Hi, I need some help guys, I know many have posted similar questions but still i have no clue on what else to do. I went aand searched through many postings and threads trying to diagnose and fix the problem(s). I read and learned many testing procedures and possible problems but I still have the engine not starting.

Let me start from the beginning, I bought an 86 gt without an engine but did have the auto tranny. I then found a manual tranny 85 2m6, this car had the engine but had to be started with starter fluid in order to get it to run, previous owner claimed a bad fuel pump. The car would stay on with the constant starter fluid through the tb. I bought the car took out the engine and put it in the 86 gt. I finished dropping in the engine and connected everything, except for the main water hoses (haven't put water in the system yet). I then tried starting the car but it didn't start. I checked fuses and fusible links and they seemed good, then i checked for spark and had no spark. The rpm tach did move slightly, check engine light turns on (assuming ecm is good). I then tested with the ohm test (from the manual) the coil and the ignition module and both passed the tests. I'm starting to think the distributor may be in the wrong place or possibly a wiring problem (broken wire). I connected a wire from the +12v side on the battery directly to the coil (between coil and pigtail) and i got spark, but even then the car wont start. I checked for fuel at the rail and it has fuel. Then pulled a spark plug out and seems dry, no gas smell. After reading and searching some more, i decided to test the injector plug and test the designated ground pulsing pins (think b and c off my head) and got no pulses using a regular test light.

Is there a way i can bypass the ignition system so the ecm can send the pulses to the injectors? Is there any other tests i can do to check coil, module, distributor, injectors etc? Do you think the distributor is off timing causing the no spark situation leading to the no fuel problem? Do you think its just a faulty wiring issue?

Also, when i removed the engine out of the 85 I left the distributor in the engine, to keep from messing with the timing or having to disassemble and assemble the distributor. I used the coil and module from this engine as well. I'm starting to believe the previous owner had the bad timing causing the ecm to not receive cranking signal and not sending pulses to the injectors. Is this possible?

Thanks in advance guys. Appreciate all the info in the forum and your help.

Always unplug the tach filter when Ignition is a problem.
See cave. HE ignition in engine area

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

Ogre, Thank You Very Much. I went through your fusible link replacement and read many of your other topics. Good thing this forum has such great pple. I really appreciate it. Thanks again.

No problem

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

Distributor off - No - you would still get spark, just not at the right time.

Take your ICM to the parts store for testing.

If the ecm isn't seeing distributor pulses - Coil -> ICM -> ECM/Tach -> Pulse the injectors.

If the ecm isn't seeign pulses - then it won't fire the injectors.

So the first question at hand is how to get the distributor working correctly, Yes pull the tach filter to test it.

No way to get the injectors to pulse wihtout the ignition - thats what tells the ECM to pulse.

You have to fix it anyways.

So take the ICM to the store and lets see what they say.

I decided to buy some Starting Fluid to try to start it, jumped a wire from +12v @ the battery to the black pigtail (firewall side plug) on the ignition coil, then proceeded to disconnect the tach filter as pointed out by Ogre. Cranked the car, sprayed the starter fluid, and car started right up. Then tested with a light tester at an injector plug and i have no signal (light stayed off while cranking).

Also discovered the plug wires on the cap were all moved one space over, so also fixed spark plug cables to correct place. I had originally connected the cables according to the manual when i installed the engine on the other car; but as i went through a quick diagram I had made before removing the cap and spark plug wires to remove engine from its original I discovered they were off by one space.

Now I wonder if the wrong position of the spark plug wires are causing the no signal fault to the ecm, causing the no pulsing at the injectors. Is there a particular wire to check that goes to the ecm from the ignition system to allow the pulses for the injectors to work? Still wondering if its a faulty coil, pickup, module, or if its a shorted out wire that's not allowing the ecm to receive signal.

Would appreciate any opinions, facts, ideas. Thanks again.

The pick up coil, and the ICM are good if it started on fluid. Don't mess with them at this point. Since you know the injectors aren't being pulsed, stick on that for now. Taking apart things that work will only make more of a mess.

So when you "hot wire" the +12 it starts on fluid, but when you just have the connector plugged on the car doesn't start. What does that tell you? That the car isn't providing +12 to that point. Right? Did you try to measure the voltage that should be coming on the wire with the key on? If you don't have +12 there then why? Double check your fuses.

Have you downloaded the GM manual that includes the wiring? That should point you to the issue.

Here is the manual download page. Download the service manual for the '86

On page 898 of 1303 is the ignition wiring diagram

So when you "hotwire" the engine to get it to run on starting fluid you apply voltage on the pink on the ignition coil?

Does the Service Engine Soon (SES) light come on when you turn the key to on? If not take out the 5 torx screws on the back panel of the dash and see if the bulb is burnt out. If the SES light isnt coming on during the check light time then you have to look at why maybe the ECM isn't working.

If the pink wire from the harness isn't getting power from the ignition switch why? See the fuseable link in the diagram? My guess is that it isn't that since the trouble seems to be more than just that but it's something to check if your not getting power.

Take your volt meter or test light, ground the negative and with the key turned to on - check to make sure you hae voltage on the fuses running the ICM and the two seperate Injector Fuses. The fuses have a spot where you can touch the metal connctor of the fuse from the back of the fuse with it still installed. Check and make sure you have +12 on BOTH sides of the fuse. This way your making sure both that the fuse is good, but also that the fuse IS getting power.

Page 882 of 1303 shows the fuse block. This is the 86. Yours might not be exactly the same. The fuse panel un-hitches from the sides and can pivot down so you can see it better.

In particular look at fuses for the ECM IGN, FUEL PUMP, TBI INJ1 and TBI INJ 2

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-30-2010).]

phonedawgs, again, thanks for all the great ideas and input. I checked the fuses in the fuse block by taking out one by one and making sure they are good, I didn't get to test them on both sides to see if they are actually getting power. Right now i just got home and is a little wet outside, so meanwhile I'm going to download the manual and print out those diagrams you pointed and read through to see if i can pinpoint the problem. I will also take both modules to get tested just to make sure they are working correctly.

As far as the water hoses go, I'm going to connect them and put water in the system. I was just trying to start the car for a few seconds to make sure everything was running but i will instead go ahead and connect everything, Don't want the seal to go bad once i fix these other issues.

And thanks, again about the timing. I will also try to check that tonight when I can get someone to come and help me. That's part of the reason it's taking so long to fix, can't crank and check stuff on the engine bay at the same time.

Will get back to you guys as soon as I get the module tested and start reading the wiring from the manual. Thanks.

Hi, well got back to work on the fiero. I got two modules tested and 1 tested good, the other one was trashed. Then I got home installed the good module, with diaelectric grease under. Then tried to check for spark and it seems as there no spark still. If I "hot wire" from the +12v to the pink on the black plug on the coil I get spark (same process as before). I tried both with and without the tach filter plugged in, even with the wires jumped across. Again as before, sprayed starter fluid with the hot wire cable and car starts right up.

I just thought of a new possibility. Can some tranny cable be an issue? possibly gear not being in park?

I will go get the 2 coils tested to auto zone, hopefully the whole problem is a bad coil. The I will also test both small leads on the fuses to see they are getting power through. If both the coil and fuses are good, I will have to start looking at the diagram pages from the manual (links and info provided by phonedawgz) to see if I can hot wire the injectors or see where the fault may be.

This is getting old quick, I'm getting stressed, especially since it will probably be something simple. Lets see what happens. Keep the ideas, opinion, input coming guys.

Thanks everyone.

It can NOT be a tranny cable. The starter gets it's power via a switch for the tranny. Your engine cranks so it is NOT a tranny cable problem. (If you remember - the engine will run in all gears)

Take your test light and on one of the injectors - with the key on - make sure you have voltage at pink wire of the injector. On the other bank check for voltage on the Pink/White wire.

Looking at page 279 in Haynes - the injectors get their power from the fuse box - and they get a ground from the ECM. If you have power to the injectors - then the problem has to be that they aren't getting a ground from the ECM. Why? Bad ECM OR The ECM isn't getting power OR the ECM isn't getting the ignition signal from the dist

When you checked to make sure the fuel rail had fuel - with the fuel pump running (do it during the "prime" the pressure in the fuel rail should be 40 psi. That is like the pressure of the water in your house. The fuel should spurt out of the fuel test port about 2 feet. 2 inches isn't enough to run the engine.

Have you checked the 15 Amp ECM fuse in the fuse box on both sides?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-02-2010).]

UPDATE: Got the coils tested, one tested good, but at only 23 with tax I decided to buy it either way. Got home installed it and same no spark situation unless 'hot wired'. I did check all the fuses on both sides to make sure it is getting power. I will go ahead and take the ecm off the previously running 85 and install it in the 86 gt to either see if its a bad ecm or rule out that problem. Also will go to the c500 and check those fusible links again. I installed two fusible links following Ogre's page, it was the two wires that come behind the battery and go to the main power source under the c500. Originally on this car (86 gt), the previous owner was careless and just striaght wired those two wires, as well as another wire without a fusible link. I fixed those 3 fusible links, but didnt bother to test the starter fusible link, since starter works, and also didn't test the alternator fusible link. I'm not sure if theres more fusible links to check. I will certainly check all of them tomorrow, including the newly installed ones, to make sure they are all good. Possibly the lack of fusible links burnt the ecm or something else.

And Phonedawgz, your the man, its certainly the ecm, fusible links, or ecm not getting signal. Also need to test those injectors once again. I will leave the distributor untouched for now since it runs with the hotwire and with the starter fluid.

It's getting a little stressing, but thanks to phonedawgz ideas and knowledge I'm keeping my hopes up. I feel the end to this problem is close.

Another update will come soon. See how everything goes.

FINAL UPDATE as for tonight. Put the other ecm in and exact same thing happened. The one I replaced it with is from a manual tranny and this car but is an auto, but should serve to test. No spark unless 'hot wired', starts on starting fluid as well.

Next Test(s): Test fusible links, open the c500 connectors and make sure everything is fine in there, check the integrity of all wiring by taking tape and wire loom off. WIll see how things go tomorrow.

Hopefully tomorrow I solve this problem, I have all morning to work on the car.

Thanks, particularly to phonedawgz and ogre. Off to take out my wife to party or something (shes getting jealous for all the fiero attention). Will update you guys tomorrow.

No need to open up C500 unless you find you're not getting power on the pink wire in E3 of C500. Coming out of C500 going to the engine there is only one fusable link. Use a pin to pierce into the wire before the fuseable link. See if you have the +12 there. If so then try after it.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-03-2010).]