Okay here is what i have-

1988 Fiero Gt Fastback with everything there minus the engine and trans.

4.5 V8 and the transmission out of a 1989 Cadillac Deville. (With every piece of wiring harness)

Set of axles from both an automatic and manual fiero.

Reminder- i have my own torch, welder ect. So i will not need to pay to have the brackets made or anything like that.
and i will be using the engine and transmission out of the cadillac for this swap.
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Questions-

Q1: I have all of this stuff so how much will it cost me to finish this project?

Q2: Exactley what parts of the wiring harness do i need?

Q3: "getting past the theft system" i have been told that ill have to get something coded for the car to start?
If so how much will that cost?

Q4: Just what all do i need to finish this project?

And i already know about Mickey_moose's thread, but his is a 4.9 and stuff is a little bit different because if im correct my engine is a TBI

quote Originally posted by Fiero Reagan: And i already know about Mickey_moose's thread, but his is a 4.9 and stuff is a little bit different because if im correct my engine is a TBI

The 4.9 is TBI also, unless you're using the Allante intake, or some other intake, I believe.

One of your biggest challanges is you are starting with an 89 4.5 vs. the 90. 89 was the last year the 4.5 was TBI (2 injectors within the throttle body) and in 90 it got the same heads/intake as the 91 4.9 with PFI with an individual injector per cylinder. The heads/intake were a major improvement from the pre 90 versions, so hp is much less on that era engine. The 89 4.9 was rated at 155hp @ 4200 rpm and 240 lb-ft @ 2800 rpm. For comparison, in 1990 with the upgrades the 4.5 was rated at 190 hp and 245 lb-ft.

The 4.5 TBI caddy ecm isn't a supported ecm in any tuning packages so you will not be able to tune anything and will have to make the ecm think it is still in the caddy connected to everything it expects to see. Most who have swapped the pre-90 caddy V8's (4.5/4.1) have used the 747 ecm from the late 80's TBI trucks - usually the 305 SBC and that will require the throttle body, harness and ecm from another engine + some time tuning it (that ecm is widely supported). These can be found dirt cheap, the harnesses are as simple as they get and they do not have any VATS or security to bypass.

To make things worse, most of the 4.9 wiring help in the various threads will be of little value since this application is TBI and with a TV cable 4T60 transmission vs PFI with a 4T60e. So you will need to figure out the wiring on your own. The tranny will need the normal 4T60 swap parts (mounts, shifter brackets modified, fiero style VSS, 4T60 axles.

This is a do able swap for people skilled with engine swaps, but I would not recommend it for a first or second swap.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-20-2010).]

quote Originally posted by dobey: The 4.9 is TBI also, unless you're using the Allante intake, or some other intake, I believe.

Nope. 90 4.5's and all 91-95 4.9's are PFI (techincally multi port fuel injection). Actually very similar to our little 2.8's. 89 and earlier are TBI similar to the early 2.5's.

Wiring is essentially the same as a 4.9. The only major difference comes in the injector harness. Instead of 12 wires you have 4-5. The 4.5 injectors are much simpler to wire. You can keep the stock computer and just install a VATS bypass to get around that. Speedo calibration is going to be an issue no matter how you approach it. Tire size is programmed into the ECM and used for calculation of vehicle speed. Since you will not have a fiero VSS to work with and can't re-program the tire size in the ECM your going to have difficulties. A signal converter will make the speedo work but will display it using the caddy tire size for calculation. Essentially it will always read low. If you're able to use a fiero style VSS as fieroguru sugggested you can probably jumper wires to feed both the ECM and speedo which would make it read for fieros size tires. It is crutial to the 4.x engines that they see a VSS signal though and it doesn't just feed the speedo. It effects so many things when that signal is not there.

The trans is easy and very well documented. Its a non-electric shift trans so its pretty simple in that respect. Most 4t60 threads willl have everything you need.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-20-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero Reagan: Okay here is what i have- 1988 Fiero Gt Fastback with everything there minus the engine and trans. 4.5 V8 and the transmission out of a 1989 Cadillac Deville. (With every piece of wiring harness) Set of axles from both an automatic and manual fiero. Reminder- i have my own torch, welder ect. So i will not need to pay to have the brackets made or anything like that. and i will be using the engine and transmission out of the cadillac for this swap. ......................................................................................................... Questions- Q1: I have all of this stuff so how much will it cost me to finish this project? Q2: Exactley what parts of the wiring harness do i need? Q3: "getting past the theft system" i have been told that ill have to get something coded for the car to start? If so how much will that cost? Q4: Just what all do i need to finish this project? And i already know about Mickey_moose's thread, but his is a 4.9 and stuff is a little bit different because if im correct my engine is a TBI

where did you get your engine and tranny from? if you got it from a junkyard, tell them it is defective, bring it back, and exchange it for a 4.9L/tranny combo in its place....NIGHT and DAY difference between the two from a performance standpoint.

thats what i wanted at first but all they had was a 4.5 and the good thing was that the engine only has 50k on it.

Just a suggestion but you could always go carbed.

I did the '89 Deville 4.5 swap. It was fun to drive. There is no VATS to worry about. Make sure the VSS is connected, +12v to the power steering ecm input, +12 to the fuel pump ecm input. Tons of little stuff I forgot.
http://members.fortunecity.com/bubbajoexx/ http://www.fieroaddiction.com/
These sites were helpful.

quote Originally posted by SERGE144: I did the '89 Deville 4.5 swap. It was fun to drive. There is no VATS to worry about. Make sure the VSS is connected, +12v to the power steering ecm input, +12 to the fuel pump ecm input. Tons of little stuff I forgot. http://members.fortunecity.com/bubbajoexx/ http://www.fieroaddiction.com/ These sites were helpful.

the '89 TBI 4.5L caddy's used a resister in the key..not sure if it was actually wired to the ecm...

either way, the engien is a dog compared to the 4.9L. lower gas economy, AND lower power

quote Originally posted by stickpony: the '89 TBI 4.5L caddy's used a resister in the key..not sure if it was actually wired to the ecm... either way, the engien is a dog compared to the 4.9L. lower gas economy, AND lower power

No VATS on the '89 - I did the swap.

From Wiki - "1990 models also received GM's PASS Key theft-deterrent system which used a coded electronic pellet embedded into the ignition key."

And yes - the engine was no screamer - but it was more fun than the 2.8 and sounded better - and it was cheap.

And no - I'm not being a know it all - just providing first hand experience.

quote Originally posted by SERGE144: No VATS on the '89 - I did the swap. From Wiki - "1990 models also received GM's PASS Key theft-deterrent system which used a coded electronic pellet embedded into the ignition key." And yes - the engine was no screamer - but it was more fun than the 2.8 and sounded better - and it was cheap. And no - I'm not being a know it all - just providing first hand experience.

yes, more fun than a 2.8L, hell, a 3.1L is more fun than a 2.8L, but if you are going to go caddy V8, might as well do the 4.9L, since it doesn't cost that much more to do, and the benefits over the 4.5L TBI is significant

quote Originally posted by stickpony: yes, more fun than a 2.8L, hell, a 3.1L is more fun than a 2.8L, but if you are going to go caddy V8, might as well do the 4.9L, since it doesn't cost that much more to do, and the benefits over the 4.5L TBI is significant

I agree - I always wanted to upgrade to the PFI motor after I did the swap. I figured if a 4.9 deal came along I would be way ahead than from starting from scratch.

Im not too worried about it.

Like i have said before this engine only has 50k on it, so it has a good like ahead of it.
And in the beginning i had the choice of a lt1 or a 4.5 with the transmission included. But im in it for the increased power and mileage.

Plus whenever you come across a 4.9 they usually have a ton of miles on them

quote Originally posted by Fiero Reagan: Im not too worried about it. Like i have said before this engine only has 50k on it, so it has a good like ahead of it. And in the beginning i had the choice of a lt1 or a 4.5 with the transmission included. But im in it for the increased power and mileage. Plus whenever you come across a 4.9 they usually have a ton of miles on them

hmmmm. anyone have real world economy averages for the 4.5L TBI in a fiero?