I'm really curious how a Fiero with Gull-Wings would turn out. I think the mod would be easiest on a t-top model, am I right? Just won't to hear your thoughts.
Chris.
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04:12 PM
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Carver1 Member
Posts: 2843 From: Edgewood, New Mexico Registered: Nov 2000
Not really possible without a hell of a roll cage to build off of. There just isn't enough metal upstairs to hang a door off of. And what are you gonna attach the hinge to? The glass? It would be pretty cool though.
------------------ 86 SE ChopTop 4 Speed 3.4 "The Short Bus" "For Sale"
Well, I don't really know if it would work or not, or how it would work, because I really don't know anything. So, not possible?
EDIT: And also, I didn't really think the T-Top thing through. I was thinking that you remove the T-Tops, and use the cuts from it to make the doors. But I didn't take into account that you don't have material on the top to work with. So nevermind that I guess.
[This message has been edited by mooseinabox (edited 07-05-2010).]
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05:30 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
I can see that. Just take molds from the door and t-top, then make a fibreglass foam core sandwich door for lightness. You won't have any side protection.
I can see that. Just take molds from the door and t-top, then make a fibreglass foam core sandwich door for lightness. You won't have any side protection.
So my idea wasn't that bad afterall? Well, nice to hear it works, doubt I'd ever do it though.
The T-top would not be a bad place to start. I was considering it, but I have too many projects & no time for that so I sold the T-Top car & just building the custom Fiero. The way I would do it, would be to make a frame out of 3/4" or 1" square tubing & hand build the door. The other major change would be to make the door come down just about halfway of the original door, leaving a large sill for strength & protection. All it take is time & money: depending on your circumstances, pick one to spend a LOT of. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Which do you most can't the least? What I most can't the least, would be do not a bad job but always a good.
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07:51 PM
UCFieroCharger Member
Posts: 976 From: Cincinnati, OH Registered: Nov 2005
I will say this, ANYTHING is possible if the car is in the right hands, and I would guarantee that asking the right person or sampling information from a few select people on this forum would get you the information you seek. I just don't know who to ask
I would agree that serious reinforcement would be needed on the roof. also, The delorean has hinges on both sides of the doors in order for it to close securely and not make hella noise when driving, so you may also have to consider reconstructing the door latch mechanisms.
It could work, you could build up the door sills and take advantage of the open roof to get in the car. Having a rolling window would be tricky, you could install a smaller sliding window like the Delorean.
I wouldn't give up the side protection for them. Perhaps a locking bar but there would have to be something.
Would be so hard I think, but definitely possible. U would have to have a history in doing stuff like this or will have to pay somewhere to do it for u. If u do it urself u will probably need unlimited access to a machine shop lol.
Would definitely look pretty cool tho (kinda like the back to the future car, a delorean or whatever)
How would I be losing side protection? I don't fully understand.
You lose side protection because the bulk of the side impact support in the Fiero is in the door itself. You need to have the inner structure intact, and having any sort of door such as a gullwing setup would likely have to have some of that material removed or modified to construct a support frame for the door so it can hold all the way up to the hinge (the inner most top portion) all the way to the bottom - you're talking about a bit of significant weight added.
The reason this does not apply in other custom door setups such as vertical hinges or suicide doors is that the hinge typically carries the weight of the door and sometimes even has some sort of support (such as a gas strut with vertical doors). With most gull wing setups, like on the DeLorean, there is an extra torsion bar that runs the length of the top portion of the door to help it pivot the weight. As the Fiero chassis lacks anything of this sort, not only would you have to create it, but you would also run the risk of not knowing if the entire assembly would be safe or not.
You lose side protection because the bulk of the side impact support in the Fiero is in the door itself..
Install Strikers on both sides of the door, then when the door closes, it'll latch onto the strikers and keep a considerable amount of strength, almost as much as a factory door.
Hmmm, looking at the Mercedes 300SL, there is alot more structure around the window than a Fiero has. I'm also pretty sure that the side impact beams beat anything Mercedes put in their doors back then (even if they did have a kick-butt spaceframe).
My thought would be to go off custom glass and trim an inch or more off the edges of the side window. This would give room to make the gull wing frame. That frame would seal against the factory window weather strip and t-top seals and provide the strength to support the door when it is open. This would also hopefully avoid crazy cutting and welding to the Fiero spaceframe and use most of the factory seals so the thing doesn't leak like mad.
I can see how it is do-able. It is only time and money, right? Then you'd get to join the small world of people who can't open their doors in parking lots or garages. Seriously, I think the biggest problem with gull wings would be living with them in anything you would be driving regularly because it takes a lot of space to open those suckers.
You would have to fabricate a whole new door with a frame around the glass area. It would have to be very lightweight so it wouldnt bend when opened. It would have litterally NO crash protection, you might just as well hang a piece of cardboard beside you. Wouldnt matter if it had 10 bear claw latches, it still would cave in with a side impact. You prob would have to use a lexan, removable window because the lightweight door wouldnt support much internal hardware. It could be done for a showcar, but wouldnt be safe on the street.
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08:12 AM
couldahadaV8 Member
Posts: 797 From: Bolton, Ontario, Canada Registered: Feb 2008
Originally posted by BluEyes: Then you'd get to join the small world of people who can't open their doors in parking lots or garages. Seriously, I think the biggest problem with gull wings would be living with them in anything you would be driving regularly because it takes a lot of space to open those suckers.
It takes 11" of side clearance to open the doors on a Delorean. How much does your Fiero take?
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08:29 AM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15253 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
I think anything can be done. Look at every choptop, lambo stretch or engine swap on here. However, having driven a delorean I can say this: the delorean sits higher than a fiero, getting into it will be like entering a running helicopter. Also there where instances when water in the sills had frozen, sealing the passengers inside. There have been other gullsing cars since then so I guess someone has worked that out. I had actually thought about this a while ago; would be interesting to see.
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11:02 AM
87antuzzi Member
Posts: 11151 From: Surrounded by corn. Registered: Feb 2009
I agree, Fiero is way too low for gullwings. Plus, as a general rule, gullwings suck. They are definitely not the most practical door to go with, and there are more practical styles that also look better...
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01:00 PM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15253 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
It's different when the car's door and frame is engineered with them from the get-go.
CONVERTING a car with a frameless door requires more than most backyard mechanics can manage. It would likely end up being another hacked up and abandoned Fiero project.
He should just get the butterfly hinges for the Fiero and go with that if he's not happy with the stock doors.
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01:07 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Not feasible? Lambo stretch is easy. Would it require more engineering than this?: http://angelonearth.net/VW.html ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Which do you most can't the least? What I most can't the least, would be do not a bad job but always a good.
x2, lambo stretch is not hard...
You would basically just end up making your own custom door in this situation, as there is obviously no framework to start with that goes from the top to the bottom.
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01:32 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
Unfortunately, the link to the ad (which had photos of the doors open) is dead. It was a Bricklin look-alike rebody, built on a Fiero, with gull-wing doors. Unfortunately, everybody was too busy poo-pooing the body kit to appreciate the significance of the gull-wing doors.
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01:47 PM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
Unfortunately, the link to the ad (which had photos of the doors open) is dead. It was a Bricklin look-alike rebody, built on a Fiero, with gull-wing doors. Unfortunately, everybody was too busy poo-pooing the body kit to appreciate the significance of the gull-wing doors.
That was a complete, real, Bricklin body, on a Fiero frame. That's one way to do it.
Pull into a parking spot and can't get the doors open? I'd much prefer suicide doors. They are WAY easier and IMO look much better.
This is a common myth around people who have never got in and out of a car equipped with gullwing doors. In the DeLorean I drove, I parked less than three feet to the car next to me and still cleared it when I opened the door. Remember gull wing doors pivot on the roof, meaning that instead of opening on the side of the car the opening point is nearly in the middle. It takes a lot less room than you would think.
That was my point. But mooseinabox is only 14, so he has lots of time to do it.
I'm surprised you remembered my age. And also - almost 15! Temps here I come!
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:
Pull into a parking spot and can't get the doors open? I'd much prefer suicide doors. They are WAY easier and IMO look much better.
I actually thought the gull wing doors made it easier to get open, if you think about it, they do give you more room, right? Also, I don't like suicides at all, just not my kind of door. Besides, this entire post was just off a random thought I had. Really I just wanted to see what the Fiero would look like with them.
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02:49 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17106 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Having a high sill would create problems with getting underneath the steering wheel unless you used a column that moved to the side like some of the old 60's GM vehicles. I think we all know the difficulties with the lower sill at it's current height. The latch would likely need to be relocated to the bottom of the sill. The hinges could be located on the bar of the t-top setup, but would need to be as far apart as possible to keep the door from twisting. As you can see, my car also had a removeable sunroof in each door. These caused a slight loss of rigidity.
phonedawg's post shows the latch in the lower part of the door and sill, as does this shot of one of my cars. The inside mechanism was similar to the Fiero, while the outside release was a push button keyed lock. My car had a small drop-down window at the rear lower corner of the side window area. Useless for drive-thru, toll booths, parking lot ticket dispensers or even ventilation.
The door would probably need to have the stock latch removed but retain it's striker pin on the rear door sill and have an additional one designed for the front. I think this might help to retain some of the impact resistance that is lost when the stock hinges are removed.
Quote Fieroseverywhere: Pull into a parking spot and can't get the doors open? I'd much prefer suicide doors. They are WAY easier and IMO look much better.
Actually, I could get out of my gull-winged car in places a small child could never get out of any conventionally equipped vehicle. All it needed was about 8-10 inches clearance to get my feet out and on the ground.
[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 07-07-2010).]
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08:28 AM
PFF
System Bot
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
I think anything can be done. Look at every choptop, lambo stretch or engine swap on here. However, having driven a delorean I can say this: the delorean sits higher than a fiero, getting into it will be like entering a running helicopter. Also there where instances when water in the sills had frozen, sealing the passengers inside. There have been other gullsing cars since then so I guess someone has worked that out. I had actually thought about this a while ago; would be interesting to see.
A friend had a Toyota Sera on coilovers, wound way down. I instinctively fell into the car when I was getting in, kinda like the ungraceful tumble you need to take to get in a lowered Fiero. Others however didn't, and almost always clouted themselves on the doors. It was a source of continuing hilarity.
Personally I think although it COULD be done (anything's possible with enough steel and a MIG after all!), there's some major things in the way - lots of structure would need to be created and the stock windows for one would have to be sent packing and the doors fitted with big beefy frames. It's feasible, but is it worth it? People mistake Fieros for Deloreans enough as it is!
[This message has been edited by Carcenomy (edited 07-08-2010).]
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07:13 AM
jsantini Member
Posts: 44 From: columbia, NJ, USA Registered: May 2007
FWIW, I did gull wing doors on my project car (88 Fiero). They came out pretty good, but they do look funky. I did a subframe out of 3/4 inch steel tubing, and they hinge along the top frame (I did a custom Frame). Originally, I used gas struts to raise them with bear claw latches at the bottom, but I had issues with the alignment, so I'm converting them to motorized lift struts and dropping the latches altogether. The doors are styrofoam core, with 2-4 layers of .009 inch glass cloth and epoxy. RV style slider windows. I raised the door sill high for crash protection, and it's actually a good place to sit as you slide in. The entire door only weighs 12 lbs, including the slider windows and power side view mirrors.
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07:09 PM
couldahadaV8 Member
Posts: 797 From: Bolton, Ontario, Canada Registered: Feb 2008
Not sure how to attach pictures here. You can check out my whole build at johnjsantini.com. At this point, it's about as radical as it gets. Not much original Fiero left. Just the front suspension, rear hubs, and the seats. Oh yeah, the parking brake and windshield wiper motor.... The last chapter shows the final bodywork.
Not sure how to attach pictures here. You can check out my whole build at johnjsantini.com. At this point, it's about as radical as it gets. Not much original Fiero left. Just the front suspension, rear hubs, and the seats. Oh yeah, the parking brake and windshield wiper motor.... The last chapter shows the final bodywork.
That's uhh... not a Fiero :P
I don't care what it started as, that's not a fiero :P
lol, I bet you get alot of looks rolling down the road in that thing.
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11:44 PM
Jul 9th, 2010
jsantini Member
Posts: 44 From: columbia, NJ, USA Registered: May 2007
OK, so it's no longer a real Fiero.... The seats and steering wheel make it feel like a Fiero, sort of..... I do get tons of questions. Right now I'm trying to fix a broken rear axle on it. That little motor has a lot of torque!
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12:21 AM
Jul 12th, 2010
UCFieroCharger Member
Posts: 976 From: Cincinnati, OH Registered: Nov 2005