranny cooler, etc.

The IAC air passage does in fact go through the lower intake (next to the cold start injector). That's what the metal tube between the throttle body and lower intake is for. If you use a different throttle body, you can probably plug that hole in the lower intake.

When I did the 7730 ECM swap in my Fiero, I made up a (hand drawn) pinout chart for the 7730 ECM connectors. But the chart is specific to my engine (no EGR, manual transmission, electric charcoal canister, etc). So I'm not sure how useful it would be to the average joe. But I'd be willing to scan and post it, if you all think it would help.

One thing I didn`t realize right away when I went to do my swap is you can`t just put DIS on a stock fiero. You need a crank position sensor. As far as I know there are a few options. One, put a reluctor onto the crank internally, not really an option unless your building up and engine. Second, at one point some people were looking to have a reluctor wheel made to go on under the harmonic balancer, not sure if one was ever made or not. Third, get groves cut into the harmonic balancer, there is a diagram posted around somewhere. Of course any option will need a pickup.

Running a DIS allows you to remove the distributor and then you can use the camaro intake if you were interested in doing so.

I don`t remember seeing the fan 2 temperature sensor input and fan control, that`s good to know and could be really useful. Thanks

How complicated of a swap it is depends on what you want to keep or add.

If you delete your egr, keep your charcoal canister stock and don`t add anything then its just straight wiring. Mostly just re-pinning and just a few additional grounds to run back to the engine, one wire need to have a connector so it can be disconnected to set base timing. Additionally it would be a good idea while your at it to run the 4k ppm VSS back the the engine compartment if your interested in using the electronic cruise control (highly recommended)

If you want your egr and to add DIS and convert to electronic charcoal canister then there will be additional work.

As far as the cold start injector, I just unplugged it, removed the fuel line and capped off the fuel rail.

One option I would like to chase down is using the stock upper and middle Fiero intake on a 3.4 with the stock 3.4 lower intake that does not have the cold start injector. It would be best to use the 3.4's lower intake without those holes, but how to reroute the IAC air passage into the upper intake in that situation. Those would be more of an advanced section.

And yes, I forgot about the digital cruise upgrade, that one is another highly recommended upgrade just based on it's reliability and drive-ability increase. IT gets rid of the nasty bug in the stock fiero cruise that if you lightly and quickly touch the brakes and then let off quickly, the cruise will disengage and then reengage automatically. you need to press the brake pedal on a stock fiero cruise for at least 1/2 a second for it to stay disengaged..

I have started a ebook template for the information. It needs to be text, diagrams and photos. I need to contact guys here that have photos of their install and ask if I can use them in the document. I'll also include photos from when I do the upgrade here this summer, but I would like to get this document live and in a working form for review within 30-45 days. That way I can hopefully get more input from others with corrections and additions outside of just this thread.

Did this end up going by the wayside? It sounds like a great idea if someone is willing to put the work into it.

Nope I am still chasing things down. Working on documentation first as I am doing the 7730 upgrade to my car this year. so I can take photos and document what I ran into in detail.

Problem is I have a 3.4 so it will not be 100% for a person doing a 2.8 I am hoping that anyone doing a 2.8 will fill in details they ran into and put them here so a full detailed document can be made.

Then a community "bin" can be created as a starting point for most here if they want to try the programming themselves. Otherwise Darth can deliver what they need for a very affordable price.

It would go a lot faster if others would help with it, so anyone willing to chase things down, this would be a huge benefit to others.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 05-11-2011).]

If you are doing this swap, and want to use a digital EGR, the Georgia Fiero Club is going to be offering an adapter plate kit soon. They are in production now.

FYI: The secondary fan control for the 7730 ECM is controlled at pin F8. A relay will need to be added to that output.

Temp sensor input is the engine temp you set a different ON temperature. so it will trigger at a different temperature.
http://tpiparts.net/1227730_pinout_diagram shows all 3 connectors.

http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...ing-fan-control.html backs up what I discovered as well

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 05-11-2011).]

I was wondering if the 7730 swap will pass CA smog?

quote Originally posted by cvxjet: I was wondering if the 7730 swap will pass CA smog?

Since it's newer technology than the stock ECM, the emissions should be better if all sensors and controls are included.

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: Since it's newer technology than the stock ECM, the emissions should be better if all sensors and controls are included.

And you dont tell them.

it's ALDL so it will not identify to the reader if they plug one in, unless you tell them that youy changed the ECM they should not be able to tell the difference. Smog guys are not typically car smart.

Most aldl readers need a vin to be set correctly. With a different computer and code, most readers will not read the aldl stream based on the fiero vin number.

As far as egr and emissions, I have used the 1227727 which is an under hood version of the 7730, modified 8D code from a corvette, and with the egr and wideband oxygen sensor tied in for totoal control on a stock 86 2.8 4 speed. I was able to average 36 MPG at 65 mph but cannot comment on how clean it was. Testing is not needed where I live.

Another option is the 1227165 with modified code. The computer will install in the same location as the stock v6 computer, uses the same connectors and sensors, and has wideband feedback and control. This setup even has the highspeed aldl as well. If anyone wants to know more, let me know.

[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 05-15-2011).]

quote Originally posted by chetw77cruiser: Most aldl readers need a vin to be set correctly. With a different computer and code, most readers will not read the aldl stream based on the fiero vin number. As far as egr and emissions, I have used the 1227727 which is an under hood version of the 7730, modified 8D code from a corvette, and with the egr and wideband oxygen sensor tied in for totoal control on a stock 86 2.8 4 speed. I was able to average 36 MPG at 65 mph but cannot comment on how clean it was. Testing is not needed where I live. Another option is the 1227165 with modified code. The computer will install in the same location as the stock v6 computer, uses the same connectors and sensors, and has wideband feedback and control. This setup even has the highspeed aldl as well. If anyone wants to know more, let me know.

I've never seen a ALDL reader needing the VIN, even my Snap On high dollar ALDL/ODB-II reader does not need this in ALDL mode. In fact ALDL does not even have VIN information in the data stream. You are thinking ODB-II

I'll post my 59 turbo 3.4 code when i get it done. I'm close to getting there, but I have to fix up my boat first, which is taking forever!!!!

Chay

I used an OTC and an auto xray that needed a certain character of the vin depending on year and model to initialize correctly. That was a few years ago though. I haven't worked any with OBDII. I have been converting and tuning OBDI systems on vehicles since 1998, still haven't found a need to go to OBDII. Of course I modified my ecu's to be on the fly programmable, makes a world of difference in the time it takes to tune.

quote Originally posted by chetw77cruiser: I used an OTC and an auto xray that needed a certain character of the vin depending on year and model to initialize correctly. That was a few years ago though. I haven't worked any with OBDII. I have been converting and tuning OBDI systems on vehicles since 1998, still haven't found a need to go to OBDII. Of course I modified my ecu's to be on the fly programmable, makes a world of difference in the time it takes to tune.

They were just making it easy instead of choosing the engine type, the Snap on I have will ask for a certian setup card bsaed on Engine type and it lists vin digit to make it easier for the mechanic to set it up.

Fairly similar to what I have used. I think this would cause problems for the tester at the smog sniffer if they have to connect to the computer. Oh well, no worries where I live. Megasquirt 3 with MS3X is working good for me now, although I still fall back to the 7730, 749, and 396 ecu's when the situation calls for it. I even used a 427 pcm on a 3.8 NA with 4t65 trans. A few teething problems at first, but it is working great now.

I have a graphical pinout in pdf format it looks alot like the service manual drawing but has the 7730 pinout next to it and has the digital egr.
Don't know how I would save it here as a pdf.

They don't plug into the ALDL for OBD1 cars, they sniff them. for the smog test.
and there is no VIN in OBD1 cars anyway.

Since Darth came up with this swap, pay him for the chip. Only Fair

If he wanted the code out there for free he would have posted it.
Or come up with your own, like I did. Then post that for free.

Otherwise, I agree better organized information would be helpfull.

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"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

quote Originally posted by sardonyx247: They don't plug into the ALDL for OBD1 cars, they sniff them. for the smog test. and there is no VIN in OBD1 cars anyway. Since Darth came up with this swap, pay him for the chip. Only Fair If he wanted the code out there for free he would have posted it. Or come up with your own, like I did. Then post that for free. Otherwise, I agree better organized information would be helpfull.

Nobody was asking to post a bin file of darths. I am talking about a COMMUNITY bin file for those that are interest in tuning and learning. I am Glad you came up with yours on your own and too bad you are not interested in sharing it, but that's your choice. I AM interested in sharing because I'm that kind of guy, so i'll share mine. Darth is a perfect choice for those that don't want to buy a several hundred dollar burner and spend 12 hours doing it themselves. Even if I posted a perfect bin for the stock 2.8 it's still far cheaper to buy darths tune than to buy everything to burn the chip yourself.

it's about education and sharing so we can learn more about the upgrade.

It wouldn't matter if I shared mine as my engine is vastly different than any other on here, and so is my code.

These are my drawings for 7730 with DIS and digital EGR. ECM is on the left hand side first number(usually white block) is stock location second(yellow block) is the 7730

[This message has been edited by Arlyn (edited 06-24-2011).]

Has anyone done the "digital" can purge change? what parts did you use from what car? That way I can cross refrence and try and find the GM part numbers for refrence and see what vehicles they were used in.

The 3800s use both a EVAP purge valve and a EVAP vent valve. If all you are going to do is use the EVAP purge valve you can pull one off of a 3800. Top of the engine left hand side. You can use it inline on the purge hose to the stock Fiero canister. Usually then the vacuum line is connected to a non-ported vacuum source on the manifold.



http://www.greatautohelp.co...r-location/3800.html

I'm doing a drawing for the stock configuration on the 7730. How is the stock EGR configured with the 7730 , would guess egr coil 1 but don't see anything for the diagnostic switch.