I was driving to work this morning, put my foot on the clutch at a light, and had good pressure until about 50% of the way down, then it all of a sudden "popped" straight down. Car has NO clutch pressure now, and can't be put in gear. My boyfriend helped me bleed the clutch tonight, but kept just getting air out of the bleed screw. We ran almost two bottles of fluid through until new, clear fluid was coming out the other side. Still no pressure, and still getting air bubbles. Is it common to have a hole in a clutch line somewhere? There were no leaks under the car, even after sitting for 6 hours. WTF. This car hates me.

The car doesn't hate you.
She's just getting up there in years and needs some TLC.

But, as for ideas, if your Master Cylinder has failed then it could be pumping air into the system along w/ the fluid.
Another idea, though it seems to me less likely: the slave cylinder failed and lost seal, but it still keeps some seal; when you bleed the system some air still escapes into the slave so that you always get a bit of air.
Both of these scenarios don't necessitate leaking

Good luck fixing it up.
-Fierology


And, when you go to bleed it, here's a nice, detailed, and concise bleeding procedure, should you find you need it.
from the v8 archie web site:

Clutch bleeding prodedure
You can do it your way, But this method always works for me.
After checking to be sure there are no leaks in the Clutch Hydraulic system.
Complete ALL of the following steps before test driving the car:
1) Install a helper in the drivers seat to push in and let out the clutch pedal on command.
2) Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder reservoir.
3) Top off fluid in the reservoir.
4) During the course of this procedure DO NOT allow the "helper" to "pump" the pedal. The "helper" is to depress and release the pedal on command only, DO NOT PUMP THE PEDAL. (See theory below)
5) You will be opening and closing the bleed screw on the slave cylinder as instructed below. CAUTION: During this procedure protect your eyes from squirting brake fluid.
6) (Helper) Press clutch pedal in fully and hold.
7) (You) Open the bleed screw to allow fluid to escape.
8) (You) Close bleed screw.
9) (Helper) Release pedal completely
10) (You) Top off fluid in reservoir.
11) Repeat steps #6 thru #10 no less than 5 times before going to #12 below. NO PUMPING!
12) You have now bled the Master Cylinder and the hydraulic line. YOU ARE NOT DONE YET!!!!! We must now bleed the Slave cylinder. (This is what the manual doesn’t tell you)
13) With no further action to be done with the clutch pedal, you can no remove the "helper" from the drivers seat and have him (her/it) help you do the following.
14) After topping off the Master Cylinder, completely remove the bleed screw from the slave cylinder.
15) Have the "helper" stand at the ready with the bleed screw and the appropriate wrench for installing the bleed screw.
16) PROTECT YOUR EYES!
17) With the bleed screw removed. With both hands grab the push rod coming out of the slave cylinder and push it into the slave cylinder as far as it will go AND HOLD it in.
18) Your "helper" will now install and tighten the bleed screw while you hold the plunger in.
19) When bleed screw is tight release the rod and as it comes out guide it into the proper position on the clutch arm.
20) Top off the Reservoir and the job is complete.

With the clutch pedal down, when the bleeder screw was openned, the fluid would come out with no small bubbles, followed by a large pocket of air every time. Even after new clean brake fluid was visible in the bleed hose. So it looks like it's sucking air in somewhere else.

------------------

quote Originally posted by domesticgal: With the clutch pedal down, when the bleeder screw was openned, the fluid would come out with no small bubbles, followed by a large pocket of air every time. Even after new clean brake fluid was visible in the bleed hose. So it looks like it's sucking air in somewhere else.

Check your master cylinder and slave cylinder. A good dead give away that the master cylinder is if theres a puddle of clutch fluid on the floor under the carpet. as for the slave see if its leaking aout around the boot. What transmission do you have?

If it's leaking under the carpet I highly recommend removing the driver's seat and carpet. It's really not too big a project, and that brake fluid can destroy paint. Our powercoat does a much better job against brake fluid than most (if not all) other paints, but brake fluid can still lead to rust, as far as I know. If someone knows otherwise, please chime in.

All the best,
Michael

I have the 4 speed, in an 86 V6

I dont think it's leaking under the carpet, we put through a lot of fluid and didn't notice any wetness or smell of brake fluid inside the car but the car isn't here, we had to leave it at my boyfriends work so I can't check right now. It's definitely not leaking around the slave boot.

The MC could be leaking internally, letting air in, w/o letting fluid out. This would explain no clutch pressure, bubbles in fluid, and no obvious leaking.
Also, be sure to only do one pump per bleeding cycle. There's not enough fluid in the reservoir to do more than one pump w/o risking getting air in the system.

This thread may shed some light on your situation. It's about someone else's clutch gremlin: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/104508.html

-Michael

I got into my car about a month ago and started her up and when I went to get it into gear the clutch made a popping noise and no longer worked. I replaced the clutch itself and upon inspection two pieces of the pressure plate had actually come apart(where the pressure plate springs are held into place with rivets)the rivets popped apart(old clutch) I put it back together with the new clutch and It has pressure again. hopefully thats not your problem(doing the clutch takes awhile) hope it helps.

------------------
proud owner of an 86 fiero se 2.8 v6 4 spd. it helps that it was free

Oh, concerning Matt's idea:
You can check this pretty easily. Have someone depress the clutch pedal while you look at the slave cylinder push rod and see how far it extends. Measure it, and compare it to the proper specs. If it's a hydraulic problem, then it will not be extending enough. If there is no hydraulic problem, then your push rod will extend all the way. My guess is it's a hydraulic problem.

Slave cylinder is on driver's side, near firewall, bolted to the tranny.

All the best,
Michael

The slave seemed to be moving fine. Ordered a new master cyl, will update later tonight after we swap it. This is the 6th or 7th time I've had to do the master in the 6 years I've owned the car!!!

------------------

As far as I know, Fiero MC's are not supposed to shoot geysers into the air. One sign of a failed MC (though not definite) would be if it shoots a stream of brake fluid up when you press down the pedal. The fluid should become slightly agitated in the reservoir, but it shouldn't shoot up very far, to the best of my knowledge.
It's a bit messy, but you can check this very easily by taking off the MC cover and having someone press down the pedal. Be sure your head is not above it as you might get it in your eyes (happened in my garage just like that). You'll also want to lay down some newspapers around the MC to reduce the possible mess. If you do this, be sure to wipe off the cover first, as you don't want junk/dust in the system.
You'll want to double-check the geyser thing, but I believe MC's are not supposed to do that.

-Michael

No geysers happening. I really have no idea what the heck is wrong with this car. I'm getting quite fed up and am very close to just parting it out

Order the MR2 piston right away and put that in before you start trying to bleed it. It's cheap ($15ish) and if your not leaking there now, you will be before too long. My 85 would suck air in past the slave seal. I never lost fluid at the slave cylinder, just sucked air in.

http://gafieroclub.org/bbs/index.php?topic=66.0

--
http://reddevilriver.com

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-17-2011).]

look under your dash, you will see a rod connected too your clutch pedal.. Examine the area around the rod and see if there are any wetspots.. If not, look at where the rod goes through your floor panel into the front compartment.. You will see a little black rubber boot attached.. Use your fingers too "smoosh" the boot around, and see if any liquid is present.. If everything is dry, pop the front hood and take a look at the master cylinder and see if there are any leaks anywhere.. Even if you find no leaks, it could still be the master cylinder has gone bad..

Then go too the engine compartment, and look at the slave cylinder.. The slave also has a rod going into it.. With a rubber boot at the end.. You can compress the rod into the cylinder and see if any liquid comes out from the rod, or the rubber boot.. Also check the fluid feed line on the bottom of the slave, its a steel braided flex line.. Check too see if that leaks. Finally check the bleeder cap on the slave too see if thats leaking..

If nothing is leaking, and your still getting air in the system, chances are you have a busted internal seal in one of them.. The "wise" thing to do is too replace both the master and the slave cylinders.. Then your clutch hydrolics will be all new.. (i seriously doubt the clutch fluid hard line is leaking, especially if you see nothing leaking from under the car.) Even if you discover that only one of the cylinders is bad, its always a good idea to replace both at the same time, cause if one fails, the other wont be far behind.

Replaceing both the master and slave cylinders isnt expensive. (master about $100, Slave about $60 - $80) and the work to swap them out is very very easy.. I would recommend a new Master from the Fiero store, and a new slave from Rodney Dickman.. His slaves are better designed, and work great. So for about $200, and maby 2 hours work, you will have a all new clutch system.. Its well worth it.

Master Cylinder

Rodneys Slave Cylinder

After you install them, the easiest and most effective way to bleed your clutch is to not pump it at all.. Just gravity bleed it.. Get your car on an incline, or if you cant, just jack the front of the car up about a foot off the ground.. Fill the master cylinder with DOT3 brake fluid, then open the bleeder on the slave cylinder and just let it ooze out.. Keep an eye on the master cylinder, cause it will drain quite quickly.. After you drain and fill the master about 5 or 6 times, you should be good too go..

Make sure before you install them, bench bleed the master first, then install it.. When you install the slave, make sure to fully compress the rod into the piston first.. Have the bleeder cap on tight, and start putting pressure on the slave rod, then open the bleeder to let all the air out of the slave, then tighten the bleeder again.. Then install, and bleed the system.

Hope this helps.. Good luck, its an easy and inexpensive fix..

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 05-03-2010).]

Will gravity bleeding bleed the slave too? From the instructions supposedly from Archie, the slave will still have air in it if it's not bled independently.

-Michael

Gravity bleeding alone wont get all the air out of the slave.. After the master has been bench bled, and installed. Hook the flex line up to the new slave, but done bolt it up yet.. Bleed the slave first.. first put pressure on the slave rod, then have a friend open the bleeder, and push the slave rod all the way in untill it bottoms out, then quickly close the bleeder, and let the rod fully come back out on its own.. When your pushing in the rod, dont be afraid to put some muscle into it.. It doesnt go in easy, and when you do bottom it out, dont stop pushing untill the bleeder valve has been shut.. Then check the master to make sure its not too low.. You can nearly empty it with just one "pump" of the slave. I recommend doing that with the slave at least 3 times.. Once is usually enough, but if you get two nice smooth streams out in a row with no bubbles, then you know for sure your good.. Then slide the slave rod into its hole, and bolt it back up.. Then jack the front of the car up about a foot, so the master is higher than the slave, and gravity bleed the whole system untill you have filled the master 5 or 6 times.. Then you should be good too go..


Oh, and of course make sure you have pleanty of towels or rags all around your slave when bleeding.. Dont do what i did and squirt brake fluid everywhere, lol.. And make sure before you test drive the car that you WASH YOUR HANDS! lol.. that stuff will eat your paint right off..

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 05-05-2010).]