I took apart the 88 China hub and it uses the same SKF bearing eBearing uses in their 88 wheel bearing assemblies. SKF 309726 DA. The ball bearing diameter is .375 both inner and outer. The difference is how the bearing is secured into the inner hub. This SKF 309726 DA bearing is a stand alone over the counter bearing anyone can buy. So both the eBearing and the China bearing can be rebuilt with new bearings. This web page shows this SKF bearing:

http://www.pilotodyssey.com...?f=1&t=6084&start=20

It has 2 inner races and one outer race plus seals on both sides. It is a double roller bearing assembly.



On the top of the inner flange you can see where the snap ring goes to hold this SKF bearing into the center hub in the China bearing.

My guess with the China bearing that failed, it failed where the snap ring holds the bearing into the inner flange. Possibly the steel around the snap ring failed. It is not too thick there. eBearing uses a different system to hold the SKF bearing into the center flange which also fails under heavy side loads.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

quote Originally posted by Rodney: I took apart the 88 China hub and it uses the same SKF bearing eBearing uses in their 88 wheel bearing assemblies. SKF 309726 DA. The ball bearing diameter is .375 both inner and outer. The difference is how the bearing is secured into the inner hub. This SKF 309726 DA bearing is a stand alone over the counter bearing anyone can buy. So both the eBearing and the China bearing can be rebuilt with new bearings. This web page shows this SKF bearing: http://www.pilotodyssey.com...?f=1&t=6084&start=20 It has 2 inner races and one outer race plus seals on both sides. It is a double roller bearing assembly. On the top of the inner flange you can see where the snap ring goes to hold this SKF bearing into the center hub in the China bearing. My guess with the China bearing that failed, it failed where the snap ring holds the bearing into the inner flange. Possibly the steel around the snap ring failed. It is not too thick there. eBearing uses a different system to hold the SKF bearing into the center flange which also fails under heavy side loads.

quote It is a double roller bearing assembly.

It's a dual row ball bearing. There are no rollers present.

When the bearing is heavily loaded, the races will be brinelled by the balls and will disintegrate if they're not made of pretty stern stuff. I suspect that's what separates the Chinese junk from the domestic units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinelling

Do you have any pictures of the hub flange/spindle? I bet the inner race on that is NOT integral... that design "feature" *SERIOUSLY* weakens the spindle.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-21-2011).]

Rodney:

So when are you gonna make your bearing?

Seriously? I know that you'd be able to sell them.
Nolan

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 06-21-2011).]

Rodney, thanks for sharing...

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fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. All original.

Anyone have any pictures of the eBearing taken apart? I would like to see how it is assembled. I'm guessing the China bearing is probably about equal to the eBearing and sufficient for 88 Fieros that are not used for racing.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

Rodney, care to share the housing ID on the disassembled bearing. Another member and I were looking at another bearing cartridge that would have needed the 88 housing bored a couple of mm. Just curious if this new housing was already the right bore.

The SKF 309726 DA bearing OD is 64 mm. The OD of the flange is 70 mm giving a 3 mm wall thickness.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

Have you considered using a BMW-style wheel bearing? They use sealed bearings that are pressed into exterior shells and then have spindles pressed into them. The bearings are very durable and reasonably compact.

Bump...

I have a set of E-Bearing front bearings on my 88 GT with 4.9. They have been in place for about 4 years and more than 20,000 miles. I don't autocross the car but I don't drive it gently either. No issues to date.

Rolland

Early October bump !

------------------
fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. All original.

food for thought:

http://www.skf.com/files/891104.pdf

bearing failures are becoming more and more prevelant for many markets, especially as the whole world is pushing manufacturing to "lean", favoring outsourcing, and usually results in manufacturing in Asia. Lttle industry regulation drives prices down, and lack of standards and patent/trademark enforcment makes counterfieting and reverse engineering the feasible business practice. MBA based engineering is changing the game. I dont trust timken bearing units anymore, they rebrand and sub-job there units. , A true SKF bearing has always worked as designed for me, coupled with qaulity hardware from fastenal.

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 12-20-2011).]

quote Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: food for thought: http://www.skf.com/files/891104.pdf bearing failures are becoming more and more prevelant for many markets, especially as the whole world is pushing manufacturing to "lean", favoring outsourcing, and usually results in manufacturing in Asia. Lttle industry regulation drives prices down, and lack of standards and patent/trademark enforcment makes counterfieting and reverse engineering the feasible business practice. MBA based engineering is changing the game. I dont trust timken bearing units anymore, they rebrand and sub-job there units. , A true SKF bearing has always worked as designed for me, coupled with qaulity hardware from fastenal.

Be careful about fastenal too. I bought some stainless nylock nuts & bolts there & they LOCKED UP before they even tightened down! Had to use two breaker bars to BREAK them to get them off (the big air impact wrench wouldn't touch them to back them off - & they were only 5/16 bolts). Probably made in china...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Be careful about fastenal too. I bought some stainless nylock nuts & bolts there & they LOCKED UP before they even tightened down! Had to use two breaker bars to BREAK them to get them off (the big air impact wrench wouldn't touch them to back them off - & they were only 5/16 bolts).

Stainless on stainless is not recommended. Prone to galling (as you found out first hand). I made that mistake myself once as well.

I'm no fan of Fastenal, but that one wasn't thier fault.

quote Originally posted by FTF Engineering: Stainless on stainless is not recommended. Prone to galling (as you found out first hand). I made that mistake myself once as well. I'm no fan of Fastenal, but that one wasn't thier fault.

Never had the problem before; I've used stainless a LOT in my 50 years of working on cars. Of course, I've always used made in U.S.A. bolts in the past. Now it seems either you can't find them or the store has no idea where they're made (or won't admit to it)...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Never had the problem before; I've used stainless a LOT in my 50 years of working on cars.

Yeah, I made that mistake once as well. I was replacing some hardware and figured "If stainless was good on one end, then stainless on both sides would be even better, right?"

Wrong. My experience was very similar to yours and after a little investigation, I found that it's actually quite common. Consider yourself either lucky or good that it hasn't happened to you in the past!

There's lots of info about galling online, but since we were talking about Fastenal... Here's a doc from them that warns about the risk of galling. "Stainless steel fasteners are particularly susceptible to thread galling".

http://www.fastenal.com/con...le%20-%20Galling.pdf

Not to say that it can't be done, but it usually takes some special precautions and lubricants, etc.

quote Originally posted by FTF Engineering: Yeah, I made that mistake once as well. I was replacing some hardware and figured "If stainless was good on one end, then stainless on both sides would be even better, right?" Wrong. My experience was very similar to yours and after a little investigation, I found that it's actually quite common. Consider yourself either lucky or good that it hasn't happened to you in the past! There's lots of info about galling online, but since we were talking about Fastenal... Here's a doc from them that warns about the risk of galling. "Stainless steel fasteners are particularly susceptible to thread galling". http://www.fastenal.com/con...le%20-%20Galling.pdf Not to say that it can't be done, but it usually takes some special precautions and lubricants, etc.

That's very interesting. But it seems that they're talking about galling as being something that usually occurs AFTER the nut is tightened down, making it unable to remove it. I never got the nut down to the mating surface before it LOCKED UP.
Things to note in that article:
- "Galling, often referred to as a cold-welding process, can occur when the surfaces of male and female threads are placed under heavy pressure." - There was no "heavy pressure". I didn't even get them to tighten down.
- "Use coarse threads with a 2A-2B fit instead of fine threads. Coarse threads have a larger thread allowance and are more tolerant to abuse during handling." - I was using course threads.
- "Heat contributes significantly to thread galling. Fastener installation alone generates friction and therefore heat. An increase in speed during installation increases the friction (heat) between the threads. Lowering the wrench speed during installation and removal can help avoid galling." - I was using a ratchet; there was no "speed" involved.
- "A smoother surface texture will lead to less frictional resistance. Rolled threads usually offer smoother surfaces than cut threads. As previously mentioned, friction increases the possibility of galling." - I'm sure all the chinese bolts we're getting are cut threads.
I still contend it was cheap chinese-made bolts that were the CAUSE of the problem. I DO know that the aircraft industry quit using chinese made fasteners DECADES ago because they were not the grade marked on them. Just one more reason to buy MADE IN U.S.A. products whenever you can.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

China scorecard:
1) Bolts not up to grade. The *aircraft* industry had several failures because they were marked a higher grade than they were. They no longer use imported bolts.
2) Poison pet food.
3) Poison pet food - again.
4) Tires that blow out.
5) Poison toothpaste. Contains the same toxic that's found in anti-freeze.
6) More poison toothpaste. Import of toothpaste was banned from china so they combined it with toothbrushes so that it could be imported as "toothbrushes", to get rid of the poison toothpaste!
7) Toys made of lead. Imported by Mattel.
8) Toys with lead paint & small magnets that can kill children if swallowed. Imported by Fisher Price.
9) Poison pet food - the third time.
10) Poison children's paint sets - sold at Toys R Us.
11) Bugs in candy bars.
12) More (nearly a million recalled) Mattel toys with lead paint.
13) Flip-Flops at wallmart that cause a rash.
14) 1 million baby cribs recalled after 3 children die.
15) About 1.5 million Thomas the tank engine toys.
16) "Play Yards" with strings that strangle children.
17) Happy Giddy Garden toys that - you guessed it - contain lead.
18) Purple haloween pails from Dollar Stores that contain lead.
19) Disney Winnie the Pooh dolls that contain lead.
20) Bead kits that contain lead.
21) 500,000 KB toys wooden blocks that contain lead.
22) Baby Einstien toys that contain lead.
23) "Discover & Play" blocks that contain lead.
24) 1.5 MILLION Cub Scouts "Totem" badges that contain lead.
25) Levels that are NOT LEVEL! Try building a house with that!!!
26) Recall of certain children's items due to a lead exposure risk or entrapment/suffocation/choking hazard. The products include Halloween-themed baskets, children's jewelry, shaving paint brushes, pencil pouches, Boppy pillow slipcovers, flashing pacifiers, and storage racks with canvas totes.
27) COUNTERFEIT smoke detectors! Wonder how many folks have BURNED TO DEATH because of them?
28) You can add chain block that give while lifting a Fiero too. Lucky i wasn't under. Capacity was 2 tons, guy at the store told me that it wasn't meant to lift car. Two tons of car or two tons of S--- what's the difference I answered him. Thing was brand new. - Robert 2 on PFF
29) Toxic lead replaced by even more toxic cadmium in children's toys, trinkets.
30) I needed some lug nuts for mag wheels & couldn't find any that fit. we started checking the sizes & the lug bolts with the SAME PART # in the SAME BOX (made by Dorman in china) had sleeves that were 17.34 MM, 17.24 MM, & 17.18 MM!
31) Children's car seats made with CLORIENE & LEAD.
32) Arsenic in Chinese apple juice.
33) My neice had a problem with her taillights blowing all the time. Took it to the dealership. Know what they told her? "Yeah it's those chinese bulbs - just buy a box of them & keep them in your glovebox". WTF? Why not just buy QUALITY bulbs & quit buying china CRAP???
**) Hell there's so many on the news every night I can't write them down fast enough! FAR more than I've listed here.

I don't know how long it's going to take for everyone to realize that ALL the CRAP we're getting from china is COSTING US MORE IN LOST PRODUCTION TIME THAN THE LOW PRICES ARE SAVING US!!!! AND you're supporting a COMMUNIST REGIME that has the world's WORST human rights record & is BUILDING THEIR WAR MACHINE with OUR MONEY! AND you're killing OUR ECONOMY when you don't buy QUALITY made in the U.S. products.
Com'on everybody - WAKE UP!
Made in China: NOT gonna' buy ya'.
***
Comment from "SCCA Fiero": What's so bad about China? The current dictator is responsible for more deaths than Hitler and Stalin... combined! I guess genocide is cool. But at least they don't censor the internet, and China has freedom of the press... err, wait a minute. I might have my facts mixed up. But I'm almost positive China is not a Communist country, and China has excellent retirement and worker's comp. I'm just glad U.S. jobs are not going to China and the US does not owe China billions of dollars.
The US is going down the toilet and nobody cares because they can buy cheap crap that costs 1/2 of a U.S. made equivalent, but lasts 1/5 as long.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: I still contend it was cheap chinese-made bolts that were the CAUSE of the problem.

Haha! Nice story, but I still contend that it wasn't Fastenal's or China's fault on this one.

Did you see the picture of the stainless nylock nut in the lower right hand corner and the caption "Stainless steel prevailing torque locknuts are particularly susceptible to galling due to the friction caused during installation."

And the next page...

"Avoid prevailing torque locknuts. The most common stainless steel galling issue occurs with nylon insert lock nuts."

It's OK to learn something new, even if you have been doing it for 50 years. Really... It's OK.

quote Originally posted by FTF Engineering: Haha! Nice story, but I still contend that it wasn't Fastenal's or China's fault on this one. Did you see the picture of the stainless nylock nut in the lower right hand corner and the caption "Stainless steel prevailing torque locknuts are particularly susceptible to galling due to the friction caused during installation." And the next page... "Avoid prevailing torque locknuts. The most common stainless steel galling issue occurs with nylon insert lock nuts." It's OK to learn something new, even if you have been doing it for 50 years. Really... It's OK.

I hope folks don't see this as an argument, but I think it bears further discussion.
I just think it's funny that I've never had the problem before, using nylock nuts made in the US. If there's a PROBLEM using nylock nuts that PREVENTS THE NUT FROM GOING ON THE BOLT & TIGHTENING DOWN, then they SHOULDN'T EVEN MAKE THEM.
I just wanted to warn others of the problem with china bolts. I'll stick with US made ones when I can determine that factor, & if they sell me china made crap I'll take it back & demand a refund.
I learn something new every day.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

Did they send you the wrong grade of stainless or something? Were the threads malformed?

If the material meets the correct spec for metallurgy and thread profile, then what does country of origin have to do with it?

Don't get me wrong... I'm not recommending "buy Chinese". I'm just saying that 18-8 on 18-8 from the US is going to suck just as bad as 18-8 on 18-8 from the other side of the globe. I'm thinking that you've been getting lucky and buying rolled threads by accident in the past, or maybe buying a harder grade of stainless in the past without even thinking about it.

I got to a ripe old age before the first time it happened to me too. I learned something that day... Not to do that again. I think I got about three quarters of the way installed before it started to feel a little funny, and when I changed direction to take it back off before it got too bad, it was all over. Unsalvageable.

quote Originally posted by FTF Engineering: Did they send you the wrong grade of stainless or something? Were the threads malformed? If the material meets the correct spec for metallurgy and thread profile, then what does country of origin have to do with it?

Threads looked fine. The problem with china made crap is it doesn't meet specs in the first place.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts