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help fuel pump not priming and shutting of randomly. by matt 84 2m4
Started on: 05-29-2010 07:38 PM
Replies: 9
Last post by: phonedawgz on 05-31-2010 02:00 PM
matt 84 2m4
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Report this Post05-29-2010 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for matt 84 2m4Send a Private Message to matt 84 2m4Direct Link to This Post
hello
im haveing trouble figureing out why my fuel pump is doing this. it will not prime and take forever to start. once it is hot it will shut off at a stop light and will not start again unless i use either.
i have replaced the ecm traced the wires the ecm is not sending a signal to the pump to prime. the relay is working fine i checked that. what else could it be?

this is on a 88 4cyl auto.
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Hudini
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Report this Post05-29-2010 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
"will not prime and takes forever to start" sounds just like a bad relay. How do you know the relay is good?
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IFLYR22
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Report this Post05-29-2010 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IFLYR22Send a Private Message to IFLYR22Direct Link to This Post
Have you checked the wire connector on the firewall? The three wire connector (passenger side of center).

-Dave
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matt 84 2m4
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Report this Post05-29-2010 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for matt 84 2m4Send a Private Message to matt 84 2m4Direct Link to This Post
yeah i checked the relay with six other relays and i also checked the wires the are getting power just no signal from ecm to prime.
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theogre
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Report this Post05-29-2010 10:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreDirect Link to This Post
Bad ECM sound like... or bad relay socket...

You sure bad signal?

ECM switch to 12v for relay. No "signal" to speak of and oil pressure sender is a backup. see wire diag in SM, haynes, etc. see https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107343.html

Signal to injector... Use a Noid light. See my cave, ecm section, more tools.

And read in my cave, ECM heat.
------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-29-2010).]

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CrazyDragn
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Report this Post05-29-2010 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CrazyDragnSend a Private Message to CrazyDragnDirect Link to This Post
Or you coud have a bad pump
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post05-30-2010 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
NOT a bad pump.

There are TWO ways the fuel pump is turned on.

1. The ECM via the relay. The ECM will power the relay for the prime, and also anytime the engine is turning over.

2. The Oil Pressure Gauge. This also can supply voltage to the fuel pump. It is on whenever the engine has oil pressure.

These two ways are redundant to each other. So if one fails, the car still runs on the other. When the ECM/relay side fails, you lose the "prime" shot, so you have to crank the car until the oil pressure builds, and then it fires right off. You might have noticed it takes longer to build the oil pressure when the engine is warm vs cold.

When your worn engine is hot it is pretty much impossible to build enough oil pressure just with cranking I am thinking. Start it on starting fluid, and you then have enough oil pressure to turn on the switch. If by then the engine has cooled enough, it will even idle since the oil is thicker and not making the switch turn off. That is until it gets warm enough to do it again at idle.

Usually when you lose the ECM/Relay link it is because the relay socket gets corroded enough so as not to make good contact with the relay. That is where I would start. If you can read schematics, and use a multimeter, you can see if you are getting the +12v from the ECM to the relay socket. Do you hear the relay clicking? Yes the ECM could be bad also and not supplying the +12 to fire the relay. Also a possibility is the wiring.

One thing you can do as a 'redneck' fix is to send power to the pump via a wire from the ALDL fuel pump pin G connected to +12v

This will make your fuel pump run whenever you supply it voltage



Note - my picture and Hudini's are the same, just upsidedown from each other. I do like his better btw

You have pretty low oil pressure I assume, so much so that sometimes during hot idling that the gauge goes down to the red, correct?

So - clean - and/or replace the socket for the relay. That's my guess.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-30-2010).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post05-30-2010 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
When you say it will not prime does that mean the pump does not run for 2 seconds when the key is turned ON? Or it does run but the pressure will not build? Have you tried putting power to the ALDL connector pin G to see if the pump runs and pressure is normal? Are you out of fuel? (don't laugh it's happened )


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matt 84 2m4
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Report this Post05-31-2010 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for matt 84 2m4Send a Private Message to matt 84 2m4Direct Link to This Post
thanks guys i will try all that stuff. the motor does have low oil when it is warm. so it is normal with this problem for me to come to a red light and with it in gear for it to die?
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post05-31-2010 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by matt 84 2m4:

thanks guys i will try all that stuff. the motor does have low oil when it is warm. so it is normal with this problem for me to come to a red light and with it in gear for it to die?


Actually MOST Fieros have both the ECM/relay AND Oil Pressure Switch working so they don't end up with this problem with a worn engine/low oil pressure. The dieing at red lights is the result of two problems. Fixing the ECM/relay/relay socket problem will mask the low oil pressure killing the car problem. My guess is that you would have lived with the fuel pump running on just the oil pressure switch and having it crank longer, EXECPT now you are having the stalling at red lights problem also.

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