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Do 4t60 and 4t65e share the same axles? by Alex4mula
Started on: 12-05-2010 06:14 PM
Replies: 15
Last post by: Alex4mula on 12-08-2010 04:47 PM
Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-05-2010 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Does anyone knows if the 4t60 (non electronic version) and 4t65e share the same axles? I may be getting a 4t65e and would like to know if the 60 and 65e share the same Fiero axles. Reason is I have a set of those already. And I know the E version is ECM controlled. Thanks.
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Report this Post12-06-2010 08:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
Yes.

the "HD" diff uses a larger spline on the passenger side, which would be an easy 10 minute swap with either the axle tripots, or going back to a normal 65e diff.
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Report this Post12-06-2010 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
What about the 4t60e..??
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-06-2010 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Yes.

the "HD" diff uses a larger spline on the passenger side, which would be an easy 10 minute swap with either the axle tripots, or going back to a normal 65e diff.


Thanks. That is good to know. It will make it easier for me either way.
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Report this Post12-06-2010 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
the 60, 60e, and 65e are all based on the same case design. The 65e is mostly just an upgraded 60e internally.
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post12-06-2010 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Does anyone knows if the 4t60 (non electronic version) and 4t65e share the same axles? I may be getting a 4t65e and would like to know if the 60 and 65e share the same Fiero axles. Reason is I have a set of those already. And I know the E version is ECM controlled. Thanks.


 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Yes.



NO!

All 4T65-E's, regardless if they are HD or not, have a roller bearing inside the transmission that the Driver's side inner tripot end rides in. 440T4's, 4T60's, and 4T60-E's do NOT have this bearing, and the CV inner tripod area where it installed into the transmission is machined differently. You should not try using a driver's side CV axle inner tripot that was made for a 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission. Look at the picture below to see the difference...



Trying to run the 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E driver's side inner tripot in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission will result in the CV tripot end not riding in the bearing (inside the 4T65-E transmission) correctly.

-ryan
------------------
7+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures...

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-06-2010).]

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-07-2010 07:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


NO!

All 4T65-E's, regardless if they are HD or not, have a roller bearing inside the transmission that the Driver's side inner tripot end rides in. 440T4's, 4T60's, and 4T60-E's do NOT have this bearing, and the CV inner tripod area where it installed into the transmission is machined differently. You should not try using a driver's side CV axle inner tripot that was made for a 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission. Look at the picture below to see the difference...
..
Trying to run the 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E driver's side inner tripot in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission will result in the CV tripot end not riding in the bearing (inside the 4T65-E transmission) correctly.

-ryan



So I guess if that tripod is changed to the correct one then lengthwise they will work? Tks
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post12-07-2010 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
So a TH125 axle is just lucky that it fits into a 65e?
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post12-07-2010 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

So a TH125 axle is just lucky that it fits into a 65e?


Go back and re-read the OP. The question was:

 
quote
Does anyone knows if the 4t60 (non electronic version) and 4t65e share the same axles? I may be getting a 4t65e and would like to know if the 60 and 65e share the same Fiero axles. Reason is I have a set of those already. And I know the E version is ECM controlled. Thanks.


To this YOU responded "YES" and you were WRONG.

I said if someone had a driver's side tripot from a 440T4, 4T60, or 4T60E - it would NOT work in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD.
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Report this Post12-07-2010 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:
So I guess if that tripod is changed to the correct one then lengthwise they will work? Tks


It might. If you look at the design of the tripots that insert into the driver's side of the trans, you'll notice the tripot for the 440T4/4T60/4T60E does not install into the transmission as deep as the 4T65E tripot; and the 440T4/4T60/4T60E tripot is also physically longer/deeper than what was used in the 4T65E. So if you currently have a driver's side CV axle made up for a 440T4/4T60/4T60E trans install into a Fiero and you want to use this axle with a 4T65E, you'll need to change the inner tripot end and then retake your measurements to make sure the tripot joint is riding deep enough in the inner tulip end once everything is installed.

-ryan
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-07-2010 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


It might. If you look at the design of the tripots that insert into the driver's side of the trans, you'll notice the tripot for the 440T4/4T60/4T60E does not install into the transmission as deep as the 4T65E tripot; and the 440T4/4T60/4T60E tripot is also physically longer/deeper than what was used in the 4T65E. So if you currently have a driver's side CV axle made up for a 440T4/4T60/4T60E trans install into a Fiero and you want to use this axle with a 4T65E, you'll need to change the inner tripot end and then retake your measurements to make sure the tripot joint is riding deep enough in the inner tulip end once everything is installed.

-ryan


Ok. Thank a lot again
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Report this Post12-08-2010 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


To this YOU responded "YES" and you were WRONG.

I said if someone had a driver's side tripot from a 440T4, 4T60, or 4T60E - it would NOT work in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD.


So, why does a TH125 axle work?
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Report this Post12-08-2010 12:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


So, why does a TH125 axle work?


I honestly never bothered trying one in a 65E. But I can tell you the TH125's driver's side axle won't plug into a 440T4/4T60/4T60E.

Still doesn't change the fact a driver's side axle from a 440T4/4T60/4T60E won't plug into a 4T65E tho.
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-08-2010 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Ok, I'm confused now. All this went towards the driver side. So what about the passenger side? Will that also won't work? Reading back it seems bottom line that neither axle side will work unless the ends (towards trany) are changed and then the length may not work too. I just need to know if these axles that I have can help for anything or if I need to start from scratch. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 12-08-2010).]

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Report this Post12-08-2010 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Ok, I'm confused now. All this went towards the driver side. So what about the passenger side? Will that also won't work? Reading back it seems bottom line that neither axle side will work unless the ends (towards trany) are changed and then the length may not work too. I just need to know if these axles that I have can help for anything or if I need to start from scratch. Thanks.



4T65-E HD transmissions used a larger size (diameter and spline) passenger side inner CV tripot vs. everything else. Non-HD 4T65-E, 440T4, 4T60, 4T60-E, Fiero manual transmissions, and I also think the 125-C all used the same size and spline passenger side CV axle inner tripot (the portion that installs into the transmission). LENGTH is what is different. 4T60E/4T65E will have the shortest length passenger side axle, 440T4/4T60 will be a little longer, 125-C will be longer yet, and Fiero manual transmissions will have the longest axles.

Basically, let me put it like this. If you already had a 440T4/4T60 trans in your car, and you are now installing a 4T65-E, you are probably going to need to start over from scratch and make a new set of axles.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-08-2010).]

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-08-2010 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


4T65-E HD transmissions used a larger size (diameter and spline) passenger side inner CV tripot vs. everything else. Non-HD 4T65-E, 440T4, 4T60, 4T60-E, Fiero manual transmissions, and I also think the 125-C all used the same size and spline passenger side CV axle inner tripot (the portion that installs into the transmission). LENGTH is what is different. 4T60E/4T65E will have the shortest length passenger side axle, 440T4/4T60 will be a little longer, 125-C will be longer yet, and Fiero manual transmissions will have the longest axles.

Basically, let me put it like this. If you already had a 440T4/4T60 trans in your car, and you are now installing a 4T65-E, you are probably going to need to start over from scratch and make a new set of axles.



Ok. This clarifies it nicely. I have a spare set of axles from the 4t60 that I never installed in my yellow car (went to 5 speed). As I mentioned in another thread I need to buy a transmission for the 3800sc swap I am doing on my new GT. I may get a 4t65e or a 4t65e-hd depending on the price and what I can find locally. That will dictate the rest of the swap (ECM, wiring,e tc.). If these axles were a fit for the 4t65e then I would narrow my search for that trany. Now basically I am open to anything again. Thanks again for tech help
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