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.....TAP~SHIFT / 4t60e CONVERSION..... by SMTHGT
Started on: 05-03-2010 11:49 PM
Replies: 14
Last post by: MstangsBware on 05-05-2010 12:13 AM
SMTHGT
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Report this Post05-03-2010 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
Is there anyway to convert the 4t60e to tap~shift OR/do I need to go 4t65e...??? I searched but only found a few threads w/ not alot of info... thanks.

------------------
SMTHGT.....
Aka. "SmoothGT"
1987 GT 4.9L~V8~4T60E

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post05-04-2010 03:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SMTHGT:

Is there anyway to convert the 4t60e to tap~shift OR/do I need to go 4t65e...??? I searched but only found a few threads w/ not alot of info... thanks.



There is to a point but it is pretty useless.......
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Tha Driver
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Report this Post05-04-2010 03:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post
Why is it useless??? I plan to do it with my custom car: manual shift without a clutch - what's not to like?
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Crawling on the planet's face,
An insect called the human race.
Lost in time, & lost in space...
and in meaning.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post05-04-2010 03:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

Why is it useless??? I plan to do it with my custom car: manual shift without a clutch - what's not to like?
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Crawling on the planet's face,
An insect called the human race.
Lost in time, & lost in space...
and in meaning.


It will get used a few times then you will never use it much after that. Ask most that have tap shift cars and they will tell you the same thing..Wife's G6 has is and played with it a few times but nothing great about it....
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SMTHGT
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Report this Post05-04-2010 04:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
OK, So if a coversion is possible, whats involved, and what do I need..?? Also, this will be mated to a 4.9L so, I would be using it more than most anyways... Thank you both for the input and opinions.
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Rufus88
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Report this Post05-04-2010 05:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rufus88Send a Private Message to Rufus88Direct Link to This Post
Well, I know, I KNOW that 3900 bones is a LOT of money for a tranny, but I wanted to throw this out there. Paddle shift cars, or should I say, paddle shift high performance cars are still fun because they have as many gears, if not more, than manual vehicles. The transmissions that you are talking about are 4 speeds. Why not six? O.K., 3900 bones! Thats hard for me to swallow too.

But I think that if this tranny would bolt up, it would be AWESOME for this type of application. The GM 6T75. Link here --> http://www.importperformanc...roduct_detail&p=4338 I'm a manual guy myself because it's sorta cheaper, but not really. I'm going to install the F40 6-speed in my Fiero, that means I'll need Archie's kit, so 525 bucks gets the tranny on e-bay, 3300 for Archie's master kit. In total, I'd be spending as much as you once I'm done. You'd get 6 gears forward and it'd be kinda like being behind the wheel of a Ferrari, cough, cough, minus one gear.

Your original question, I'm a manual guy so I don't really know. I'm guessing you'll need a shift kit. I'd think the best bet is to contact the guys over at FastFieros, I know they sell the Twist Machine paddle shifter for $650 and probably anything else you'll need, like something for your computer. Sounds like the difference between the 4T40 and the 4T45 is the hp/tq rating. But with the 6T75 rated at 315hp/300tq, which we all know is a low ball figure, probably will work with anything you throw at it.

One more thing, kinda out there to MstangsBware, that was a G6 with paddle shifting you drove? If it was anything like that new Camaro I drove, that was not real paddle shifting. That was, you can kinda control your shift in a cheap GM kinda way. A real paddle shift car, like a Ferrari or Lambo, the shifts are crisp, clean, and with virtually no lag time. You'd never get a shift denied message, if you wanted to, you could start in 6th gear, the car would do that, probably stall if you didn't have the power. In built for paddle shifting transmission you can even skip shift. To do the conversion right, you have to look at every aspect of it. Will the transmission shift without me telling it to, in other words, will it continue to act like an automatic transmission. If it does, then that needs to be fixed, it's only fun if you are in control. With that Camaro I drove, those paddles were just for looks, and yeah, no wonder you don't use them on your G6.

[This message has been edited by Rufus88 (edited 05-04-2010).]

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SMTHGT
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Report this Post05-04-2010 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
Ok... I am still unclear whether or not the 4t60e CAN or CAN NOT be converted to paddle~shift..??? I am just looking for a yes/no.. thanks
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Tha Driver
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Report this Post05-04-2010 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


It will get used a few times then you will never use it much after that. Ask most that have tap shift cars and they will tell you the same thing..Wife's G6 has is and played with it a few times but nothing great about it....

Well I plan to hook mine up so that you HAVE to shift. Drop it in "D", hit the paddles to upshift or downshift.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Free your mind and your ass will follow. (Funkadelic)
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Tha Driver
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Report this Post05-04-2010 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

Tha Driver

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Member since Sep 2006
 
quote
Originally posted by SMTHGT:

Ok... I am still unclear whether or not the 4t60e CAN or CAN NOT be converted to paddle~shift..??? I am just looking for a yes/no.. thanks

Yes it can be done I was talking to folks here about making a controller but it's been a while (still waiting for my 3800 SC to be delivered). I think Ryan can do it - but I'm not sure if that's his username too.
Basically all you have are two wires to change gears. It's some sequence like open for 1st, power to one for second, power to the other for third, power to both for fourth.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Carpe' kitty!

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 05-04-2010).]

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joshua riedl
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Report this Post05-04-2010 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlDirect Link to This Post
I programmed a smart relay to run the shift solenoids. Pretty simple. I also ran the tcc through the smart relay to disengage the tcc when shifting. Only run on the bench so far. Hopefully in the next month I'll have it running. I had someone post the diagrams for this in another thread if you choose to go this route.
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MountainHiBlue87GT
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Report this Post05-04-2010 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MountainHiBlue87GTSend a Private Message to MountainHiBlue87GTDirect Link to This Post
You havee to have a tapshift transmission and matching tapshift computer. The tap shift transmission contains different solinoids.

We used a 2004 Series III tapshift computer and tapshift trans in our Series III swap.

Regards,

David
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Report this Post05-04-2010 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
There once was a 4.9 with a tap shift 4t60E. Let me see if I can find the page again. It was not on this forum that I recall...

EDIT: No luck. The site has been closed permanently. Another piece of info that may be lost forever.

I did however find a company that make kits to do just this...
http://www.twistmachine.com/shopping/
Not cheap but may point you in the right direction. Best of luck.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-04-2010).]

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SMTHGT
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Report this Post05-04-2010 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys so it looks like it xan be done w/ the 4t60e... It might be easier for me to go w/ the 4t65e... Everyone save this thread..
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Report this Post05-04-2010 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
PCM input and outputs for transmission control. For the 4T60e straight from the 92-93 4.9 caddy service manual...(may vary for other cars)

PCM inputs:
VSS - speed sensor
TPS - throttle position
CTS - Coolant temp
PRNDL switch - gear select
Brake switch - <<<
Cruise Control switch - Cruise brake switch
MAP (4.9 only) - Manifold pressure
EST - Electronic spark timing

PCM Outputs:
Shift solenoid A
Shift solenoid B
VCC/Solenoid
PWM (MOD) Solenoid

Solenoid----------------------------Gear----------------
-------------------1st------2nd-------3rd-----4th
Solenoid A---------on-------off---------off------on
Solenoid B---------on-------on---------off------off
VCC-------------------off-------off---------on*-----on*
VCC MOD (PWM)-off-------off---------on**----on**

* ON if engine is warm and conditions necissary to command converter clutch are satisfied.

** Flickers ON and OFF when converter clutch is aplied, then turns off shortly after apply or release.

Maybe useless maybe not....

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-04-2010).]

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post05-05-2010 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MountainHiBlue87GT:

You havee to have a tapshift transmission and matching tapshift computer. The tap shift transmission contains different solinoids.

We used a 2004 Series III tapshift computer and tapshift trans in our Series III swap.

Regards,

David


Not true---you don't have to have the parts listed above. There are controllers that can be used to make this happen. This one will work and was designed by the guy to run a 60E in his Fiero...

http://e-transcontrol.com/mcu-0806.htm

Not cheap but cheaper than others......

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