I was looking to buy a welder for making motor mounts, brackets, etc. for engine swaps.

I tried welding about 30 yrs ago but never really learned how. I was considering, maybe, a
wire welder such as:
http://www.harborfreight.co...ux-welder-93793.html

I can solder pretty well and was going to get some metal to practice on first.

I plan on using my air-cutting tool to get metal pieces for mounts in the required shapes
and will use the welder just for welding pieces together.


What kind of welder would be best for this/easiest to use?

I already wired my garage for 220V.

[This message has been edited by pdemondo (edited 12-09-2010).]

I did about 80% of my project with a Lincoln 115 using flux wire, very similar to what you linked. Later, I added gas and finished the project with MIG. Practice a bit first and then go to town on it! I am not sure if anyone would ride in my car if they saw my welds but I figure I am ok to risk my own life...

Charlie

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: I did about 80% of my project with a Lincoln 115 using flux wire, very similar to what you linked. Later, I added gas and finished the project with MIG. Practice a bit first and then go to town on it! I am not sure if anyone would ride in my car if they saw my welds but I figure I am ok to risk my own life... Charlie

Hey Charley


That makes sense. The welds don't necessarily have to be pretty to hold. What thickness of
steel did you use? Why did you wind up getting a MIG, as opposed to just using the wire welder for
all of it?


I met you at the Fiero meet we had a couple of years back going at Mt. Lemon, my son and
I drove up there in an 88 burgundy t-top.

I have been following your build thread. I am hoping to see your Northstar at one of
our upcoming meets.

I have a 98 ETC Northstar with 8000 miles on it.
I promised my son he can use it for his Fiero. Still got a couple of projects ahead of that one.
I will probably send you a PM when I get ready to make mounts for the Northstar with
some specific questions.

I think you are on the right track. A MIG welder is very handy. I am not sure of the quality of the Harbor Freight welders and you should add the cost of the kit they sell to use gas instead of flux core wire.

I used my 10 year + old Hobart Hanlder 120 volt welder. Here are a couple of links on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobart-...&hash=item255f74eddf
http://cgi.ebay.com/FREE-SH...&hash=item5adde00469

Very versital machine and you can get parts such as tips, etc at many welding stores.

HAHA Welders. if anyone knew what welder I used they'd think I was crazy.
It started out as a almost new MIG 80 from .... WALMART. The torch was ALWAYS HOT which is something I do not like when using a MIG one touch of the wire and you get to spend the next few minutes freeing it from the tip. So in goes a small power converter a relay and a FORD fender mount Starter Solenoid to control when the torch gets it's power. Then this dang thing won't run very long without over heating so in goes the fans... Then bigger fans... Then the "Turbo Fan" This thing is so Frankenstein it's funny, but you know what it works and works good. It can burn an arc for over 5 mins straight before it gets hot enough to not want to push it. 3-5 minute cool down and back at it it goes. The torch handle doesn't have much in the way of heat shielding so it's been rebuilt a few times. I've burned up to 5/16 with it running 030 flux core. Just remember when you're running low power.... Run it HOT. it'll heat the steel to help penetrate.

quote Originally posted by pdemondo: I was looking to buy a welder for making motor mounts, brackets, etc. for engine swaps. I tried welding about 30 yrs ago but never really learned how. I was considering, maybe, a wire welder such as: http://www.harborfreight.co...ux-welder-93793.html

That's a piece of crap. But you're on the right track. Buy a mig, but buy a quality one & make sure you hook up the gas. It'll be the easiest welding you've ever done, with just a little practice. If you can't afford a new (quality) one, find a used one. Buying a cheap china made POS will only aggravate you.
If the ONLY thing you're going to is motor mounts on one car, get someone else to do the welding - but it sounds like you have a lot of uses for a good welder.
HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

You really need to watch some videos, ask someone who knows how to weld some questions. The easiest welder to learn on is a GAS Mig welder. Flux core is not really all that great for beginners, it tends to make snotty globby welds IF you don't know the principals of welding well enough. Flux Core is one of the cheapest methods of welding (Arc welding can be cheaper, but is REALLY not for beginners) so a lot of people attempt to start out with it, and wind up with welds that look terrible, and get frustrated with it. It's hard to convince a beginner to get a gas mig to start and learn on because its a bit more expensive. Im glad that you are considering a gas welder for your first.

That being said, in my opinion, the difference between a beginner, and someone that is good at welding, is that the person that is good at it knows what they have done wrong when a weld looks less then desirable. There is a fairly important list of things that need to be understood when welding. A beginner's welds will look bad, but they will have little idea of why its bad.

Welder settings:
Power setting
Wire speed
Stickout (wire length from the tip)
Shielding gas

General gun techniques:
Heat flow
Stitching
Gun angles
Direction

I believe you need to have an understanding all these concepts before you ever touch the welder. There are plenty of YouTube videos that will help you.

Also, before you ever touch your welder to a piece of metal that you will need to hold an engine, you need to practice, Practice PRACTICE! on a LOT of scrap metal, and have someone knowledgeable observe, and give advice till you've got your technique worked out.

Good luck,

If you want to learn it take a course at the tech school. It will take less time and money than just wondering around in the dark by yourself and having your welds come apart since they didn't have any penetration. You want to be able to make good looking welds not because you want people to think you know what your doing, but because good looking welds are the ones that actually hold.

If it looks like a bird pooped on it, it will hold like a bird pooped on it.

Here's what I use - it's 110. It works great - been welding with it for about 8 years now. I use Flux cored and Gas. Fux cored works great if your material is "clean". No rust, paint, grease, etc. Using an "Anti Splatter" spray helps keep the splatter from sticking - makes it easier to clean up the weld. MIG (gas) is way more forgiving. Like said above, watch some video's, read some books and practice. I have been "recreational" welding for 20 plus years. Started out with a 220 volt Lincoln stick welder. I have good days and bad days. It's all about knowing the steel, machine, wire and being able to recognize when things go wrong. I recently picked up a "Aluminum" welding kit for my little Lincoln and will start working on some aluminum projects. For 300.00 to 400.00 you can buy a decent Lincoln wire welder at Home Depot or Lowes. Buy the best equipment you can afford! Good Luck!



Pat

Flux core is fine for a beginner and works quite well on the metal thicknesses most commoning used for mounts (1/8" to 1/4") and the stock fiero cradle.

Most beginners do not run enough heat and/or move around too fast... this produces globby welds. My advice to any new welder...

Step 1: Inside the welder there will be suggested settings based on material and thicknesses. Set the welder 1 step hotter and the wire speed about 1/2 to 2/3 of the recommended range. This will increase the heat and give you a good chance for good penetration. You run the risk of burning through, but that is OK for now...
Step 2: You must be able to see what the weld pool is doing and ensure the bead is melting both parts. Shade setting and welding position are very important.
Step 3: Practice welding by pulling the gun away from the weld pool. This gives you very good visibility to the weld pool and you can see how the pool is flowing. For gas the say to push the weld, but pulling works too as long as you have the sheilding gas setup properly
Step 4: Inspect the weld looking for the signs of heat discoloration as a guage of good penetration.
Step 5; practice, practice, practice and find what works best for you. Heat range, wire speed, gun travel speed all are interrelated and you must find a balance that works well for you and your projects.

As for what welder, to some degree you get what you pay for and service/replacement parts will be important at some time. Check out your local industrial welding supply company and see what brands they carry and service. You do not need to buy the welder there, but if they only service Lincoln welders, then you might want to get a lincoln (new or used).

110V flux core welders can be used almost anywhere, inside and out with good results. The 220V welders are limited by the availabilty of 220v outlets and 220v extension cord, but they tend to have more settings and a higher duty cycle. Gas is really nice in general and great for materials under 16ga, but is best suited for indoors because wind can push the shielding gas to the side and expose the weld pool to contaminates. The higher end name brand welders tend to have more features and options for additional upgrades (like the aluminum welding kit).

My ProMig 175 (220V) was some of the best $$$ I ever spent and is one of my most used tools.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-09-2010).]

I would have to x2 the fluxcore suggestion that guru made.

I learned on fluxcore... although it is a bit more annoying not being able to go back over your welds without knocking flux off, it does burn a bit hotter and penetrate thicker steel better than gas welding, so it has applications.

As others have said, their little mig welders are a staple tool for them, and I can easily say the same. I keep a fresh gas supply, as well as a flux core reel on my 110v hobart mig cart year round, even though I have a $4000+ tig/arc welder.

Unless you are hurting for money you should get something that does ARC,MIG,TIG all in one. I have a decent MIG with gas and I still turn to the old buzz box A/C ARC welder for thicker gauge steel, just can't penetrate with as good with a MIG. There is some interesting units on eBay but I'm not sure on the quality. Getting something that runs on 220 will be more powerful and cheaper on the electric bill but its nice have the portability of the 110.

And x2 on a taking a welding class.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Funny this should come up; as I JUST bought a welder... I did quite a bit of research before I bought mine, I also asked a few buddies of mine who do welding as a living. Both the professionals said to get a 220 volt mig....

I ended up going with a Lincoln easy mig 140. The 140 is the largest 110v welder I could find. I wanted 110v so I could use it just about anywhere. After using it the past few days, I am VERY happy I went with the Lincoln and not some other cheapo-brand. I have welded 1/4" plates with no problem and also did some sheet metal tests as well, came out perfect...

I used the shielded and gas wire; both worked great. However, when using the gas, my welds look perfect. Shielded wire leaves allot of splatter but seems like it burns in deeper on 1/4" stock...

The only down side to the welder package I bought is the cheap welding mask they give you. Its hand held and make it difficult to get a steady, straight line... I have since bought the auto-darkening mask from Harbor Freight ($39.00 on sale) and it makes life so much easier! My welds look 10 x's better and I can use two hands to hold the tip steady and smooth...

After all my research and hunting for this Lincoln welder; Lowes had it for the best price (I thing $525.00). Plus you can go to the post office and get one of there "moving packs"; which has a 10% off Lowes coupon in it....

All in all, if I had to do it all over again, I would buy the same exact welder! BTW, I have never welded before; just watch some of the youtube videos and it got me pointed in the right direction...

Link to the welder I bought:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_256...gId=-1&storeId=10151

Traditionally the first thing you build with a new welder is a welder cart.


But yeah, it seems people think that welding is like a hot glue gun. It's not. As mentioned there are a lot of things to pay attention to which makes it harder than it looks. Take a class and practice practice practice!


I would post a pic of my welder but it would probably scare people. It's a transformer based buzz box with a bunch of stuff added for dcen, dcep, dc tig, and ac tig with HF. It's a work in progress so I don't use the tig side much.

quote Originally posted by Tuna Helper: Traditionally the first thing you build with a new welder is a welder cart.

HAHAHA.... Wow, your good... It was the first thing I built

quote Originally posted by pdemondo: Hey Charley That makes sense. The welds don't necessarily have to be pretty to hold. What thickness of steel did you use? Why did you wind up getting a MIG, as opposed to just using the wire welder for all of it? I met you at the Fiero meet we had a couple of years back going at Mt. Lemon, my son and I drove up there in an 88 burgundy t-top. I have been following your build thread. I am hoping to see your Northstar at one of our upcoming meets. I have a 98 ETC Northstar with 8000 miles on it. I promised my son he can use it for his Fiero. Still got a couple of projects ahead of that one. I will probably send you a PM when I get ready to make mounts for the Northstar with some specific questions.

Hi pdemondo,

I primarily used 1/4" steel that I found in a scrap yard. I cut it with my battery powered sawzall, drilled holes in it with my battery powered drill, ground on it with my trusty grinder and used the Lincoln 115 to melt it together. When I was practicing I would go for penetration and then try to beat the pieces apart with a sledge hammer. The welds held fine but the scrap metal got pretty bent up... We used the Flux wire because we did not have the cash to convert it to MIG at the time. Later we bought the conversion kit (around a hundred IIRC), got some gas and gave it a try. It took a bit more practice to get those welds working right. The Flux wire can penetrate better but you have to deal with the slag and spatter which can be a pita. The MIG welds don't penetrate quite as well but they are much cleaner and a lot less spatter to deal with.

I apologize for my bad memory... I remember you guys but I don't remember your names. That was the trip that I kept vapor-locking and stalling out. After I changed the fuel pump, all that went away...

I am just working on the body now, I was hoping by spring I would at least have the primer and the backside of the panels painted so I could put the body back on and then finish the paint...

Feel free to PM with questions anytime. The way I did it is just one of many so you definitely want to check the others before you decide how you want to go about it. If I had to do it again, I would try to use an automatic car to utilize all the power this thing will deliver. Either way you go I am sure your son will love it...

Charlie

until you have one you don't really understand, but a MIG welder is one of the most used and most universal tools in a shop, Just the other day i had to use mine to remove locking lug nuts form my sisters car because the previous owner didn't give us the key, you can use them to take out snapped off bolts and fix almost anything that is steel, and make anything you want.

As far as selection, if you are going to be fabricating parts like exhaust or sheet metal involving a lot of tack welds you want to have at least a 40% duty cycle, starting and stopping heats up a welder faster than you would think, and with MIG you don't have to stop because you don't run out of filler metal, so you can meet your limits fast. In my opinion Miller welder's are top dog, Lincoln is a close second, and they Hobart and ESAB are more unusual but still solid, and harder to get parts for, at least around here. I'm not sure about your budget, but if you can swing for a millermatic 212 there will be nothing you can't weld and nothing you can't make, and you might be able to find a used one for around $1000, If your about middle of the road i would say a millermatic 140, it's a good quality welder, that's portable, but it has limits you might find very quickly, and if you were looking for just an entry level welder i would try one from www.eastwood.com they appear to be decent quality, And if you wanted to do aluminum they have a package with a spool gun included for $500. And i just used millers for an example because that's what i know, but you can't go wrong with any of the big 4's equivalents.

As far as technique, just start with what the chart says and listen for a nice smooth sound with no crakling or popping sound, and get an auto darkening helmet, it helps a lot for beginners, and a great example of good penetration is on a piece of 18GA piece of metal you should not be able to tell which side the weld is actually on. And new millers also have an auto set feature that makes getting starting easy.

Excellent information. Thank you! I am keeping this bookmarked. I hope more people read this too and get the benefit of
the collective experience.

my 1st welder is a 110 lincon flux core welder i got at home depot.
when i did my 1st weld on some scrap metal. it was horrible! so much splatter and it didnt even penetrate much, i got it about 2 years ago. now i can weld up exhaust systems. i gotten to know my little welder quite well. im no pro at welding. but the more you use it. the better you get!

just start out by finding scrap metal around the house or garage. or even some old exhaust pipes if you have any laying around and just weld metal chunks to them.

one good helpfull tip. always wear welding goggles or helmet. one look at the welding light. you will be seeing bright dots for awhile. i was doing a quick weld to fix an exhaust leak and i was to lazy to run back in to get my welding helmet. so i got everything ready to start the small weld. i started a split second to fast before my eyes could close. and BAM! brightest thing ever! and dumbest thing ever to do. always wear welding goggles. i also heard stories of welders closing there eyes while welding and ended up having welding tans on there eye lids.

quote Originally posted by joshh44: i also heard stories of welders closing there eyes while welding and ended up having welding tans on there eye lids.

Your eye lids won't be the only part of your face tan lines...

Auto darkening helmet is the best thing you can buy for welding, okay soa good pair of leather welding gloves is a close second.

BTW, don't tell your neighbors you have a welder ("could you fix this for me") or you won't have time for any of your own projects.

Pick up somestrong welding magnets as well. it will make life quite a bit easier...

But I agree, an auto darkening welding helmet is a must! I just purchased the Harbor Freight helmet for $39.00 on sale; I would have paid $100 for it, I like it that much... It WILL make you a better welder...

I got a question for some of you experianced welders out there...

When welding 16ga exhaust primaries to 3/8 (or 5/16"; whatever stock 3800sc flanges are) head flanges, what would be the proper setting to use? Should I sent the welder for 16ga or 3/8"? How/where should I puddle the bead?

quote Originally posted by ALJR: When welding 16ga exhaust primaries to 3/8 (or 5/16"; whatever stock 3800sc flanges are) head flanges, what would be the proper setting to use? Should I sent the welder for 16ga or 3/8"? How/where should I puddle the bead?

All I can say is that was a fun experience... You will put most of your heat on the flanges and just enough on the primaries to get a decent puddle without blowing through. This is from a novice though. I would like to see what real welders advise. IIRC my setting was not quite as hot as I would use for the flange thickness but much hotter than I would use for the primaries. It also worked much better if the flange material was pre-heated.

Charlie

quote Originally posted by pdemondo: I was looking to buy a welder for making motor mounts, brackets, etc. for engine swaps. I tried welding about 30 yrs ago but never really learned how. I was considering, maybe, a wire welder such as: http://www.harborfreight.co...ux-welder-93793.html

It's all in the tune. You will not have much of a chance at a good welding bead if you don't tune the MIG unit in first.

Get a piece of scrap metal the thickness of what you'll be welding on, pick your heat setting, start your weld and adjust your speed until you hear a nice steady fizz.

I picked up a great Century unit on wheels from Sams club 15 yrs ago for the price of the Harbor Freight unit you linked to. I had a bunch of plans and no training but I could read and that was good enough.

In my opinion it was too easy to take a class on after following the tuning instructions. I used flux cored wire once and that was at the advice of a professional since I was welding on cast iron.

Get the gas and if you buy a 110v unit use .024 wire as the thicker wire tends to tax the 110 units more in my experience. Make sure it has a control knob for heat setting and wire speed. If you use an extension cord make sure it's a thicker gauge than the cord on the unit as poor current to the unit will affect your welding.

I see no problem with buying an inexpensive to moderately priced unit to start with unless you plan on using it quite a bit to justify the expense. You can always sell it and move up if necessary. The problem with the Harbor Freight models is availability of parts should you need them. If they are readily available that unit should work fine. My MIG is still going strong although it's a Century which I believe is a decent model or at least is performing like one.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 12-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALJR: HAHAHA.... Wow, your good... It was the first thing I built

1. It'll get your welder portable
2. You'll get some welding experience