What is the service life of the supercharger? I know the engines are very stout and have a long service life if maintained properly. When could I expect to rebuild the supercharger? I recognize that this is in open ended question. I would expect a SC driven hard or with extra boost would not last as long. What are you experiencing?

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88 GT 5 Speed Black with gray interior

They are just as durable as the engine. The only wear item in them is the plastic coupler, which is pretty cheap and easy to replace. The couplers usually go 80,000 - 120,000miles. There are bearings in there that can fail, but it is highly unlikely for them to fail as long as the oil condition and level are maintained. The supercharger uses it's own oil, it does not share oil with the engine.

My friend has a series II in his grand prix and his head gasket failed. He said this was common with 3800SC's in hot climates. Any truth to that or is his a fluke problem?

quote Originally posted by sportcoupe: My friend has a series II in his grand prix and his head gasket failed. He said this was common with 3800SC's in hot climates. Any truth to that or is his a fluke problem?

Sounds like a fluke if it really was the head gasket. I know the lower intake manifold to head gaskets were plastic and prone to failing. There is an upgrade for this though...

Aside from the coupler, the teflon on the rotors can come away over time, reducing efficiency.

Bringing the 3800's reliability into question is a bit comical for those of us who've been around the options available. The 3800 is indisputably the most reliable engine you can put into the Fiero, period. As ALJR was pointing out, aluminum intake gaskets are readily available, and a cast aluminum intake can replace the polymer N/A intake. But you're talking about a supercharged engine, which never suffered from intake manifold failure. Use green antifreeze, change your oil at regular intervals, use the aluminum gaskets, and begin putting 300,000 miles on your engine.

The heads themselves have a tendency to fail, but other than that the headgaskets never have a specific problems.

I have not seen one with a bad head yet. Not saying they can't fail, but I question how common a head failure is?

quote Originally posted by sportcoupe: My friend has a series II in his grand prix and his head gasket failed. He said this was common with 3800SC's in hot climates. Any truth to that or is his a fluke problem?

Mine failed. didn't realize it until i had to keep adding coolant to the car.

Almost every 3800 head will crack. The cracks between the valves are not a problem. They can be scraped for piece of mind, but many people have had zero issues running them whether it was unbeknown to them, or perhaps as an only option scenario.

I had one that cracked the seats fairly good, but it seems to be a fluke.

The 3800 SC in my 99 Buick had 102,000 miles on it with no issues when I traded it in. Now if the AC worked as well, I would have kept the car a bit longer than the seven years I had it.

I replaced the needle bearing in my SC case just to be safe any play in there will cause blades to score the sides of the SC case

My 97 SSEi has 235K miles on it with no issues except for minor valve cover leak. I've ran royal purple oil in it with a purolator1 oil filter, change the supercaharger oil every year. Still runs strong.

My Bonnville has a NA 3800 in it, I know you asked more about the SC but mine is up to 220k miles and still running strong.

3800 series 2 s/c 99 GTP 180,000 miles still going strong no oil burning or anything also running 3.4 s/c pulley u-bend exhaust eliminator performance cat modified throttle body and much more. Needless to say I drive this car extremely hard and it never fails to deliver. Flushed coolant to green Oil change every 3k with valvoline maxlife pf47 ac filter

Any one person might suffer from one or two different problems with their 3800SC, or any motor at all. Even the most well-maintained engine can fail, but do not mistake this as an "all of these things will happen" listing. We'd all be incredibly surprised if your 3800SC suffered from every single one of our problems. It is most likely that if your engine does need something serviced/replaced, it will be one or two different things (the only thing I have consistently heard of failing in these engines is head gaskets) that will happen with a wide timespan between them. Of course, I don't promise that, but that is what I have gathered from everything I have read/heard on these amazing engines.

Just maintain the engine as you would any other, if not more, simply because it will be going in (y)our beloved little Pontiac.

quote Originally posted by L67: .... The 3800 is indisputably the most reliable engine you can put into the Fiero, period.....

I know quite a few LS1 and other LS series engine owners that would laugh really hard at that statement. The LS1 is a incredibly well built motor, and a factory hand built LS7 will certainly outlast any factory built 3800 out there.

Compared to the other utter crap engines like the 3400 that GM made from 1995-2008? yes the 3800 is the best
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[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 02-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by timgray: I know quite a few LS1 and other LS series engine owners that would laugh really hard at that statement. The LS1 is a incredibly well built motor, and a factory hand built LS7 will certainly outlast any factory built 3800 out there.

I was very well prepared for this counter argument when I made the assertion yesterday. Here's your rebuttal.

The 3800 fits. No adapter plate is needed, it's the correct length, it has great clearances on all sides, and is easy to install. They also costs $120 a pop at my local yard. The 3800 is in many ways the 6 cylinder version of the LS. Ask any of the LS owners you know what they know about the 3800, chances are they don't know much about them, or are even verse them given the political science behind Grand Nationals, or they're well aware of its legendary reliability. The 3800 Series II was first introduced in 1996, the LS7 was introduced in 2006 - that's quite the leap of faith to make a statement about an engine that hasn't been in service for more than 5 years. We can look back on the LS1 however, and it's a dream platform.

But dollar for dollar, the 3800 takes the cake.

This is me, helping to replace a bad set of heads on an LS:





The M90 was used because there was an extra laying around. The engine dyno'd an addition 60 hp. It has since been replaced with an M122

I have a bad set of heads for an LS sitting in my shop right now. Cracked and leaking coolant into the crankcase.

We replace LS engines around 2-3 a month where I work and in the 5 years I have been there, I've never seen a 3800 replaced. Plenty of lower intake leaks, and service neglect, but no replacements... Likely because if one fails, from service neglect, it's traded in and sent to the junkyard as scrap.

Is the lower intake leaks you mentioned only for the n/a 3800 or did the s/c version have lower intake problems as well?

They both suffered from lower intake gasket failure. But the reason was because the factory gasket was made with a plastic frame and the frame would rot away causing the seals to fall out of place. The updated gaskets use an aluminum frame which is a far superior design with incredible durability, making the engine almost fail proof.

I recently acquired a 2004 3800SC, any chance it already has the "updated" lower intake gasket?

You can tell by looking at it. You can only see the edge of the gasket, but look at it and see if it's black plastic or silver aluminum. You might want to use a q-tip to rub any dirt off first. It's where the intake meets the head.

I don't have any pics of the plastic ones, but these are the aluminums.

[This message has been edited by 1fatcat (edited 02-05-2011).]

Here's a great picture where you can see what to look for below the supercharger lower intake (wish I had taken more pictures).



A specific culprit for the plastic gasket failure was Dexcool coolant. DO NOT use dexcool in anything (tractors, 3800's, LS's, 2.5L's), Dexcool is garbage, and Its beyond me how they haven't had so many class action lawsuits they abandon the formula completely.

Here's a video to help further understanding. Oh I know a number of the Series III engines were assembled using the newer aluminum gaskets, I'm not sure what year this began though. You can buy the aluminum set online or from local distributors such as Advance Auto.

I did not make this video, in fact the guys rambles and annoys me, but he does get the point across.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 02-05-2011).]

quote Originally posted by L67: The M90 was used because there was an extra laying around. The engine dyno'd an addition 60 hp. It has since been replaced with an M122

Pocket's car is awesome! I can't wait to see the M122 dyno numbers!

quote Originally posted by ericjon262: Pocket's car is awesome! I can't wait to see the M122 dyno numbers!

It's going to be a lot of fun.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 02-06-2011).]

what car is that? i cant figure it out.

I'guessing ta? Pop up headlights

quote Originally posted by dhobbs84sc: I'guessing ta? Pop up headlights

Thats my guess too!