Ok, my rear brake pads are in dire need of replacing. Since I don't have a garage where I can work on my car and since we used to have a shop specialized in Fieros, I hardly ever did any repairs to my Fiero myself. But now I have to do all repairs myself since that shop is no longer around. Problem is, I still don't have a garage nor a driveway so no matter what I do, the car has to be back together at the end of the day since I'm doing the repairs on a public road.

I'm sure most of you can replace the brake pads of your Fiero with your eyes closed and one arm tied behind your back, but it's something I've never done before. I'm a programmer, not a mechanic. And like I said, I must be able to do this within a few hours because no matter what, the car must be drivable again at the end of the day. So a good preparation is in order. I think I have a pretty good idea what needs to be done:

1. Loosen the equalizer at the middle of the e-Brake cable.
   
2. Remove parking brake cable and return spring from parking brake lever
   
3. Remove two torx mounting bolts
   
4. Slide caliper off and use some kind of wire hook to hang caliper from the suspension to avoid damaging brake hose
   
5. Remove brake pads
   
6. Remove locking nut and lever
   
7. Compress the piston using a C-Clamp, covering the actuator screw
   
8. Install new pads (I have the correct ones from the Fiero Store with the clips etc)
   
9. Install caliper
   
10. Rotate actuator screw until it locks (counter clockwise for passenger side, clockwise for driver side)
    
11. Install lever as close to the stop as possible
    
12. Install locking nut
    
13. Install parking brake spring and cable
    
14. Do the same thing for the other caliper
    
15. Tighten the equalizer until on of the levers starts to move.
    
16. Do the "press pedal and work handbrake lever" for final adjustment.

So does that sound about right?

A few questions:

1. At step 5 above, how easy is it to remove the pads? Do I need special tools or just a big flathead screwdriver to pry them loose?
   
2. At step 8 above, how easy is it to install the pads? Do I need special tools for that?
   
3. Do I need to grease anything after, before or during?
   
4. Anything else I need to look out for?

You have it pretty much all in your list. The pads simply pop off with your fingers and re-install the same way. You may just want to buy some squeal-stop and apply it to the back of the pads to help prevent brake squeal.

The other tool which is a must is either a big c-clamp or brake compressor. They are about $8.00 at the local parts store. You will have to compress the cylinder back into the caliper to fit the new pads on the car.

Edit to add.....I see you already have the c-clamp

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 10-24-2010).]

yea cliff you will have no problem,,brakes are really easy, i just did mine and couldnt believe how easy it was,,,i do very basic mechanic work,but if you can use a wheel wrench and a few small hand toolz its easy,,,dont sweat it>>>> 123

A big C clamp to compress the piston, however, while it is apart, do the calipers need rebuilding or replacing?

Worth a thought. I found the pads sometimes don't like to go in. You will want to perhaps have a wire brush bit for your drill to clean up the races.

Do one side complete at a time, and don't pull both at the same time. You should be ok.

Arn

..The rear brakes are NOT easy ,sometimes every thing goes smoothly,do not count on this..
before ,the day you do this ,,check to make sure you have torx bolts holding the caliper ,, make sure if you have Hex (allen) or Torx.
sometimes you have to remove E brake cable bracket it is normally very tight.it is a torx
on 84 to 87
Loosen the E-brake the nite before makes it easier to remove cables
1= loosen the 2 caliper holding bolts to make sure they will come off,,many mechanics Tighten these as tight as possible..If torx check to make sure your torx tines are straight,,use a 1/2 inch breaker bar to break torx free do thisthe nitebefore ,loosen then retighten so they are easy to loosen
2=have at least one extra Pad inner retaining clip,the clips(or spring clip) can get damaged probably difficult to find in Holland.
3= If the Pads are worn ,you should loosen the e brake actuator lever, care full pressing on caliper piston,when the nut is still on ,,DO NOT use a lot of C clamp pressure on the piston easy to damage
cleaning the rotor as well as possible will give better braking I remove scum,oil then lightly sand them
4 have if possible an experienced assistant to bleed brakes if you have to remove actuator lever nut
5=have a block or something you can lay the caliper on ,,
6 before install check pads for pad matrial on area where clip goes

you can use a piece of cardboard between the Pads to separate pads and hold clip in place ,,as rotor enters caliper you remove cardboard thru the caliper hole.. you will understand
..I have done many of these ,none were easy..

edit ,,there is a small clear plastic washer behind the actuator rubber washer ,difficult to see if it falls

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 10-24-2010).]

There are two ways to go about this. One way involves disassembling the e-brake hardware from the calipers, so you can compress the pistons with a clamp. The other involves using a special tool to turn the pistons in the calipers to retract them, saving you the trouble of messing with the e-brake hardware. IMO, the second method will leave you with more sanity when the job is done.

I don't think you need to do anything with the e-brake equalizer, unless you want to adjust the parking brake.

One final note: if you do decide to disassemble the e-brake hardware, remember that after you re-install the calipers, you need to mash the brake pedal a few times BEFORE re-attaching the e-brake levers to the calipers.

Best of luck!

If it's an 88, you will need to drive the 2 spring roll pins out of the outer caliper half. I do this on the car then remove the 2 - 18mm? bolts that hold the 2 caliper halves together, pull the outer half off then remove the rotor, remove the inner pad, work the piston back into the bore and reverse. Sometimes it is easier to "spin" the piston in with a caliper piston tool or a spanner wrench - most auto parts stores carry them and they are relatively inexpensive.

Regardless of the year, PB blaster or some type of penetrant oil is your firend a few days ahead of the work. Use care when dealing with the Torx Bolts - they can strip easily.

If you have enough slack in your ebrake cable, it is possible to remove the cable end and spring at the caliper without taking the cable apart at the adjuster. I use a large pair of adjustable pliers, rock the cable out of the notch in the ebrake arm and then use a screwdriver to pop the spring out. Putting the spring back in can be done by hand - but I use a "door spring compressor" then rock the cable end back into the slot.

The psirton will sit virtually flush with the caliper bore when it is all the way in. I use a 2" x 4" piece of flat iron against the piston - between the c camp and the piston and palce a socket over the ebrake bolt - go slowly!

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 10-24-2010).]

quote Originally posted by katatak: If it's an 88, you will need to drive the 2 spring roll pins out of the outer caliper half. I do this on the car then remove the 2 - 18mm? bolts that hold the 2 caliper halves together, pull the outer half off then remove the rotor, remove the inner pad, work the piston back into the bore and reverse. Sometimes it is easier to "spin" the piston in with a caliper piston tool or a spanner wrench - most auto parts stores carry them and they are relatively inexpensive. Regardless of the year, PB blaster or some type of penetrant oil is your firend a few days ahead of the work. Use care when dealing with the Torx Bolts - they can strip easily. If you have enough slack in your ebrake cable, it is possible to remove the cable end and spring at the caliper without taking the cable apart at the adjuster. I use a large pair of adjustable pliers, rock the cable out of the notch in the ebrake arm and then use a screwdriver to pop the spring out. Putting the spring back in can be done by hand - but I use a "door spring compressor" then rock the cable end back into the slot. The psirton will sit virtually flush with the caliper bore when it is all the way in. I use a 2" x 4" piece of flat iron against the piston - between the c camp and the piston and palce a socket over the ebrake bolt - go slowly! Pat

Pat is correct, pre 88's are a little bit different than the ones on an 88s.

And if you run into a problem, just put the wheels back on untill the next repair visit. Just do not touch the brakes with the calipers removed.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 10-24-2010).]

The special tool to turn the pistons is not a good idea. For one, unless you are careful, you can tear the boot. More importantly, it may not work. I have taken the pistons apart and there is a significant number of parts inside to provide the adjustment function for the ebrake. Since there is no ratchet on the inside, the whole inner mechanism (the adjusting screw and the piece it screws into) may spin and the piston will not retract. If you are lucky the inner piston like part will remain fixed, and the adjusting screw will screw in, retracting the outer piston. It has been my experience that the special tool works about half the time and it is often very difficult to turn. GM recommends the approach using a c-clamp that you have documented above.

If for some reason you have to remove the brake hose from the caliper, be warned that the spec in the 86 GM shop manual has the wrong torque spec (15 ft lbs). I had a terrible time with leaks on one caliper only to find that the correct torque spec is 24 ft lbs which is documented in the GM brake recall notice. By the way, the GM manual shows 30 ft lbs for the front (same type of connection) and the Haynes manual calls out somewhere between 25-30 for the rear.

If you decide to rebuild the calipers, I would not recommend taking the piston assembly apart because (1) you have to distort the pressed sheet metal retainer to get it apart, and (2) there are inner seals which do not come with rebuild kits.

Jim

quote Originally posted by bowrapennocks: The special tool to turn the pistons is not a good idea. For one, unless you are careful, you can tear the boot. Jim

I often thought about that but never have said anything. I'm glad someone had my same concerns.

And I'll add my 2 cents. Yes there is a tool to turn the piston to screw it in. I have use these before but if the outer piston seal does not slip on the piston it can rip the seal so I tend to avoid this method.

I also remove the ebrake lever but sometimes the piston still does not push in so I use the c-clamp off to the side of the ebrake screw and alternate tightening the c-clamp and turning the ebrake adjuster so that the piston goes in.

As said, under the lever watch that you don't loose the rubber seal and plastic washer.

Also you will see four dips in the face of the piston. These have to be at a right angle to the caliper so that the dimples on the back of the pad fits into them If they are off then the pad will not seat all the way.

I don't mess with the adjuster. I just compress the spring with a door spring compressor then grab the end of the brake cable with a pliers and slip it out of the lever. The spring compressor comes in very handy when doing the brakes as well as doors.
http://www.harborfreight.co...ring-tool-95344.html

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 10-24-2010).]

I'm with Didgerunner on the. I had to rebuild my calipers but unless this is a requirement, you should olny have to detach the e-brake cable and follow the steps laid out. It wasn't too difficult and with the exception of the spring compressor that Dodgerunner mentioned, basic tools are theonly thing required. The compressor is a luxury (but extremely useful!) that can make the job easier but not required.

Good luck and remember, the first step of being a mechanic is turning that first wrench. You can do it. You'll be amazed at how easy it actually is and wonder why you didn't do some of the easier maintenance of your wonderful toy before.

~Trevor

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: I don't mess with the adjuster. I just compress the spring with a door spring compressor then grab the end of the brake cable with a pliers and slip it out of the lever. The spring compressor comes in very handy when doing the brakes as well as doors.

I agree 100%! The door spring compressor is the handiest Fiero brake service tool I own.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-25-2010).]

Why wouldn't I loosen the equalizer? It's going to need adjustment anyway, right?

As for turning the piston to retract it, I was under the impression only pistons from the 88 brakes should be rotated and for pre-88 brakes the pistons need to be compressed (since you can pretty much ruin your caliper if something goes wrong or seals don't slip).

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Why wouldn't I loosen the equalizer? It's going to need adjustment anyway, right? As for turning the piston to retract it, I was under the impression only pistons from the 88 brakes should be rotated and for pre-88 brakes the pistons need to be compressed (since you can pretty much ruin your caliper if something goes wrong or seals don't slip).

I know pre 88's can be compressed. I'v been doing that on every fiero i own and it have never givin me a problem. all you need is a C clamp and your old pad. You can figure out what to do with them (self explanitory)

Not to rain on your parade Cliff, but Murphy's law always gets me in situations like this. If I am in no hurry, and have the garage, and the car does not need to be done at any certain time, everything seems to go well. Now if I had to do this on the side of the road, and hoped for a smooth outcome, it would not go so well for me!
Myself, I have used the tool to just screw the pistons back in two times, and had no problem. One time I did the remove the lever, used the clamp and a socket, and it went well also. Can't say one way was any better then the other, but yes you do want to make sure the piston slides in the boot while turning to avoid tearing the seal when using the special tool.

Kevin

Agreeing with Kevin on the 'Murphy's Law' statement.

Just did all my brakes recently, and you kind of have to approach the per-wheel rear brake replacement as a new task/challenge and hope you have the right tools for it. I did find that my piston tool didn't exactly fit inside of the piston notches. I had to apply leverage against the calliper outer arm to keep the tool in-place while turning the piston back in (slowly to keep from getting too excited and ripping the rubber boot around the piston). Found it easier too to just get the e-brake lever arm out of the way while attempting to put the piston back in.

As for the e-brake spring, I used about 10 plastic wire-ties to compress it enough to slip it off the e-brake arm. But LOVE the door spring compressor idea (why didn't I think of that?!?)! Going to get one to put into my tool arsenal. Thanks Dodgerunner/Marvin!

After all is said and done, press on your brakes and pull your e-brake a few times so that it will twist back out for correct tension/pressure against the rotor before you move anywhere. I've backed out of my garage without making sure the brakes were tensioned/pressurized enough and almost couldn't get the car stopped (which across the street is another house).

Good luck, Cliff!

------------------
* 1984 Black Fiero SE (1995-1998) blown tranny - rest her soul
* 1988 Black Fiero Formula (2001-2004) Was to be a 3800SC, badly rusted rear frame.
* 1988 White Fiero GT (2009 - Present) This one's a keeper!

I had to use the special tool on mine after trying a c clamp. I did the job in the parking garage at my work and had to explain to the security guard what I was up to, but the job went well and I was counting on being able to use the car right away too. Good luck. It's not difficult.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 10-25-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Why wouldn't I loosen the equalizer? It's going to need adjustment anyway, right?

Adjusting the equalizer just removes the slack from the e-brake cables. If it is properly adjusted now, it won't need adjustment after you're through. As Dodgerunner stated, using the door spring compressor you can just take a pair of pliers and disengage the cable end from the actuator arm on the caliper once the spring is compressed. I have only used this method myself on '88s, but I presume that it would be similar on earlier years.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Loosen the equalizer at the middle of the e-Brake cable. Remove parking brake cable and return spring from parking brake lever Remove two torx mounting bolts Slide caliper off and use some kind of wire hook to hang caliper from the suspension to avoid damaging brake hose Remove brake pads Remove locking nut and lever Compress the piston using a C-Clamp, covering the actuator screw Install new pads (I have the correct ones from the Fiero Store with the clips etc) Install caliper Rotate actuator screw until it locks (counter clockwise for passenger side, clockwise for driver side) Install lever as close to the stop as possible Install locking nut Install parking brake spring and cable Do the same thing for the other caliper Tighten the equalizer until on of the levers starts to move. Do the "press pedal and work handbrake lever" for final adjustment. So does that sound about right? A few questions: At step 5 above, how easy is it to remove the pads? Do I need special tools or just a big flathead screwdriver to pry them loose? At step 8 above, how easy is it to install the pads? Do I need special tools for that? Do I need to grease anything after, before or during? Anything else I need to look out for?

Cliff, do it like this and you will avoid unnecessary work:

#1) not necessary as this is already adjusted for the cable in use, if the e-brake works now it will work fine after new pads are installed and no adjustment should be necessary.
2)
3) do your step 6 here as you are aware of the locking nut, leaving the calipers mounted will give you something to hang onto (the e-brake lever) and a stationary point (the mounting) to turn the nuts off. They can be very tight and hard to remove.
4) do your step 3
5) then 4
6) then 5
7)
8)
9) Before you do this you need to clean the old lubricant fron the slider pins as well as clean out the mounting holes for the sliders. I use brake cleaner to do this. Inside the holes are two rubber seals the pins slide on. Inspect the condition of the O rings (84 thru 87) and make sure they are not torn, ripped or hard. The should be soft and pliable. Upon remounting the caliper place a coating of brake grease inside the caliper between the two rings and lube the pins lightly so the caliper will slide on them easiely. Also on the caliper mountings note where the brake pads (inner pads only) rest on the mounting bracket both high and low, these areas should be clean and free of any rust build up. The areas should also be as flat and smooth as you can make them, loosen or remove the mounts if neessary to do this. I use a flat file to make the are flat if there is a ridge present and the pads must be able to slide freely in and out as they wear. A light coating of brake lube in this area is also necessary. I use a silicone base brake lube muself as it stays in place longer and is tough to wash off. Then the contact are of the caliper body and mounting bracket should also be clear of rust and dirt build up and as smooth and flat as you can get them, this area also needs a light coating of brake lube.

10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15) omit
16)

Answers:

1) Just a large flat screwdriver
2) Depending on which clip is used on the inner pad, either style can be a pain at times. You might want a small flat screwdriver on hand.
3) See 9 above
4) you have it covered

Cliff -

You never said what year Fiero you have. If it's an '88 I can suggest a much shorter checklist than yours that I have used successfully. Since I haven't done an '84 through '87, I wouldn't presume to advise you there.

It's amazing that the administrator of the best Fiero forum is having to attempt this for the first time on a public road. I had a life-changing experience rebuilding the rear calipers on a Volvo. If you have access to experienced Fiero mechanics I would advise using them.

I forgot a few things. To compress the piston, I put a large deep socket over the threads that come out of the back side of the caliper. That way I can center the C clamp on the piston. Note the order of the rubber seal and the plastic washer on this shaft. Remember, these are not the seals for the brake fluid. The outer rubber is just a dust seal. There is an "O" ring on the shaft inside the caliper to keep the brake fluid in.

Jim

quote Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: It's amazing that the administrator of the best Fiero forum is having to attempt this for the first time on a public road.

Yep. Done lots of things on my car, just never replaced the brake pads before.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: You never said what year Fiero you have.

It's an 86.5.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: Cliff, do it like this and you will avoid unnecessary work:

Thanks. Those are good tips.

quote Originally posted by bowrapennocks: To compress the piston, I put a large deep socket over the threads that come out of the back side of the caliper.

Yes, I had seen that in Ogre's Cave already.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: "Brake Grease". Can I use ball-bearing grease too? Or is that too thick?

The thickness won't be the issue...caliper lube is designed to handle the high temperatures associated with brakes. I'd expect regular grease to just cook on and defeat the intended prupose. Auto parts stores often sell "single use" packs of caliper lube for a buck or two, and some brands of brake pads(usually the ones that come with the extra mounting hardware) include a single-use package in the box. You can use the lube on the back of the pads as "anti-squeel" as well.

The brake grease is also water resistant. Bearing grease gets white and milking when exposed to water much.
Either get a small tube or several packets.

Use Brake Grease...

Any other lube can eat rubber that brake uses.
All petroleum and some synthetic oil/grease can ruin brake system... If not sure it safe then use Brake Grease.
Also... Never use WD40, etc, on parts you want to work again... Same problem. Swell rubber over time.

Any good auto parts store should carry Brake Grease.

Clean up... Brake clean and rag (Use cotton), old tooth bush, etc, that clear of normal oil/grease will work fine.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

Cool, brake grease it is then.

So for prosperity:

• Loosen the equalizer at the middle of the e-Brake cable. (optional)
  
• Remove parking brake cable and return spring from parking brake lever
  
• Remove locking nut and lever
  
• Remove two torx mounting bolts
  
• Slide caliper off and use some kind of wire hook to hang caliper from the suspension to avoid damaging brake hose
  
• Remove brake pads
  
• Compress the piston using a C-Clamp, covering the actuator screw
  
• Remove slider pins (sleeves) and clean pins and slider holes with brake oil. Grease holes with brake grease. Reinstall slider pins.
  
• Install new brake pads
  
• Install caliper
  
• Rotate actuator screw until it locks (counter clockwise for passenger side, clockwise for driver side)
  
• Install lever as close to the stop as possible
  
• Install locking nut
  
• Install parking brake spring and cable
  
• Do the same thing for the other caliper
  
• Tighten the equalizer until on of the levers starts to move. (optional)
  
• Do the "press pedal and work handbrake lever" for final adjustment.

(The reason I still mess with the equalizer is because it helps removing the brake cable from the lever)


Two last questions then I'm good to go (which probably won't be answered before I start because of the time difference, but here goes anyway):

1. How the hell do you remove the slider pins (sleeves)?
   
2. When compressing the piston, do I need to remove the cover from the reservoir in the front (and perhaps syphen out some brake oil)?

The pins will just slide out, if necessary tap them with a hammer and screwdriver if stiff.
If level is low there should be no need dto remove fluid but you can if you wish.

And the earlier question how do you clean the pins and slider holes, just use a shop rag to wipe clean. The pins should be shiny, you might want to have some fine sandpaper nearby as sometimes there will be a build up that is hard to remove.

I just went out to get myself some brake grease. I went to a few auto parts shops and everywhere I went they told me they had never heard of brake grease and that I should use copper grease instead. Is this true? Can I use copper grease instead?

Edit: They sold me a tube of "COPASLIP". Searching the internet I find posts in forums from people that warn against using CopaSlip on sliding bolts, but also from people swearing by it...

Silicone grease would be good, and it won't swell the rubber slide bushings.

CRC, Gunk, Permatex are just a few. Here's link to CRC:

http://www.townautoparts.co...ase/A/B000M8O05Q.htm

I use Dynatex silicone lube for the reason given by pmbrunelle, sil-glyde is another.

I still haven't been able to replace the brake pads yet (no time). I hope I'll have some time tomorrow.

I was able to finally find some brake grease (wouldn't believe how much effort that took) and I also got myself a big C-Clamp. The last tool I needed was a door spring compressor. Although easily obtainable in the States, here in Holland I couldn't find one anywhere (nor had the shops ever heard of them). So I had a choice: either order one over the internet for $30 (incl. shipping) and wait at least 10 days before I get it, or go to the local hardware store and buy some "stuff" for $5 and make one myself. I did the latter:

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I just went out to get myself some brake grease. I went to a few auto parts shops and everywhere I went they told me they had never heard of brake grease and that I should use copper grease instead. Is this true? Can I use copper grease instead? Edit: They sold me a tube of "COPASLIP". Searching the internet I find posts in forums from people that warn against using CopaSlip on sliding bolts, but also from people swearing by it...

Don't listen to the idiots at the auto parts stores. I went looking for the same thing. First place I went to (an Advance Auto I think), the guy tries to sell me the Disk Brake Quiet stuff. That stuff is thick with adhesive properties... the opposite of grease. I mentioned this to him, but he still wasn't convinced.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I was able to finally find some brake grease (wouldn't believe how much effort that took)

Need Brake grease on Euro makers too. Try permatex brand and search online for Euro dealer.

Copaslip is an anti-seize compound not a lube. Will it work? maybe... If it uses oil in product = bad for brake rubber.
Maker site http://www.molyslip.com/pro...anti-seize-compound/

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)