Hey everyone I think this would be a great idea for the 3800sc engine. I have searched and nothing comprehensive comes up to get a good idea of what mods do what in changing the performance or 1/4 mile time.

I am seriously looking into doing this swap now that my 3.4 has died and I am trying to get a basis of understanding. So..

Stock 3800 series II 240 hp 280 lb TQ.

Headers= 10-15 hp?

3' exhaust for 10-15hp also?

Pulley sizes 3.4, 3.3, 3.2 and 2.9 = ?hp.

What injector size needs to be purchased for corresponding pulley size.

Rockers are 7-10 HP?

Intercooler either a stacked one, or FMIC type. Would Meth injection or Water injection work very well?

Other mods? What does it take to get into the 11's.

Tranny being either 4T60-HD with shift points made quicker. OR I guess a Getrag for those that go that route.

One of the best mods sounds like Porting the blower and heads. Is this correct.
And most importantly what does the quarter mile drop to with the subsequent mods IN A FIERO.

I know this information is available to the Grand Prix crowd, but not ours. I know it's alot of questions, but that's the point. This swap is becoming so common it's time to understand what mods do what to affect the performance

turbo = enough hp.

All of the mods in the grand prix area, translate directly here, but we run ~13.4 "stock" while they run like 14.4 stock. A good intake/exhaust and a 3.4 pulley gets you high 12's. A manual transmission adds a few MPH and drops a tenth or 2 in these areas.

Cam's are easy to do, and provide some of the best power/acceleration gains. Ported heads are nice, but you would need a pretty involved configuration to take full advantage of them. Water injection doesnt really work at all, usually reduces power.

From my experience a good set up for a streetable 3800SC is to go with the ZZPerformance XP hot cam, double roller timing chain, 105 valve springs and 42.5 lb injectors along with the needed gaskets for the work.
With this you can pretty safely with a good tune run a 3.25 inch SC pulley with no KR.
Have done a few of these builds for customers with very good results while retaining the reliability of the 3800 SC engine for daily driving.
Other recomended things would be a good flowing exhaust and a larger throttle body like the newer Northstar one or an LS1 with a matching MAF like the LQ4. Dan

You ready for this BlkPearl?

Keep in mind that you can get everything used for cheap if you are on a budget. The GP community is always demodding.
turbo all the way if you want to go 11's easily

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Being you are in Cali this list might be hard to come up with...How much are you going to be able to get away with?

quote Originally posted by FIEROFLYER: From my experience a good set up for a streetable 3800SC is to go with the ZZPerformance XP hot cam, double roller timing chain, 105 valve springs and 42.5 lb injectors along with the needed gaskets for the work. With this you can pretty safely with a good tune run a 3.25 inch SC pulley with no KR. Have done a few of these builds for customers with very good results while retaining the reliability of the 3800 SC engine for daily driving. Other recomended things would be a good flowing exhaust and a larger throttle body like the newer Northstar one or an LS1 with a matching MAF like the LQ4. Dan

105 springs suck, and are hardly better than stock springs. If you were to get a double roller timing chain, the #130 springs are the only things you should be using on a high lift cam like the XP, or S1x.

If you were cheap and wanted to run a XP cam, you can use LS6 yellow springs, that are similar to the 130s, just with a lower seat pressure.

Ding, Ding, Ding Mustangsbeware is correct.

I appreciate your guys input as everyone who has chimed in has very strong running 3800's. I know a Turbo would essentially give ma all that I want, but in CA it's not going to happen unless I have a kit car designation. And that's hard to get now, plus it's a minimum of 1.5 years away for me.

So I can use a cam so long as it's smogable. Maybe you guy's know what I can use that will pass emisions? Same goes with all other mods. Good thing is WCF has done some really solid legwork for us in CA with this swap. Using their headers (I know may not be the best) and exhaust is perfectly legal and helps with our bar and smog laws. Same goes with intake and throttle body. So I figure 4 inch intake and Northstar throttle body. Headers, 3 inch exhaust.

Stock pulley at first. But then change it two whatever I can get to run with supporting mods. Sounds like 42lb injectors with a smaller pulley? And then cooling. I guess put an FMIC somewhere?

How much to the wheels can I get with bolt-ons and maybe rockers.

Yes, Fakhari it's probably time to do this. I'm tired of a slow Fiero.

[This message has been edited by blkpearl (edited 06-25-2010).]

You may be able to get away with using the VS cam and a nice tune as I have had a few 88 Fieros here in Ontario running it and still passing their e-tests with no problems. Other then that in California you pretty much have to stay stock. Dan

VS cam is all the novice 3800 dude is going to be able to get to pass on the sniff test, I would also couple it with a factory GM cat converter as well.

You probably wont need an injector upgrade really, the stock injectors can take you quite far.

idk, if u just pull that 3800 outa there and put in like a 3.6dohc vvt, and some boost, i think youll be more happy :P

hope you got deep pockets for that tho :P

If you are planning on running a 3.25 pulley you will need the 42lb injectors. Cheapest way I've found to buy them is watch ebay. Mustang guys dump green tops"42's" all the time. My personal opinion I'd go headers. 3.25 pully 42lb injectors. Xp cam. Roller rockers ls6 springs. A northstar throttlebody. Don't waste ur time with a heat exchanger they work only to an extent. Plus fitment will be hard beings your already stuffing the motor in the car. Go with a alky meth. Setup . Solid mounts and a 5 spd easy 11 second car. Check out clubgp.com guys are always selling parts cheap.

quote Originally posted by kikinz24: If you are planning on running a 3.25 pulley you will need the 42lb injectors. Cheapest way I've found to buy them is watch ebay. Mustang guys dump green tops"42's" all the time. My personal opinion I'd go headers. 3.25 pully 42lb injectors. Xp cam. Roller rockers ls6 springs. A northstar throttlebody. Don't waste ur time with a heat exchanger they work only to an extent. Plus fitment will be hard beings your already stuffing the motor in the car. Go with a alky meth. Setup . Solid mounts and a 5 spd easy 11 second car. Check out clubgp.com guys are always selling parts cheap.

Unsure were you do you reading at but you need to find a new place as most what you have said is wrong...42# injectors are not needed until you drop to a 3.0 pulley and under. If using the XP cam you need to use 105# springs or better with modded retainers. Saying anIC is a waste is just down right funny and sayng fitting it into the car is hard makes the comment even better. Soild mounts/5 speed is an easy 11 sec car.....some folks have alot to learn......

quote Originally posted by kikinz24: If you are planning on running a 3.25 pulley you will need the 42lb injectors. Cheapest way I've found to buy them is watch ebay. Mustang guys dump green tops"42's" all the time. My personal opinion I'd go headers. 3.25 pully 42lb injectors. Xp cam. Roller rockers ls6 springs. A northstar throttlebody. Don't waste ur time with a heat exchanger they work only to an extent. Plus fitment will be hard beings your already stuffing the motor in the car. Go with a alky meth. Setup . Solid mounts and a 5 spd easy 11 second car. Check out clubgp.com guys are always selling parts cheap.

nearly everything in this post is wrong.

quote Originally posted by blkpearl: Ding, Ding, Ding Mustangsbeware is correct. I appreciate your guys input as everyone who has chimed in has very strong running 3800's. I know a Turbo would essentially give ma all that I want, but in CA it's not going to happen unless I have a kit car designation. And that's hard to get now, plus it's a minimum of 1.5 years away for me. So I can use a cam so long as it's smogable. Maybe you guy's know what I can use that will pass emisions? Same goes with all other mods. Good thing is WCF has done some really solid legwork for us in CA with this swap. Using their headers (I know may not be the best) and exhaust is perfectly legal and helps with our bar and smog laws. Same goes with intake and throttle body. So I figure 4 inch intake and Northstar throttle body. Headers, 3 inch exhaust. Stock pulley at first. But then change it two whatever I can get to run with supporting mods. Sounds like 42lb injectors with a smaller pulley? And then cooling. I guess put an FMIC somewhere? How much to the wheels can I get with bolt-ons and maybe rockers. Yes, Fakhari it's probably time to do this. I'm tired of a slow Fiero.

You can probally get away with a 3.4 press one that looks stock, WCF headers, full exhaust, nice intake, stock P/P TB and P/P blower. If you want a little more and are sketchy if you can pass smog with a cam then go with some modded 1.9 rockers. As these can be added and removed in a hour or so with ease and the gains from them are nice. No need for bigger injectors till you hit a 3.0 or smaller pulley..

All I have to say is when I had my 99 Bonneville I had a 3.2 pulley, ported TB, TOG headers, a VS cam and a SS inter-cooler and that land barge would move. In fact while I was doing research on how to make that tub move is when I stumbled across my first swap thread on the Fiero. What ever you decide I wish you the best of luck!

Folks:

Come on folks give him advice that will actually work in California.

You can absolutely get by with a stock Series II with with WCF's headers, CAI and Executive Order.

"California Air Resources Board approved engine conversions.
You can now install the 3800 supercharged Series II engine in your Fiero and obtain an EO number (Executive Order number) through West Coast Fiero, making this engine conversion legal in California and many other states that have smog regulations. With our EO number and components, you can just go to a smog referee.
Your 1984 - 1988 Pontiac Fiero originally equipped with either the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder (1984-1988), or 2.8 liter V-6 (1985-1988) naturally aspirated engine equipped with one of the following California 3.8 liter supercharged engines installed as part of an engine change:

Model-Year Vehicle

1996-1998 Pontiac Bonneville w. 2800 Series II supercharged engine
1998 Olds Cutlass w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1997-1998 Pontiac Grand Prix w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1996-1998 Buick LeSabre w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1998 Chevy Lumina w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1998 Chevy Monte Carlo w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1996-1998 Oldsmobile 88 w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1996-1998 Oldsmobile 98 w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1996-1998 Buick Park Avenue w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine
1996-1998 Buick Regal w. 3800 Series II supercharged engine "

All of the components listed below must be purchased together and installed as a kit to qualify for the California CARB approval.
http://www.westcoastfiero.c...arb_conversions.html

And, you cannot use a manual transmission or the afternarket cat shown on WCF's site. It has to be a factory cat since Jan 1, 2009 or maybe a California CARB approved cat such as showm by car Sound below, but look at those prices.

Car Sound California Catalog Application Search Results http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04california.asp

Year Description Product Type Part # MSRP
1996 3.8L Tier 1; SE UNIVERSAL CATALYTIC CONVERTER 46006 $547.00
1996 3.8L Tier 1; SE DIRECT FIT CATALYTIC CONVERTER 46464 $852.60
1996 3.8L Tier 1; SSE UNIVERSAL CATALYTIC CONVERTER 46006 $547.00
1996 3.8L Tier 1; SSE DIRECT FIT CATALYTIC CONVERTER 46464 $852

Oh yeah, blkpearl, that Nortstar throttle body probably will get caught by the Referee as the EO does not cover it.

Regards,

David

[This message has been edited by MountainHiBlue87GT (edited 06-26-2010).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: nearly everything in this post is wrong.

pretty interesting that its mostly wrong ?? this is the exact setup i ran on my top swap and never ONCE had a problem. 97 gt 2dr full top swap with every single mod listed 0-1kr at full boost between 5500-6k rpm. tuned with hptuners.

quote Originally posted by kikinz24: pretty interesting that its mostly wrong ?? this is the exact setup i ran on my top swap and never ONCE had a problem. 97 gt 2dr full top swap with every single mod listed 0-1kr at full boost between 5500-6k rpm. tuned with hptuners.

Im sure some more experienced members will chime in on this one, but just so you know when swapping 3800s into Fieros, you dont play by the same rules as GP guys. The car is much lighter and we can get a little more extreme before running into heat/knock issues.

-Joe

quote Originally posted by kikinz24: If you are planning on running a 3.25 pulley you will need the 42lb injectors. Cheapest way I've found to buy them is watch ebay. Mustang guys dump green tops"42's" all the time. My personal opinion I'd go headers. 3.25 pully 42lb injectors. Xp cam. Roller rockers ls6 springs. A northstar throttlebody. Don't waste ur time with a heat exchanger they work only to an extent. Plus fitment will be hard beings your already stuffing the motor in the car. Go with a alky meth. Setup . Solid mounts and a 5 spd easy 11 second car. Check out clubgp.com guys are always selling parts cheap.

Pulley is huge, injectors are overkill, roller rockers hurt power, intercoolers are easy for the most part, meth reduces power significantly, even if it lets you "not get knock", you will never run 11's in a manual trans car with "solid mounts" assuming you have said setup easily at least. The few times we went 11's in the manual car was when nitrous was sprayed on top of a 3.2 pulley setup... even then it was a 11.9999.

Well thanks for the discussion.

I was aware the Throttle body might not work, so I would put it on after the swap is approved if needed. My biggest concern is the cam. What cam can be used that will pass smog. OR can I have an XP cam put in and then try to pass smog with race gas or something. I am open to whatever I can make work, and also be as fast as possible.

Another option is NX. How much nitrous can the engine handle? 100 wet/dry shot? Or a 75 shot.

With full exhaust+headers+intake including throttle body. And rockers+3.0 pulley. Will this get to about 325 to the wheels? I'm hoping to get to 325 to 350rwhp + a NX shot.

probably will go with an Auto tranny

[This message has been edited by blkpearl (edited 06-26-2010).]

Rember, you cannot go to the REF with Nitrus on your car.