i own 1988 pontiac fiero gt 2.8L V-6...stock distributor....... I went to start my car this morning and it wont start and when in starting cycle it sounds like there is no spark to be had...I finally, after cleaning the points on the cap since they had white residue on them and the rotor since it had green oxidation on it, got the car started and it ran fine didnt miss any more than it did before, it didnt break up when getting on it, and it started like this 3 or 4 different times today, i finally try to start it again going to work and it doesnt start at all and im experienceing the same problem again this time i cant get it started at all .... i smell gas so its not a fuel related... i have new wires and a new ignition coil... my check engine light goes on when the ignition is on so its not the ECM... my tach moves a little when the ignition is on so its not my pick up coil even though my pick up coil is pretty old and decrepid.. i have feeling that my module finally went bad but im not positively sure..would that be a sign of my module going bad? any suggestions i need my car running asap.. thanks

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1988 Pontiac Fiero Gt (has every option available from that year including factory leather, 5-speed, and the rare T-Tops: Black w/ gray interior and blk wheels)
1992 GMC Typhoon #0203
1971Chevorlet Corvette 454cu/ LS5/ 4-speed/ convertible
1993 BMW 850 Ci 6-speed V-12

Does the tach move up to 200 rpm while cranking? If not you have a ignition problem.

So the ECM knows the engine is cranking from the ignition system. So if you loose the coil or ICM the injectors stop working. However the cold start injector squirts gas into the intake during the time you are cranking.


Do this test on the pick up coil. If the pick up coil passes the test bring the ICM to a parts store to have it tested.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-01-2011).]

well it moves from the dead 0 position to somewhere a hair past it..but i could be wrong since my tach is all messed up (possibly from my icm and tach filter)

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 12-29-2010).]

Sounds like ignition problems. Test the stuff out and see if you can find the bad parts.

yeah i guess im gonna have to try tomorrow.. too bad advanced isnt open at 3 in the morning

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 12-29-2010).]

When I first bought my fiero, I had the exact same issue it sounds like. For me it was a blown distributor module. I put a new one in, and off I went. Im guessing it is the distributor module, but listen to phonedawgz as he will help you figure out the issue. He knows his stuff.

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86 2.8 gt

well my icm looks like my dog ate it and its not even white anymore its like a off yellow color... i hope thats not it cause a module is hell of alot easier to replace...

That's why I have a lizard.

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86 2.8 gt

Yours should look something like this: It's my spare


So you think it must be the ICM and not that decrepit pick up coil eh?

eh, I know what you hope What is it that you REALLY think is bad?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-01-2011).]

so i go to advanced auto parts today to get the ignition module checked and they tell me that they dont check modules anymore... so i ask him if i could buy a module and return it if it doesnt work and he says that we cant do that for electrical items... completely useless i know... i finally get the guy to allow me to return it tonight at 9 if it doesnt work... i bought a BWD ignition module for an arm and a leg ($50) installed it with dioelectrical synthetic grease underneath it and it starts fine.... i start it again in 5 minutes and i have the same problem again it wont start... i finally get it running and after 30 secs of idling it dies again... i start it again after trying for 5 secs and it runs than dies as soon as i start to let the clutch out.... ok so i wait about another 5 minutes and it starts up after a few times of trying and it runs.... i drove it around the block and it runs like it did before... i finally drove it to my dads house so if it dies again i could fix it there since he has every tool in the world and a timing light and it runs fine... i shut it off and start it 5 times over again and it starts first try after 1 sec and runs.... now thats fine and dandy and all but it did this to me yesterday and ran fine than it decided to not run... but my question now is that will the ignition module take time to learn the car would be the reason it was doing what it was doing earlier stated or is that just in my head..? phonedawgs what i think it is now is my pick up coil thats bad along with my previous ignition module........... but my tach moves to 200 rpms when starting if that means anything?

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 12-29-2010).]

Well I am suspected the pick up coil ever since you said it looked bad. It's kinda like, "well how bad do you want it to work?" Cause when you look at a bad looking part that will strand you on the road, and you leave it in your car, well it's asking to have troubles.

You have to pull the dist to replace it. Search buddycraigg on youtube and he has videos of pulling it, replacing the coil, retiming it.

Does the tach seem to quite along with the engine dieing? The engine sounds like it's dieing enough to see that now. If the tach is always doing what it's supposed to, well that points away from the pick up coil. If the tach drops out and the engine stops firing at the same time, and the tach is at zero while the engine is still turning, well that really points to the coil since you replaced the ICM.

How long does it take to learn the ICM? Nothing is learned by the ICM. The ECM sets the timing as programmed in it as read by the sensors. There is no 'feed back' look on the ignition on the Fiero. To have "learn time" there has to be something the ECM monitors to learn something. The only thing that even comes close is the o2 sensor but thats about the fuel/air ratio. Yes the ECM adjusts the timing but just does it in an open loop format. It just does it how the ECM is programmed. It has no way of checking if it's advanced too little or too much. You would need a knock sensor to do that. A newer ECM would have one. Not the Fiero however.

So how long after installing the ICM should you be good to go? right away. -no learn time.

i figured it too.. i just thought i might as well replace the icm anyways and see if that temporarily fixes the problem since i would kind of have to if i replaced the pick up coil.. they normally should be replaced in pairs as people tell me...well that would pretty much be the last thing to replace ignition wise anyways... now in the midst of replacing the pick up coil i want to get all that rust off the fingers... what did you use on yours.... is there an acid dip or could i use a CLR to dip it in so all i would have to do is minimal scrubbing and not compromise the metal..

Carb cleaner on the aluminum. Acid on the steel stator. Wire wheel on the rotot and shaft.

The acid causes hydrogen embrittlement. It really doesn't eat the metal when used for a reasonable time. The hydrogen embrittlment would be an issue for a part that is of hardened steel and is under force. ie - Don't use it for a high stress hanger or something like your coil springs. Something like a steel alternator bracket, or for sure this part? Yep - the small change in the metal won't make any difference. Brush off any loose rust before you start with a wire wheel. Then I like to soak it for a while and then clean it up and then re-soak it. That way I am keeping it out of the acid as much as possible. The acid will dissolve the rust, but also just loosen it. So for places where the rust is thicker the brush, dip, brush, dip gets through the flakey rust the fastest.

Rust pits can be filled with primer putty if you are going to paint the part. One thing that is super cool though is how the rounded rusted flaky edges melt away to reveal sharp new looking metal underneath. Sometimes you find stampings under the rust you didn't know were there. You have to clean the acid off with water when you are done. If you don't paint or oil the parts right after you de-rust them they will rust overnight. Yep - even bone dry they will.

I clear coated everything after it was cleaned up.

You can also paint the aluminum, aluminum colored paint. I think it's more durable than the clear coat. Yeah I know it sounds foolish to clean up a piece of aluminum, and then paint it aluminum. That IS the most durable way to keep the aluminum from looking nasty fast again.

You can also paint the steel a steel gray color if you want.

Before

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-01-2011).]

ok got it thanks... good tip on the o-ring would have never thought of it...will post progress tomorrow

If you still have the problem take a close look at the rotor and the distributor cap. I once had (on the same car) a similar problem first I discovered the melted tab on the rotor was cracked and was allowing the metal contact to shift positions not allowing electrical contact. I replaced it and it worked for a couple of days and the problem returned. I then was pulling out my hair as everything else was good or at least appeared so. As it turned out the spring in the cap for the coil wire contact was broken allowing intermintant contact resulting in sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Replaced the cap and all is good, problem solved.

the cap and rotor have about a few thousand miles on them the rotor has alittle bit of tarnish on it but not bad the cap is pitted kind of bad but when the car would run it ran fine with alittle miss which i can deal with later... the spring on the center point on the cap still moves up and down ok and the connector is tight.. but thanks for the info though... i did go and check it anyways to find that these areas that you mentioned were ok thanks for the tips on the cap and rotor... im actually in the process of rebuilding the distributor right now..

No - It won't do any good. It will collect dirt.

Put some on the on the electrical connectors of the pick up coil. Put thermal paste (not dielectric grease) under the ICM.

alright i got everything cleaned and rust free and i have the new pick up coil that came with two clips now on my old one there was only one clip and in the video buddy craigg only installs the square clip...where does the circle clip go?

Ues either the circle clip or the square clip - which ever matches your old one.

she is a runner as of 12:19am... now i have a timing question to make sure it is my timing light and not me... two wires come out of the bottom of the timing light.. one for power and the other to the #1 spark plug.. where would the best place to attach it be directly to the insulated wire or to the cap end or to the plug end?

Whichever works the easist.

Make sure you have A-B jumpered and the SES light IS flashing while you are setting the timing

yeah never mind it my timing light is one that has to be connected to bare medal so i have to get my buddy's timing light tomorrow that is a wire inductive timing light... one more question though i dont know if this was unique to the fieros or not right next to the arches with the numbers on them on the closer side to top dead center is a n open cylinder.. now do i time the car to the 10 degree mark left center or does that open cylinder have something to do with the timing of the car.. its not in the craigg video from what i see just wanted to know what that was...

In your mind turn the crankshaft clockwise till the crankshaft key lines up with the tube. When that happens you will notice the groove in the balancer will line up with the 0 mark. The tube lines up with the #1 cylinder and was used at the factory for setting the timing.

So you use the balancer line, and the 10* notch.

My inductive light stopped working but I use my direct connect spring on the spark plug light and it works for me.

Not on the inductive light. Don't dial in any advance on the light since you are going to use the timing indicator. If you were to want to really use the dial in advance on the light, then you would use the 0 mark on the timing indicator. I know it gets confusing. So the easy thing is just not to dial in adavance on the light and set it like they did in 86 with the indicator.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-01-2011).]

ahh i got what thats for now... yeah she runs and timed her today to ten degrees left of center.. it feels alittle peppy now too.. thanks for answering the 500,000 questions i had lol you guys are the best