In Australia engine swaps in fieros all seem to be done with older commodore engines usually VP Commodore perhaps they are older conversions but they are not the biggest power choice 170hp. The new commodre boasts of 210kw 280hp some big numbers from sidi 3600sc motor. Is this motor achiveable in the fiero? I am lead to believe the alternator is in the wrong spot on newer commodores so nobody fitted them but i want power and wondering if the options have changed or other facts i don't know. What sort of power do the USA 3600sc or 3800sc engines make? I could crate and engine to Australia i know Ausfiero did but wondering if there were other local options? I am sure i started a similar thread many years ago but i would like to put some thought into what i want and what i can have.

Not aware of a 3600 SC in the U.S. yet but the 3800SC is about 280 hp depending on the year I believe. darkhorizon has his turbo setup for sale in the mall that's good for quite a bit more than 280 hp if you're okay with removing part of your trunk. Otherwise a power adder on top of the 170 hp engines you have access to is a good way to increase the performance.

The holden guys used both L67 and L36 3800's. The supercharged ones were used in the monaros, and make about 280HP, while the NA motors found in the base model comadors make about 210HP.

Both of these motors would be an easy swap overall. The alternator relocation and such, is typically fairly easy no matter what style motor you are dealing with. The transmission options are going to be the same as if you were in the states as well, although you would have to import some PCMs / wiring / tuning equipment in some cases.

Is 280 for the 3800SC after some mods. The series III is rated at 260 and the series II is 240 stock. Maybe the stock ratings are just conservative?

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RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto
White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd
1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader
20Ft H&H Tilt Bed Trailer

[This message has been edited by RickN (edited 12-18-2009).]

I think the highest HP 3.6L is the 303 HP Direct Injection engine in the CTS (it's used somewhere else I can't remember). I don't know if a transverse version is used yet.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 12-18-2009).]

Darkhorizon is a 3800 fanboy, and that is why the numbers are inaccurate. He knows his stuff most of the time, though.

280 isn't TOO difficult to achieve with a 3800, but it's not free and it's not there without modification.

3800's are just expensive to make go fast LIKE ANYTHING ELSE.

If I did a 3800, I'd do a 3800 N/A and not mod it at all. It would last until hell froze over and get awesome gas mileage. The 200-215 HP it provides is enough for most people, too. Also remember, if you do a 3800 SC (Supercharged), you will have to use premium fuel, which is an extra cost most people don't consider. Accounts for about 2 American dollars extra whenever you fill up to get premium.

There's my 3 cents.

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86 GT with C&C T-Tops - 4.9l V8

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The holden guys used both L67 and L36 3800's. The supercharged ones were used in the monaros, and make about 280HP, while the NA motors found in the base model comadors make about 210HP. Both of these motors would be an easy swap overall. The alternator relocation and such, is typically fairly easy no matter what style motor you are dealing with. The transmission options are going to be the same as if you were in the states as well, although you would have to import some PCMs / wiring / tuning equipment in some cases.

I actually sold new Holden in 97 and am aware what models came with a sc fitted eg VT calais had series IIsc. My question is why aren;t these in Australian fieros i am not a mechanic so asking where they fitted things if they used an Aussie engine. There are no threads PFF member Proff had commodore engine but opted back to the original i am sure it was a vp engine or something. Who has a series 2 or 3 aussie 3800sc or is considering a sidi 3600sc?

quote Originally posted by MadDanceSkillz: Darkhorizon is a 3800 fanboy, and that is why the numbers are inaccurate. He knows his stuff most of the time, though. 280 isn't TOO difficult to achieve with a 3800, but it's not free and it's not there without modification. 3800's are just expensive to make go fast LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. If I did a 3800, I'd do a 3800 N/A and not mod it at all. It would last until hell froze over and get awesome gas mileage. The 200-215 HP it provides is enough for most people, too. Also remember, if you do a 3800 SC (Supercharged), you will have to use premium fuel, which is an extra cost most people don't consider. Accounts for about 2 American dollars extra whenever you fill up to get premium. There's my 3 cents.

Wow, you must build, dyno, race, and tune 3800s alot more than i do.

Didn't say that.

Show us a 3800SC Series II OR III that makes 280HP all stock and I'll retract my statement. I know you know what you're talking about a lot of the time, but let's face it, the 3800 simply does not make 280HP without modification.

quote Originally posted by MadDanceSkillz: Darkhorizon is a 3800 fanboy, and that is why the numbers are inaccurate. He knows his stuff most of the time, though. 280 isn't TOO difficult to achieve with a 3800, but it's not free and it's not there without modification. 3800's are just expensive to make go fast LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. If I did a 3800, I'd do a 3800 N/A and not mod it at all. It would last until hell froze over and get awesome gas mileage. The 200-215 HP it provides is enough for most people, too. Also remember, if you do a 3800 SC (Supercharged), you will have to use premium fuel, which is an extra cost most people don't consider. Accounts for about 2 American dollars extra whenever you fill up to get premium. There's my 3 cents.

Really? Expensive to make fast? Maybe you could elaborate on that.

As far as the 280 HP, with the exhaust and intake modifications needed to make the engine work in a fiero, and a $30 3.4" pulley you're already there (at the crank). You also DO NOT have to run premium fuel if you know how to tune, and aren't running too much pulley for your mods. Check out gmv6pcm.com and look up JerryH, he runs 13.5's@105 and gets 39 MPG (highway) in a GTP with 87 octane.

A heavily modded L67 will last just as long as a stock L36 so long as you keep it fueled and don't start going ridiculously small with the pullies.

Australian,
g'day mate how the hell are ya?

Alan Mc Leland up here in QLD runs a series I 3800 naturally aspirated.
He's had to modify a lot, including casting the intake plenum and having it
machined, changing the sump to fit, adaptor plate to trans, pulleys and a whole host of issues.

It's got custom headers (wrapped to control heat) and a pretty agressive cam.
I have driven his car - it pulls, and unless you're going to be racing, it should
get you off the line quicker than a Commodore 5.7 at the lights. I think he's talking about
changing to a 4T60 tranny, I think it's just such a good idea too.

You probably should talk to Alan about the brake upgrade he's sorted out.
Internals are all Australian sourced.
First thing I decided to do before I wanted my Fiero to go faster was to stop and corner
better. I am very much onto that, with upgraded brakes, Konis, rear anti-sway bar and Intech springs.

I have had my 2.8 boat anchor rebuilt by Alan 5 years ago, so I think I'll be investing my $$ and letting it
make more while I get some usage out of my motor. However, in a few years I might do some
research into either:

a) Toyota Aurion 3.5l with 6spd Auto (U660E automatic transmission) - 200 kilowatts (270 hp) of
power and 336 newton metres (248 ft·lbf) of torque
+ TRD supercharged them to produce 241 kilowatts (323 hp) and 400 newton metres (295 ft·lbf)
of power and torque respectively, and have a combined fuel economy of 10.9 L/100 km (21.6 mpg-US)
in a bigger, heavier car.

b) Australian made alloy 2.8 turbo with 280 Hp (for Saab 9-3) and the AF40-6 auto 6spd transmission.

I would hope (fingers crossed) that the 2.8 developed for Saab exclusively will probably be found in North American cars
in the near future.

BANG for buck - go the 3800sc if your state will allow such a thing, it's been done so many times, there's tech support
(hehehe almost) and you can go buy the bits online for everything you need to do it. There's more how to's on a 3800sc
swap in a Fiero than you could poke a stick at. I'd bet it's cheaper to import an engine + trans from USA (with the AUD$
so high) get it sent over in a container. That's how I got all my goodies sent over.

Good luck with the engine swap, I'd love to see a post or flick me an email.

BTW. I have simmons 17" rims that came off a WRX - yep same bolt pattern and offset is damned close 10mm (the centre bore
I had machined)

[This message has been edited by Rixthetrick (edited 12-19-2009).]

The RWD exhaust and intake is actually SIGNIFICANTLY less restrictive, tuning was bumped a bit due to relaxed emissions, which resulted in the numbers I quoted. They also run a 3.7 pulley on the aus spec blowers.

But, I dont know what I am talking about.

darkhorizon,
I think you've got more than a clue.

Lookie what I found on the Yella Terra website:

Yella Terra is pleased to announce the release of a Terra Charger power upgrade kit for the popular VS VT and VX supercharged V6 Commodore range. The kit replaces the front end of the factory fitted supercharger to deliver more boost and provide big increases in power and torque without sacrificing derivability or reliability.

The kit can be fitted in less than two hours and contains everything the installer needs: Supercharger gear case, alloy extension housing, anodized alloy top pulley, oversize idler pulley, exchange memcal, tube of silicon sealer, bottle of gear oil and GM original supercharger gasket.

The Yella Terra upgrade kit represents a very cheap power increase. On a stock standard VT Calais automatic, maximum rear wheel power is increased from 112kw to 140kw as shown below. Even more impressive is the lift in torque, up to 50% over a very wide rev range. The computer program supplied is totally smooth throughout the range and gives instant throttle response unlike the original.

But it'd be much wiser to use a FWD 3800sc than to fully re-engineer a RWD Aussie supplied one
- what you lose in freight, you'd more than make up for not having to modify the engine. IMO

quote But it'd be much wiser to use a FWD 3800sc than to fully re-engineer a RWD Aussie supplied one - what you lose in freight, you'd more than make up for not having to modify the engine. IMO

That is fairly false for the most part... you still need to modify the assessory drive on the FWD motors.

quote Originally posted by Rixthetrick: Australian, g'day mate how the hell are ya? Good luck with the engine swap, I'd love to see a post or flick me an email.

Well with that thought of importing i should import a 4.9 as i believe you can't double the cc of the engine for rego in NSW so anything up to 5.6litrs only.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: That is fairly false for the most part... you still need to modify the assessory drive on the FWD motors.

I am guessing modifications from an Aust spec later Gen 3.8 RWD
to run on a FWD would require modification of the :

sump,
intake manifold / plenum (modification laws are quite particular and vary from state to state),
oil filter holder;
as well as the modifications that a FWD 3800 would require on top of that to be Fiero installed.

Hell, I'd love to be completely wrong on this - I'd rather be wrong and able to do it
myself also.

[This message has been edited by Rixthetrick (edited 12-20-2009).]

Given what I know about how the camaros are setup, I would assign the probability of them being a problem as follows.

sump = 25% chance it interferes, but the same pan is used on the RWD's here in the states, so assuming that it is at least close, it will work. Out of the few different oil pans available here, they all fit without any issues in a fiero, as there nothing that would ever get in the way of the oil pan.

intake manifold / plenum (modification laws are quite particular and vary from state to state).= Should not be a problem, but I would gladly pay shipping to trade out for a FWD blower from the states. The opening would just be in an odd spot, but it wouldnt really hit anything significant. So this is NOT a problem at all. This would also solve the issue of other parts you may need from the states.

oil filter holder; = This is the preferred filter in the states, so I would bet that this would not be an issue at all.

as well as the modifications that a FWD 3800 would require on top of that to be Fiero installed. = There really are no "major" mods required, other than a few mounting brackets.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Wow, you must build, dyno, race, and tune 3800s alot more than i do.

ohh come on now DH, he wasn't taking chops at you bro..."fanboy" wasn't meant in a derogatory way there, he was just saying what an avid user you are in the 3800 arena...i personally have a respect for your knowledge and experience, im sure mad danceskillz does too

Bump for Aussies with better motors just sent you a pm rick.

The motor that interests me the most would be a manual commodore VT series II SC and take the brakes and the motor from a car with a manual gearbox with computer. Put a higher output supercharger on chip it.

So modify sump what else...Who has this as it is this motor that interests me. Power in a VT is 171kw 229hp stock.

Thought i would bump this thread in case any Aussies had input keen to see fieros here with 3800's from something other than a VN commodore.

The problem from what I've gathered talking to AusFiero, looking at Ecotecs/Series II 3800s and so on is that the Holden supplied intake manifolds on the Series II won't work with the Fiero because of the Commodore's right-angle throttle body... it points at our firewall.

With the Series I from the VN/VP, that was a removable part. On my old VN 3800 swap, I plasma cut a pair of 6mm flanges to suit the manifold and throttle body, and TIG'd a piece of pipe between to attach vacuum lines etc onto and to set the throttle body directly out the back to suit. However on the Series II, it's cast right angled and makes life kinda horrible. The generally accepted solution is to use the US FWD intake setups seemingly - you could probably just import the intake components, would be cheaper than a whole engine!

And yeah - the alternators are high mounted on the Series II.

Otherwise, the only thing that holds most Series II swaps back on our side of the planet is the electronics. I helped with an Ecotec into VR ute swap not that long ago and finding the right combinations of ECM/BCM/Transponders etc was a real mongrel of a job. Would be nice to go straight to standalone to get around that kind of dilemma.

The Alloytec/HFV6 would make for a pearler powerplant for a Fiero - 190kW and all alloy sounds bloody fantastic. If only we knew what the bellhousing pattern looked like!

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Holden intakes are a favorite here in the states. One of us will gladly exchange a driver side facing intake for one.

Same goes for the front facing blowers usually.

quote Originally posted by Rixthetrick: I would hope (fingers crossed) that the 2.8 developed for Saab exclusively will probably be found in North American cars in the near future.

Has been since '07.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Holden intakes are a favorite here in the states. One of us will gladly exchange a driver side facing intake for one. Same goes for the front facing blowers usually.

Agreed, I've been looking for an Aussie Series II supercharger housing for a project I've been contemplating. It needs the throttlebody to be at an angle due to firewall cleareance I have with a straight one. As you say, I would gladly trade! -Jason

quote Originally posted by Will: There's fragmented bellhousing pattern info here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/084103.html

I'm more interested in what bellhousing GMH use locally - the Alloytec is getting relatively plentiful here but will be some form of RWD bell of course. Just seriously curious about if GMH have recycled bell patterns with 3800 - after all, they also cast the 308 V8 with two different patterns to suit different transmission options.

For those who want manifolds from local, maybe you should talk to Australian?

From what I saw on my build though, the right-angle is a pure pain in the chuff... without some insane plumbing, it didn't look like it'd work in a Fiero application very easily at all.

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quote Originally posted by Carcenomy: Hey Australian, I was thinking about that earlier... why don't you skip the sixes and build your car up with a 308? Huge local aftermarket, available with a SBC bell pattern so you could use any V8 adapter (Archie's even?) and available with EFI or carburetted... can make serious power too. I'd do it myself except the cost of building a 308 here is roughly double what it costs in Australia

Now you have me thinking 308 as 5 litres and if lucky i might find something stroked that is swapping in a 350 perhaps a commodore upgrade and onsell to me i shall perhaps consider this route.